CaP Revision - Syclant: Part 2: Stat Revision Submissions

[TAY]

[U][B]             Stats        Movepool        Ability
[/B][/U]yes...........33............31..............06
no............05............05..............24
abs...........02............04..............10

Since Stats won the previous poll with over 50% approval, I will now be taking submissions for how we should lower Syclant's stats. Please make your submissions easy to read and understand; and I would like everyone to bold their submissions as well. Out of the submissions I will pick a handful to be voted on in the next poll. Discussion is obviously encouraged.

I would like to remind everyone that, as per the process suggested by Eric the Espeon, after we make the stat changes we will once again vote to see if movepool/ability should be changed. I realize this is tedious (probably better than anyone, since I make the OP's), but I feel that it is the best choice in terms of both quality and time.

Syclant Reference: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...18&postcount=3

Thanks guys!


Syclant:

70 HP / 116 Attack / 70 Defense / 114 Sp. Attack / 65 Sp. Defense / 121 Speed
Total Base Stats = 555

Physical Sweepines 188
Rank 6: Amazing
Physical Tankiness 89
Rank -1: Below Average
Special Sweepines 185
Rank 6: Amazing
Special Tankiness 83
Rank -2: Moderately bad

Offensive/Defensive Balence: 41 Extreme bias to Offence
Physical/Special Balence: 4.9 No bias

Overall Rating: 593
Fantastic

 

[Hyra]

70/ 116/ 70/ 114/ 64/ 120

Might as well post that, although speed is most likely going to drop to 115.

 

[eric the espeon]

You may want to put Syclant's full stat info in the OP for reference.

70 HP / 116 Attack / 70 Defense / 114 Sp. Attack / 65 Sp. Defense / 121 Speed
Total Base Stats = 555

Physical Sweepines 188
Rank 6: Amazing
Physical Tankiness 89
Rank -1: Below Average
Special Sweepines 185
Rank 6: Amazing
Special Tankiness 83
Rank -2: Moderately bad

Offensive/Defensive Balence: 41 Extreme bias to Offence
Physical/Special Balence: 4.9 No bias

Overall Rating: 593
Fantastic (Like Cressey, Garchomp and the all Base 100's)

And my suggestion is
70 / 116 / 70 / 114 / 64 / 115

Edit: Fixed Tekken.

 

[TekkenStorm]

You may want to put Syclant's full stat info in the OP for reference.

70 HP / 116 Attack / 70 Defense / 114 Sp. Attack / 165 Sp. Defense / 121 Speed
Total Base Stats = 555

Physical Sweepines 188
Rank 6: Amazing
Physical Tankiness 89
Rank -1: Below Average
Special Sweepines 185
Rank 6: Amazing
Special Tankiness 83
Rank -2: Moderately bad

Offensive/Defensive Balence: 41 Extreme bias to Offence
Physical/Special Balence: 4.9 No bias

Overall Rating: 593
Fantastic (Like Cressey, Garchomp and the all Base 100's)

And my suggestion is
70 / 116 / 70 / 114 / 64 / 115

165 Special Defence? i thought it was 64 :/

 

[X-Act]

I agree with eric the espeon's stat spread. Maybe make SpD from 64 to 65 so that the base stat total is 550 instead of 549?

 

[eric the espeon]

mm.. Should we be changing the other Stats?
If yes then we could vote on each change separately (So a Bold Vote with What the speed should be, that the Defence should be, what...).

 

[Darkflagrance]

Maybe we should decide on a new overall rating for Syclant, then modify its stats to fit it?

 

[TAY]

This should be a change which does not affect Syclant's role in the metagame. We only want to make it worse at what it already does. An overall rating poll would be time consuming and likely would get us nowhere.

You can change whatever stats you want, Eric, but any stat spread that I feel will change Syclant's role in the metagame will not make it to the second poll. (Just to be clear, if you increase the SpDef by 1 point yours will still get picked).

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Well, considering this bitch has Tail Glow AND Swords Dance, why don't we tone the offensive stats a little... You know, pretty much like Infernape...

Take that, Syclant. Now, you're still faster than a whole Speed tier (Starmie, Raikou, Ambipom, Floatzel, Persian, Azelf), but have almost as much offense as Infernape. And now you are almost as bulky as... Scyther, which is bulkier than Infernape! But Infernape doesn't have two 4x weaks and 4x weak to Stealth Rock! So, you still suck to take hits! Isn't it amazing.

Not only that, but it still keeps its BST, which I find to be something important. For no reason -__-

Unless somebody tell me 20 more points in both defenses actually does make Syclant survive something it couldn't before, this is my final spread:

HP: 69 / Attack: 106 / Defense: 79 / Sp. Attack: 106 / Sp. Defense: 79 / Speed: 116

69 / 106 / 79 / 106 / 79 / 116

 

[eric the espeon]

Right I am adding 1 point to the SpD to give it a nice even BST of 550.

Here is full info

The drop in speed lets Dugtrio, Modest Scarftran, and Alakazam revenge kill it reliably and gives the base 115's have a fighting chance.
It has the added bonus of letting Pokemon who aim to get a Dragon Dance from 242+ speed beat it after one DD. This includes DDGyra, DDTar who can both 1KO with Stone Edge and both avoid being 1KOd by an unboosted Syclant.
The overall rating now fits in with Dragonite, Entei, Blissey, Tyranitar, Suicune, Metagross, Snorlax and co.



Also I am sorry to say this but Arael I really, really hate your spread.
Dropping almost 10 points from both attacks as well as 5 speed (but letting it keep its own speed tier....) is uncalled for.
You compare it to Infernape, but Infernape has much stronger STAB moves (Ant has blizzard, but that ether needs a LOT of team support or is highly unreliable) and its STABs are much harder to resist.
Also there is no reason why this should not be more powerful offensively than 'nape.

Also... We voted Syclant to be a glass cannon, and yet you moved 26 points from its offensive stats to its defensive ones...

We should change how Syclant works as little as possible, just reduce its prowess so that OU can handle it.

 

[ParadOxymoron]

I think that -6 Speed, +1 Special Defense is really what's called for.

 

[omgthatkid]

Well, I really feel Syclant should be "normalized."
I also think that Syclant is primarily a special attacker rather than a physical one, as shown.
So I'd support a change like:

70/110/70/120/65/115
Capitalizing on special power instead of physical as its stats reflected before.
Physical Sweepiness: 174 Rank 6: Amazing
Special Sweepiness: 89 Rank -1: Below Average
Physical Tankiness: 191 Rank 7: Amazing
Special Tankiness: 84 Rank -1: Below Average
Offensive/Defensive Balance: 41.9 Extreme Bias to Offense
Physical/Special Balance: -2 No Bias
Overall Rating: 555 Excellent.

But...the drop to 115 isn't really a significant one.
Hmmm.

 

[tennisace]

Right I am adding 1 point to the SpD to give it a nice even BST of 550.

Here is full info

The drop in speed lets Dugtrio, Modest Scarftran, and Alakazam revenge kill it reliably and gives the base 115's have a fighting chance.
It has the added bonus of letting Pokemon who aim to get a Dragon Dance from 242+ speed beat it after one DD. This includes DDGyra, DDTar who can both 1KO with Stone Edge and both avoid being 1KOd by an unboosted Syclant.
The overall rating now fits in with Dragonite, Entei, Blissey, Tyranitar, Suicune, Metagross, Snorlax and co.



Also I am sorry to say this but Arael I really, really hate your spread.
Dropping almost 10 points from both attacks as well as 5 speed (but letting it keep its own speed tier....) is uncalled for.
You compare it to Infernape, but Infernape has much stronger STAB moves (Ant has blizzard, but that ether needs a LOT of team support or is highly unreliable) and its STABs are much harder to resist.
Also there is no reason why this should not be more powerful offensively than 'nape.

Also... We voted Syclant to be a glass cannon, and yet you moved 26 points from its offensive stats to its defensive ones...

We should change how Syclant works as little as possible, just reduce its prowess so that OU can handle it.

Again, we all knew this was coming. I support this spread.

 

[TAY]

Sorry for the delay in getting the next thread up; I have had some stuff to deal with in real life that demanded attention (mostly relating to school starting).

I will be posting the new threads late tonight.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Also I am sorry to say this but Arael I really, really hate your spread.
Dropping almost 10 points from both attacks as well as 5 speed (but letting it keep its own speed tier....) is uncalled for.
You compare it to Infernape, but Infernape has much stronger STAB moves (Ant has blizzard, but that ether needs a LOT of team support or is highly unreliable) and its STABs are much harder to resist.
Also there is no reason why this should not be more powerful offensively than 'nape.

So, the only thing we're going to do is reduce its Speed? If so, wouldn't it have been easier if we had just had a voting for "reduce Syclant's speed to 115 y/n"?

And no, there is no reason it shouldn't be stronger than Infernape. But there isn't a reason for it to be stronger either. Infernape has stronger STAB moves and defensive typing, but it's compensated by Syclant's sheer power, Speed and movepool. I do see where you're coming from with my changes, though. Maybe Syclant is too overpowered. Actually, the community has decided it is. But what could it be, movepool, or stats? I believe it's the stats, and that's why I've reduced the offenses. If we do it, it gets closer to Infernape than to Deoxys-A. Wouldn't it be enough to "unbreak" (fix?) Syclant? If Infernape, with the better STAB (not sure, actually) and defensive typing, isn't broken, why would Syclant be? At most, it has 116 in my spread; something Infernape doesn't have. It's still a threat, just not that much of a monster.

I do get your complaints about the Defenses; even though it won't become a tank with ten more on both defensive stats, maybe it would be better to just maintain the "pure glass-cannon" thing. More Deoxys-A-like, less Infernape-like (argh stop comparing them both, Arael). I did this more to keep the BST, though. If the community doesn't mind it, we could just keep the below average stats...

HP: 70 / Attack: 106 / Defense: 70 / Sp. Attack: 106 / Sp. Defense: 64 / Speed: 116

70 / 106 / 70 / 106 / 64 / 116

 

[darkie]

This is my spread:

I subtracted 15 Base Stat points total, giving a total for 540. The 115 Speed is pretty obvious, but I feel that a reduction of Syclant's offensive stats is also much needed. With both Swords Dance and Tail Glow at its disposal, the 5 point decrease in each attack stat makes somewhat of a difference initially, and theoretically makes Syclant be a lot easier to handle.

 

[eric the espeon]

Sorry for the delay in getting the next thread up; I have had some stuff to deal with in real life that demanded attention (mostly relating to school starting).

I will be posting the new threads late tonight.

TAY I assume you are busy with RL so have not got round to this.. but its been 5-6 days.

Do you mind if I take over until you get some free time?

PS: To other people, TAY was last active today so there is a good chance he will read this.

 

[TAY]

yeah i'm sorry, with school just starting and me just getting a new apartment i have had some stuff to do. My girlfriend is visiting this weekend, but I actually told here I would need some time this evening to do pokemon stuff (lol), so the next threads will be up tonight.

EDIT: Ok it'll have to be tomorrow; I didn't get that half hour =/

 

[Archibald_83]

My Spread is

70/108/65/100/62/115

for a BS total of 520.

 

[cyberzero]

Well, I really feel Syclant should be "normalized."
I also think that Syclant is primarily a special attacker rather than a physical one, as shown.
So I'd support a change like:

70/110/70/120/65/115
Capitalizing on special power instead of physical as its stats reflected before.
Physical Sweepiness: 174 Rank 6: Amazing
Special Sweepiness: 89 Rank -1: Below Average
Physical Tankiness: 191 Rank 7: Amazing
Special Tankiness: 84 Rank -1: Below Average
Offensive/Defensive Balance: 41.9 Extreme Bias to Offense
Physical/Special Balance: -2 No Bias
Overall Rating: 555 Excellent.

But...the drop to 115 isn't really a significant one.
Hmmm.

This set really makes a lot of sense to me, especially the new attack stats. The speed drop still allows it to outspeed a LOT of things without being broken, which was the main goal of this revision. Great job!