At least use the good raikou with aura sphere :D"You're continuing your battle, right? That's because we are that type of person, aren't we..."
I thought I was done with battle facilities, but no. I am never done. The irksome record of 291 with Sawk / Latios / Bisharp / Milotic, which I was never able to replicate, still stands -- and I could not let it stand. Also, hospitals are boring.
Disclaimer: All my gen5 mons are lovingly PKHeX'd into existence. This isn't going to be on the leaderboard. Also I played all of this without access to a damage calculator or set lookup (and I don't think I lost to not having them, save for one time), which at least proves that you can collect Starf Berries without that nonsense.
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Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Tailwind
Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect
Thundurus-T @ Electric Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Volt Absorb
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Grass Knot
- Protect
Record: 215
The loss occurred against a legendary trainer (of course) who brought out Shuca Berry Raikou (with Shadow Ball 2HKOing Latios)/Regice -- after Top had died and E-Gem had been spent on Thundurus -- to win pretty much automatically. The backline cannot do anything against Regice, and injured Suicune loses to Raikou, which the backline also struggles to deal with. I could possibly have avoided the Top KO, though; a reminder to preserve it at all costs vs. legendary trainers.
Protect is very strong on Top and not normally worth dropping. Cune providing Tailwind means that Zapdos doesn't offer much over Thundurus-T, which can run HP Flying since it gets Knot to whack Grounds, resulting in better anti-Grass coverage (the slight bulk deficit does not seem to matter). Volt Absorb is not much of a benefit in practice, but does help occasionally.
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Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Levitate
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
Landorus-T @ Ground Gem
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Protect
Vaporeon @ Water Gem
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Water Absorb
- Scald
- Helping Hand
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Record: 113
This team feels like it shouldn't even have reached 100. Many battles are smooth sailing, but in those that aren't, ye gods does this tread water. Vaporeon was chosen because T1 Blizzard spam needed a countermeasure and it can normally take two hits, gaining tempo with Protect/HH. IB isn't really redundant when Icy Wind is so feeble even at +1 (but seemed necessary, since the team has no speed control otherwise and nothing even hits 100 base) that quad weaks survive it; one could argue about HP Grass over this. Hydreigon gets a spot instead of Latios here to improve Psychic match-ups and provide better anti-Steel coverage.
The early loss occurred to a combination of threats next to Calm Mind Blissey, which started running over everything with BoltBeam after getting an unimpeded +1 (Gem EQ isn't close to OHKOing and everyone else's damage against it is lol; Landorus was not in the field when it appeared). Overall, Cresselia/Landorus didn't feel like an improvement over Suicune/Hitmontop (both individually and as a pair), so I went back to that.
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Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Tailwind
Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect
Scrafty @ Dark Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect
Record: 190
What's better than one Hitmontop? How about two of them? Better yet, one of them can switch into Psychics and demolish them (minding Focus Blast). This team's learning curve is identical to knowing when to set Tailwind; everything else naturally falls into place. Crunch over Payback because Scrafty actually moves before some targets (Slowking...), more so in Tailwind, and the Defense drop can be valuable such as when Rest-looping enemy CalmCune, which is certainly a threat now that I have no Thundurus-T to nuke it. Legendary trainers remain fearsome opponents.
The loss came against a legendary trainer (of course) who led Raikou / Hurrnadus and overwhelmed Suicune with raw force, leaving Hurrnadus to Hurr itself past the Fighters. Backline Articuno had no problem winning against Latios afterwards; 0-1.
---------------------------------
Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect
Raikou @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Pressure
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Snarl
- Volt Switch
Record: 234
Suicune now has HP Grass (instead of Tailwind). The backline isn't so reliant on Tailwind -- Raikou's 115 speed sure is an asset.
The loss came against a Psychic who led an awful Mr. Mime / Metagross combination that should not have been able to do anything, but Mime set Light Screen and I lost Hitmontop and Latios quite avoidably in the ensuing slog (Top to crit), while Suicune suffered Toxic Orb Trick and got whittled down (Metagross is only 3HKO'd by +1 Scald anyway and Protects like mad). Then I was unable to kill Slowbro with Thunderbolt through Light Screen and it set Trick Room next to Calm Mind Musharna, which crit Raikou in the end for 0-1. gg UselessMush.
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Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect
Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect
Sawk @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Sturdy
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Rock Slide
- Taunt
Record: ~140
The loss came against a legendary trainer (of course) who led that awful Swagger Cresselia that got its self-hits every time, plus Virizion to whittle down Suicune. Couple that with Icy Wind and an adjacent lastmon Latias to kill Latios (which got hit with Icy Wind on the switch because of course the stupid thing stops Swaggering right then) and you're looking at 0-1. Yet another loss that wouldn't have happened with Misty Terrain. But it also felt like Sawk wasn't ideal to improve the legendary trainer matchup, which, as should be clear, is near the top of streak-ending threats.
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Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect
Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect
Scizor @ Steel Gem
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Technician
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower
- Protect
Record: 203
I was playing while pissed off (for non-mons reasons) and lost to a piss team from, I think, Ranger Terran: Serperior/Skuntank/Skarmory/Spiritomb (lol all S). The Serperior dodged Fake Out to hit Cune for huge, then I lost Scrafty to Brave Bird while hoping for the docile Skarmory4 and lost Cune to double-targeting on a Scizor Protect next turn. (I couldn't remember which of the Skuntank sets had Flamethrower, but it most likely wasn't this one, making Protect a misplay.) It didn't go well from there. It felt like I had already exhausted all my luck to hit 200 with this, though; there were multiple 1-0 close calls, including one where Garchomp3 locked into Fire Fang almost beat full-health and Gem-intact Scrafty on flinches, and another sad case where Scizor barely beat +2 Def Stockpile/Charge Beam/Rest Lanturn (no crit across the ~30 Bug Bites) because its routine makes it get Rest-looped instead of killing.
I thought that Latios could be a dead end after all, and started to build without it. The result: a ~100-win streak with Suicune/Scrafty/Thundurus-T/Scizor terminated by a legendary trainer (of course) with Virizion/Tornadus/Entei/Zapdos. Virizion's Protect caused headaches as Cune eventually died to Leaf Blade; then E-Gem TBolt + LO Bullet Punch fell 1HP short of KOing Entei, which Overheated Scizor into oblivion, not that it would have helped much against the final Zapdos2, which Double Teamed thrice and then moved in for the kill. In hindsight, I should have switched out Cune for Thundurus right away, but Zapdos2 still poses problems, to which Latios would have been a good check.
Then I had another idea: why not combine the Lando/Cress and Scrafty/Cune ideas? Cune switches into Water/Ice aimed at Landorus and backline Scrafty glues it all together.
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Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Levitate
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Landorus-T @ Ground Gem
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Fly
- Protect
Suicune @ Water Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect
Record: 187
Yet I lost against an Ice Worker rocking Vanilluxe/Mamoswine/Abomasnow/Froslass by misplaying and trying to save a demolished Suicune at 23HP (fuck Abomasnow's Wood Hammer on principle), which got Scrafty injured instead. Guess what happened: Froslass in Hail. Cresselia got frozen before it could IW, Scrafty got killed before it could Crunch, and Landorus was dead weight. Lesson learned: keep Scrafty the fuck alive against Ice Workers. It's good to see that Lando/Cress got near 200 with the right support, though -- Vaporeon just doesn't move shit like Cune does. Shed a tear for NYPC Growth.
Then I lost again against the same Ice Worker with Abomasnow/Glaceon/Beartic/Froslass at like 75. Cresselia got T1 frozen and never thawed, Landorus only managed to bring Aboma down to Sash with Fly, Scrafty and Cune tried their best but against GlaceTROLL avoiding (for today's Peterko quote) there is no cure, and Cune eventually died alone. Ye gods. Also note Beartic surviving the Gem Drain Punch. Where do we go from here?
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Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect
Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect
Raikou @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Pressure
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Snarl
- Volt Switch
Record: 105*
A familiar squad, except for Scrafty replacing Hitmontop. I'm growing ever fonder of Scrafty, it's the Incineroar of Gen5 and Drain Punch is great for its longevity, almost like equipping a Gen7 50% berry (missed tremendously here); healing back to near-full with the Gem-boosted hit occurs regularly. Besides, Psychic specialists are all the easier to wear down, whereas the new Fighting weakness (compared to Top) is well-covered by Latios. Flying types get handled by Raikou as before.
This is where I stand right now. I'll probably play more Subway in the future.
Reckless would be good (I do have access to it) but on balance I don't think it's needed - Brave Bird OHKOs a ton of stuff already, and Intimidate is so useful for general defensive support. It allows the other team members to switch in more safely. Really Close Combat is the move I need extra damage on, it falls slightly short of OHKOing several Ice-types which pose a threat. Hydreigon is an interesting concept (though I wouldn't call it bulky...)Interesting concept!
At your last writing I wondered if Staraptor does not outclass Dodrio lel. Maybe you have access to the hidden ability Reckless for more damage?
Anyways, does Manectric add so much to the team? Or is it holding up to the lightningrod theme more than necessary? I feel like here is big potential for improvement.
For instance Hydreigon with Levitate, good against Psychics/TR and more bulky in general. Or maybe you go more for perish song and put something really bulky inthere, like Ferrothorn or Cresselia? Or something with Fake Out or Sky Drop, or even a Prankster sub with Tornadus/Thundurus. Just some ideas.
Yeah, I think you're right.I don't know if it mattered, but shuca berry on such a frail mon as manectric to me seems to be wasted.
To be honest, given the team's difficulty in dealing with Ice-types, I'm not favourable towards adding a dragon to the squad. I think I am going to give it another go but with Manectric as an all-out attacker with Signal Beam (or maybe Snarl for some additional defensive utility...?) over Toxic and a Life Orb as the held item. Just realised Manectric doesn't get Dark Pulse, d'oh.The only thing which imo speaks against hydreigon is the additional ice weakness. Other than that it has more power and more bulk (yeah, not bulky, but way more bulk than manectric), and levitate. Maybe I am too much on the hydreigon train because it worked so well in my last team, but I think it's worth a try. To me it seems that in your team it would outclass manectric by far, with a life orb having way more power than you are accustomed now for manectric, and for my team I can say, its bulk really came in handy. Also as you say you have problems with TR, hydreigon can stay around against many psychics and ghosts and really hurt them. And staraptor probably removes troublesome fighting and bug mons nicely.