Gen 1 Blastoise (NU) [GP 1/1]

[Sabelette]

I have decided to rewrite from scratch to reflect meta changes better, the old set and analysis just do not fit the new meta and Toise as #3 at all

Here it is

[OVERVIEW]
Mr. Mime and Clefable define RBY NU, but Blastoise is the glue that holds it together. Blastoise is the catch-all check to Fire- and Water-types and the main line of defense against an early Charizard sweep. It's also one of the few Pokemon able to take a hit from Golem, forcing it out immediately with Surf. Blastoise's offense cannot be discounted due to the lack of recovery in NU; even checks like Mr. Mime, Clefable, and Electrode hate taking a Surf as they enter, and many switch-ins fear Body Slam paralysis too. Blastoise often ends up serving as a check to itself, since switching in against it is so difficult. Nothing but Electrode can 2HKO Blastoise without a critical hit, allowing it to trade hits effectively with almost any foe, and the threat of Counter makes it difficult for foes to unleash Hyper Beam with impunity, lest Blastoise switch in and punish them.

Blastoise's biggest flaw is its mediocre Speed, which leaves it open to Venomoth entering to put it to sleep. Blastoise is so critical that allowing this is often game-losing, but switching out gives Venomoth even more momentum; this interaction makes it extremely hard to use Blastoise early-game. Even with sleep off the table, Mr. Mime, Nidoking, and Kabutops all outspeed it and will invariably damage it heavily should it stay and fight. Blastoise also struggles to check Kingler and Kabutops; while it easily weakens both into KO range of allies like Charizard or Mr. Mime, losing Blastoise early in the process can make Charizard or Moltres a major threat. Also, once Blastoise has lost roughly 45% of its HP, it's no longer an effective switch-in to unparalyzed Charizard, which can use Swords Dance as it enters and OHKO it with Hyper Beam from this range. Further, Blastoise usually draws opposing Blastoise in, and they tend to trade with each other. Blastoise thus only gets one or two switch-in opportunities per game, but the opponent will pay a price to remove it for their sweepers.

[SET]
name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Surf
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Counter
move 4: Body Slam / Blizzard

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Surf OHKOes Golem, 2HKOes Charizard, Ninetales, and Nidoking, and deals excellent damage to non-resistant foes. Seismic Toss enables Blastoise to duel opposing Blastoise and Seadra, 4HKOing both. Counter plays off of this interaction and deals 55.4% to opposing Blastoise after a Seismic Toss. It also lets Blastoise send back Charizard's or Kabutops's Slash twice over, heavily punishing anything they switch into, and Counter can return massive damage after switching into Hyper Beam from Kingler, Raticate, or Clefable. Raticate also must fear a Counter on Super Fang, usually forcing it to use Thunderbolt instead. Blastoise's final moveslot is more flexible. Body Slam can potentially hobble Mr. Mime or Electrode as they switch in, or it can gain an advantage versus opposing Blastoise without risking a massive Counter. Blizzard is also a possibility, notably 2HKOing Exeggcute and the occasional Fearow while potentially freezing other foes.

Blastoise is a mainstay of every viable NU team, often forcing opposing Blastoise to trade for it, as few Pokemon can switch into it well. It can function well alongside other Water-types like Kabutops and Kingler, which can assist in fending off opposing Blastoise and Charizard. Golem is a notably good teammate for Blastoise, as it safely switches into Electric-type attacks, can exploit paralysis spread by Body Slam, and helps Blastoise check Charizard. Alternatively, Exeggcute can check Electrode and Mr. Mime after they force Blastoise out, utilizing the opportunity to land Sleep Powder. Electrode can pair surprisingly well with Blastoise, allowing it to play more aggressively, as Electrode can stop opposing Blastoise and Charizard late-game.

Blastoise should only be sparsely used early-game, as opponents can easily send in Venomoth to get a free sleep attempt against it. Once Sleep Clause is in effect, it can come in to stop Fire-types and Golem in their tracks and force a response. This will usually lead to a Blastoise mirror match that removes both from the game or leaves them too weakened to check anything; should the opponent send in Mr. Mime or Clefable instead, Blastoise can happily hit them with Surf on entry, and then it can switch out to blockade Charizard later. If Blastoise gets in on a Slash from Charizard, the opponent also must consider the risk of a massive Counter against their switch-in. If Blastoise remains healthy late-game, it can stop an attempted sweep by Charizard, Moltres, or Seadra and secure victory.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Blastoise has a plethora of niche options that can substitute for Counter or its fourth move. Toxic is a potential response to Charizard's or Moltres's Fire Spin and can also help to defeat opposing Blastoise without risking Counter. Rest allows Blastoise to eternally wall Ninetales and Seadra and can assist in Toxic stalling opposing Blastoise, but using it allows Mr. Mime and Swords Dance users free entry. Rest is best used to secure endgames against foes lacking setup, rather than as a mid-game defensive play. Blastoise may also consider Hydro Pump, sacrificing accuracy for power. It 2HKOes Moltres, possibly 2HKOes Kabutops, and 3HKOes Clefable. Ice Beam over Blizzard guarantees a 2HKO against Exeggcute without risking a miss chance, but it gives worse damage against other targets. Earthquake is Blastoise's strongest attack versus Electrode and the extremely rare Gastly, 2HKOing the former and having a 59% chance to OHKO the latter. Finally, Bubble Beam can drop the Speed of Nidoking or Charizard, and it doesn't forfeit the 2HKO if Surf follows it up, potentially allowing Blastoise to fish for an even better situation with no downside. In an emergency, it may stop Charizard from setting up and sweeping late-game.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Thunderbolt Users**: Nearly all teams contain a Mr. Mime, which outspeeds Blastoise and 3HKOes it with Thunderbolt if it can switch in safely. Clefable, while slower, has superior bulk, switches safely into Body Slam, and threatens a Thunderbolt 3HKO or Thunder Wave. Electrode's STAB Thunderbolt is a 2HKO with a high critical hit rate, forcing Blastoise out. However, Mr. Mime and Electrode fear Body Slam paralysis and are generally frail, so they're usually only able to revenge kill.

**Venomoth**: Venomoth outspeeds Blastoise and can easily enter after a KO or switch into Surf. Blastoise is often a team's defensive centerpiece and cannot afford to take sleep early-game, which gives Venomoth a free sleep attempt as Blastoise switches out, compensating for Sleep Powder's shaky accuracy.

**Blastoise**: Blastoise will often trade hits with its opposing counterpart, which is often a team's only reliable Blastoise switch-in, resulting in one Blastoise being KOed and the other being severely weakened in most cases. Smart prediction with Counter may result in one Blastoise still having significant health left, but in most cases the winning Blastoise can be revenge killed by nearly any foe.

**Kingler and Kabutops**: Both Water-type Swords Dance users are middling checks to Blastoise, removing it but ensuring their own demise shortly after. However, a trade often suits them, as Blastoise is usually more valuable. Kingler is just bulky enough to use Swords Dance in front of Blastoise and KO or severely weaken it, often leaving a team with no further check to Charizard. Similarly, Kabutops can win the one-on-one fight or weaken Blastoise into KO range of other threats.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/
Previous version by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/pac.520967/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/nicole7735.593487/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/juoean.486797/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/may.236353/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/volk.5308777/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/adeleine.517429/

 

[juoean]

rly good (flower)

idk if id put kingler in c&c, not like stoise does any better vs say kabutops. i think maybe a better way to express your point is just, ‘chip damage’ ~ blastoise’s hp goes down pretty quickly once it takes a couple hits it cant check things anymore etc. good mons to chip it can be from anything ranging from kingler to moltres to nidoking to your own stoise

(im not sure stoise gains momentum vs moltres, can’t stoise lose the mu pretty easily if it switches in to fblast)

fearow is the other target of blizzard [probably more important than eggy nowadays lmao].

no other comments

 

[Sabelette]

Made a few updates including stuff juoean mentioned.

 

[nicole7735]

[OVERVIEW]
Blastoise is one of the most centralizing and defensively potent Pokemon in RBY NU. Its role in checking several of the tier's primary offensive threats, such as Golem, Moltres, Charizard, and opposing Blastoise, is essential for the majority of teams to function. In addition, it is notable for absorbing Fire Spin well, forcing the Fire Spin user to switch or risk heavy punishment. Blastoise is also a legitimate offensive threat, with its combination of STAB Water-type attacks, Seismic Toss, and Ice-type coverage being hard for much of the tier to take reliably, often forcing opposing Blastoise to check it.

However, Blastoise's mediocre Speed leaves it outrun by numerous offensive threats like Mr. Mime, Electrode, Nidoking, Kabutops, and Charizard. Electrode and Mr. Mime are especially problematic, with their powerful Thunderbolts forcing Blastoise to switch out and lose momentum. Clefable can paralyze Blastoise before using Thunderbolt against it, and Venomoth easily switches into Blastoise to attempt to land Sleep Powder. Blastoise is often the lynchpin of a team's defense, and so being put to sleep or losing even more momentum by switching out is a great risk in the early game. Blastoise struggles to check Kingler and Kabutops, both of whom may Swords Dance and defeat it, and once Blastoise has lost roughly 45% of its HP it ceases to be an effective switch-in to unparalyzed Charizard, who can Swords Dance as it enters and OHKO it with Hyper Beam from this range.

[SET]
Bulky Attacker
Surf
Seismic Toss
Counter
Body Slam / Blizzard


[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Surf 2HKOes notable Ground- and Fire-types like Nidoking, Charizard, and Ninetales, while OHKOing Golem. Seismic Toss prevents Blastoise from being walled by its opposing counterpart, securing a 4HKO and preventing Rest looping. Counter plays off of this interaction and deals 55.4% to Blastoise upon countering a Seismic Toss, while also allowing Blastoise to send back Charizard or Kabutops's Slash twofold, heavily punishing switches.

Blastoise's final move slot is more flexible. Body Slam presents an additional source of paralysis, allowing it to potentially hobble Mr. Mime or Electrode switching in or gain an advantage versus opposing Blastoise without opening itself to a massive Counter. Blizzard is also a possibility, notably 2HKOing Exeggcute and the occasional Fearow while potentially freezing other opponents.

Blastoise should be preserved throughout the early- and mid-game, as it can consistently halt momentum from opposing Charizard while helping to check Moltres, Seadra, and Golem. The Moth interaction is super important here too, you've mentioned it earlier but I think it should be emphasised since it's so central to how Blastoise should be played. In addition to this, losing Blastoise can make it much trickier to contest opposing Blastoise, as it will check many of your own threats. Due to this, the Blastoise mirror match will happen quite frequently and will often influence the course of an entire game.

Blastoise is a mainstay of most teams, often being forced to trade for its opposing counterpart, as few Pokemon can switch into it well. It can function well alongside other Water-types like Kabutops and Kingler, who can assist in fending off opposing Blastoise and Charizard. Golem is a notably good teammate for Blastoise, as it safely switches into Electric-type attacks, can exploit paralysis spread by Body Slam, and provides additional support in checking opposing Charizard. Alternatively, Exeggcute can check Electrode and Mr. Mime, utilizing the opportunity to land Sleep Powder.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Blastoise has a plethora of niche options that can substitute for Counter or its fourth move. Toxic is a potential response to Charizard or Moltres' Fire Spin, and can also help Blastoise to defeat opposing Blastoise. Toxic really doesn't help in the mirror at all, total waste of a turn This can also complement allied Fire Spin users if such risky strategies are necessary. Rest allows Blastoise to eternally wall Ninetales, Rapidash, and Seadra, and can assist in Toxic stalling opposing Blastoise, but is extremely risky due to allowing Mr. Mime safe entry or allowing Swords Dance users to prepare a sweep. Rest is best used to secure endgames against foes lacking setup or a way to break through Blastoise.

Blastoise may also consider Hydro Pump, sacrificing accuracy for power. This secures a 2HKO on Moltres, a possible 2HKO versus Kabutops, and a guaranteed 3HKO against Clefable. Ice Beam can be utilized over Blizzard to guarantee a 2HKO against Exeggcute without risking a 10% miss chance, in exchange for worse damage against other targets. Finally, Earthquake is Blastoise's strongest attack versus Electrode and the extremely rare Gastly, 2HKOing the former and having a 59% chance to OHKO the latter.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Thunderbolt Users**: Nearly all teams contain a Mr. Mime, who outspeeds and 3HKOs Blastoise with Thunderbolt if able to switch in safely. Clefable, while slower, has superior bulk and switches safely into Body Slam while threatening Thunder Wave and a Thunderbolt 3HKO. Electrode’s STAB Thunderbolt is a 2HKO with a high critical hit rate, forcing Blastoise out.

**Venomoth**: Venomoth outspeeds Blastoise and can easily enter after a KO or switch into Surf. Blastoise is often a team’s defensive centerpiece and cannot afford to be slept in the early game.

**Kingler and Kabutops**: Kingler is just bulky enough to Swords Dance in front of Blastoise and KO or severely weaken it, often leaving a team with no further check to Charizard. Similarly, Kabutops can win the 1v1 or weaken Blastoise into range of other threats.

Not a huge amount to say here, made a few comments, implement as you wish. QC 1/1

 

[Sabelette]

Considering just doing a full rewrite for this so i may do that while keeping these comments in mind.

 

[Sabelette]

updated and this is now a full

 

[juoean]

read the updated/new analysis, its good 100%. i give it a qc stamp if that is still needed (no idea if the old ones count or what qc number it is considered at rn etc.)

honestly the only comment i have is perhaps to mention bubblebeam in oo, as bbeam into surf almost always kos zard so it should have slightly better odds to deny zard setup than trying to crit surf (since bslam into surf doesnt ko anyway). bbeam could perhaps have some relevance vs nido or kabutops in certain spots as well. overall its obv a meme choice tho, but prob more of an option than some of the things currently in oo like earthquake, so idk u decide if its worth mentioning lols. other than that 100% great job

 

[phoopes]

i give it a qc stamp if that is still needed (no idea if the old ones count or what qc number it is considered at rn etc.)

confirming that this can be the second QC, so it's 2/2 and ready for GP Sabelette

 

[Sabelette]

GP Team

 

[Adeleine]

Add/Fix Remove Comment
(AC): Add Comma

Hide

[OVERVIEW]
Mr. Mime and Clefable define RBY NU, but Blastoise is the glue that holds it together. Blastoise is the catch-all check to Fire- and Water-types and is the main line of defense against an early Charizard sweep. It is It's also one of the few Pokemon able to take a hit from Golem, forcing it out immediately with a retaliatory Surf. Blastoise's offensive power offense cannot be discounted due to the lack of recovery in NU; even checks like Mr. Mime, Clefable, and Electrode hate taking a Surf as they enter, and many switch-ins fear Body Slam paralysis too. Blastoise often ends up serving as a check to itself because itself, since switching in against it is so difficult. Nothing but Electrode can 2HKO Blastoise without a critical hit, allowing it to trade hits effectively with almost any foe, and the threat of Counter makes it difficult for foes to unleash Hyper Beam with impunity, lest Blastoise switch in and punish them. (changeable if you meant something else)

Blastoise's biggest flaw is its mediocre Speed, which leaves it open to Venomoth entering to sleep it. put it to sleep. Blastoise is so critical that allowing this is often game-losing, but switching out gives Venomoth even more momentum; this interaction makes it extremely hard to use Blastoise early-game. Even with sleep off the table, Mr. Mime, Nidoking, and Kabutops all outspeed it and will invariably damage it heavily should it stay and fight. Blastoise also struggles to check Kingler and Kabutops; while it easily weakens both into KO range of allies like Charizard or Mr. Mime, losing Blastoise early in the process can make Charizard or Moltres a major threat. Also, once Blastoise has lost roughly 45% of its HP, (AC) it ceases to be it's no longer an effective switch-in to unparalyzed Charizard, which can use Swords Dance as it enters and OHKO it with Hyper Beam from this range. Further, Blastoise usually draws opposing Blastoise in, and they tend to trade with each other. (felt like this was worth bringing into the intro somehow, it was a big shock for me to find later on and feels pretty central to what it does in practice) Blastoise thus only gets one or two switch-in opportunities per game, but the opponent will pay a price to remove it for their sweepers, even if that price is their own Blastoise. (as opposed to the earlier add, for which something to that effect feels important, this is extremely extremely optional)

[SET]
name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Surf
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Counter
move 4: Body Slam / Blizzard

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Surf OHKOes Golem, 2HKOes Charizard, Ninetales, and Nidoking, and deals excellent damage to non-resistant foes. Seismic Toss enables Blastoise to duel its opposing counterpart opposing Blastoise and Seadra, 4HKOing both. Counter plays off of this interaction and deals 55.4% to Blastoise upon countering opposing Blastoise after a Seismic Toss. It also allows Blastoise to lets Blastoise send back Charizard's or Kabutops's Slash twofold, twice over, heavily punishing switches, or switch any foe they switch into, and Counter can return massive damage after switching into Hyper Beam from Kingler, Raticate, or Clefable and return massive damage. Raticate also must fear a Counter on Super Fang, usually forcing it to use Thunderbolt instead. Blastoise's final move slot moveslot is more flexible. Body Slam can potentially hobble Mr. Mime or Electrode as they switch in, (AC) or it can gain an advantage versus opposing Blastoise without risking a massive Counter. Blizzard is also a possibility, notably 2HKOing Exeggcute and the occasional Fearow while potentially freezing other opponents. foes.

Blastoise is a mainstay of every viable NU team, often being forced to trade for its opposing counterpart, forcing opposing Blastoise to trade for it, as few Pokemon can switch into it well. It can function well alongside other Water-types like Kabutops and Kingler, which can assist in fending off opposing Blastoise and Charizard. Golem is a notably good teammate for Blastoise, as it safely switches into Electric-type attacks, can exploit paralysis spread by Body Slam, and provides additional support in checking opposing helps Blastoise check Charizard. Alternatively, Exeggcute can check Electrode and Mr. Mime after they force Blastoise out, (I imagine? optional / changeable) utilizing the opportunity to land Sleep Powder. Electrode can pair surprisingly well with Blastoise, allowing it to play more aggressively with the knowledge that aggressively, because Electrode can stop opposing Blastoise and Charizard in the for it late-game.

Blastoise should only be sparsely rarely (optional; if unclear, connotation leans more "do it rarely in each match" for sparsely, and leans more "do it rarely ever" for rarely, at least afaik) used early-game, as opponents can easily send in Venomoth to get a free sleep attempt against it. Once Sleep Clause is in effect, it can come in to stop Fire-types and Golem in their tracks and force a response. This will usually lead to a Blastoise mirror match that removes both from the game or leaves them too weakened to check anything; should the opponent send in Mr. Mime or Clefable instead, Blastoise can happily hit them with Surf on entry, (AC) and then it can switch out to blockade Charizard later. If Blastoise gets in on a Slash from Charizard, the opponent also must consider the risk of a massive Counter into their switch. against their switch-in. If it Blastoise remains healthy late-game, it can be used to check stop an attempted sweep by Charizard, Moltres, or Seadra and secure victory.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Blastoise has a plethora of niche options that can substitute for Counter or its fourth move. Toxic is a potential response to Charizard or Moltres' Charizard's or Moltres's Fire Spin and can also help Blastoise to defeat opposing Blastoise without risking Counter. Rest allows Blastoise to eternally wall Ninetales and Seadra and can assist in Toxic stalling opposing Blastoise, but this using it allows Mr. Mime and Swords Dance users free entry. Rest is best used to secure endgames against foes lacking setup, (AC. great info btw) rather than as a mid-game defensive play. Blastoise may also consider Hydro Pump over Surf, sacrificing accuracy for power. This secures a 2HKO on It 2HKOes Moltres, a possible 2HKO versus possibly 2HKOes Kabutops if it hits twice, and a guaranteed 3HKO against 3HKOes Clefable. Ice Beam can be utilized over Blizzard to guarantee guarantees a 2HKO against Exeggcute without risking a 10% miss chance in exchange for chance, but it gives worse damage against other targets. Finally, Earthquake is Blastoise's strongest attack versus Electrode and the extremely rare Gastly, 2HKOing the former and having a 59% chance to OHKO the latter. Finally, Bubble Beam can be used to potentially Speed drop drop the Speed of Nidoking or Charizard while still 2HKOing them with Bubble Beam + Surf, allowing Charizard, and it doesn't forfeit the 2HKO if Surf follows it up, potentially allowing Blastoise to fish for an even better situation or with no downside. In an emergency, it may (change if appropriate/desired) stop Charizard from setting up and sweeping late-game.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Thunderbolt Users**: Nearly all teams contain a Mr. Mime, which outspeeds and 3HKOes Blastoise and 3HKOes it with Thunderbolt if able to it can switch in safely. Clefable, while slower, has superior bulk and bulk, switches safely into Body Slam, (AC) while threatening Thunder Wave and and threatens a Thunderbolt 3HKO or Thunder Wave. Electrode's (fixed apostrophe) STAB Thunderbolt is a 2HKO with a high critical hit rate, forcing Blastoise out. However, Mr. Mime and Electrode fear Body Slam paralysis and are generally frail, so they are they're (stuff like this is minor flow/sentence length adjustments if that wasn't clear, ofc im not saying that 'they are' is grammatically incorrect lol) usually only able to revenge kill.

**Venomoth**: Venomoth outspeeds Blastoise and can easily enter after a KO or switch into Surf. Blastoise is often a team's (fixed apostrophe) defensive centerpiece and cannot afford to be slept in the early game, giving take sleep early-game, which gives Venomoth a free sleep attempt as it Blastoise switches out, (AC) and shoring up compensating for Sleep Powder's shaky accuracy.

**Blastoise**: Blastoise will often trade hits with its opposing counterpart as the counterpart, which is often a team's only reliable Blastoise switch-in, resulting in one Blastoise being KOed and the other being severely weakened in most cases. Smart prediction with Counter may result in one Blastoise still having a significant amount of significant health left, but in most cases the winning Blastoise will still be in revenge kill range of nearly anything. can be revenge killed by nearly any foe.

**Kingler and Kabutops**: Both Water-type Swords Dance users are middling checks to Blastoise, removing it but ensuring their own demise shortly after. However, a trade often suits them, as Blastoise is usually more valuable. (I imagine something like this makes sense? changeable) Kingler is just bulky enough to use Swords Dance in front of Blastoise and KO or severely weaken it, often leaving a team with no further check to Charizard. Similarly, Kabutops can win the one-on-one fight or weaken Blastoise into KO range of other threats.
(remember to change to new credits format)
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Sabelette, 583793]]
- Previous version by: [[pac, 520967]]
- Quality checked by: [[nicole7735, 593487], [juoean, 486797], [May, 236353], [Volk, 530877]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Adeleine, 517429]]

GP Team done

 

[Sabelette]

Done and uploaded!