Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

i took a look at the king's rock users. starmie4 nearly singlehandedly beat me 2-3 times, in one battle it psychic crit to OHKO my rotom, then surf flinch crit scizor for the 2HKO. all terrakion sets are OHKO'd clean by bullet punch, yanmega (surprisingly good in subway) is 2HKO'd by bullet punch - but can 3HKO healthy scizor, jolteon is OHKO'd by unboosted gliscor EQ and only a tiny chance at 4HKO with shadow ball, that infernape set is junk, mienshao is a non-threat.

regarding rock slide and hax in general - some luck did roll my way in my two best win streaks. other than the starmie4 loss, here are three instances where i was lucky enough to overcome flinches.
starmie4 again: scizor was my last mon, survives one surf flinch, tanks the second surf, and OHKOs with u-turn

chand: thundurus1 yanmega1/3 aerodactyl (this is straight from my log)
- gliscor shuts down thundurus, gets +6
- yanmega air slash crit+flinch on gliscor, gets 2HKO
- rotom voltswitches on yanmega, scizor bullet punches for the KO, then OHKO on dactyl

instance #3
- jolteon gets shadow ball king's rock flinch on gliscor
- weavile gets ice punch freeze x2 on scizor but scizor thaws immediately twice
for transparency, here are some losses straight from my log
bank: kingdra porygon2 flygon
- kingdra uses rain dance, gets hydro pump crit OHKO on scizor, then KOs rotom
- gliscor able to revenge kill kingdra
- porygon2 specs ice beam OHKOs gliscor

vespera: shiftry3 houndoom arcanine1
- didn't log how i lost, but i remember shiftry (holding heat rock) led with sunny day and it's sneakily followed by two fire mon, who proceeded to tear through my team with sun-boosted fire moves, and the sun nerfed rotom's hydro pump. in my log i made a note for whenever i play vespera in the future, to wait out the sun whenever i'm facing her because her roster is full of fire mons.

petro: salamence2 infernape3 hydreigon3
- rotom's wisp misses then gliscor switched in
- gliscor KO'd by hydreigon's draco meteor
- weakened rotom KO'd by hydreigon
- scizor revenges rotom but KO'd by nape
looking at my saves folder, i made a save state for every loss, and in total i've 10 losses, five of which i felt were pure hax. made save instances where i felt i was lucky or if i got rng'd (but still won), and there are 59 instances where i felt i was lucky, and 33 instances where i felt i got rng'd. my save naming scheme isn't consistent so there may be more. if you're interested, i don't mind posting more hax/loss stories in the interest of transparency. full disclosure - i did most of my testing a year ago a couple months after my last post here, so my memory isn't fresh. lost interest shortly after that 260 win streak, and came back to the subway a couple months ago to test out some new team ideas. i'll attempt a couple of fresh runs with this team to see how far i can go before losing
 
Thanks for the info!
I wasn't writing to blame you for an unsound streak, I just wanted to point that weakness out. 260 seems quite high but not totally unlikely, especially with what you wrote about it.
 
No worries, after I got back into pokemon a couple recently I was excited to make a post about my most successful team. I really should've made this post last year when it was fresh in my mind, or at least did some testing along with attentive log making to confirm my results. My personal opinion is the that only true record holders are the ones who did this on the physical cartridge - can't say how many times when i've unwittingly reloaded because i fell asleep while playing this game.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Been testing out a Doubles team lately and I'd appreciate some feedback and suggestions for alterations.

I recently transferred my fairly successful Gen III Doubles team up to Gen V out of interest at how well it'd perform. If you'd rather not click the link a brief explanation is below.

1638117219672.png

Dodrio @ Choice Band
Giga Impact
Drill Peck
Double-Edge
Steel Wing
252 Attack/Speed, 6 HP (Adamant)

1638117227860.png

Marowak @ Thick Club
Earthquake
Icy Wind
Perish Song
Protect
236 HP, 4 Attack, 12 Defence, 252 Sp.Def, 4 Speed (Careful)

1638117242295.png

Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Dragon Dance
Bounce
Earthquake
Double-Edge
20 HP/252 Attack/20 Defence/32 Sp.Def/184 Speed (Adamant)

1638117199395.png

Manectric @ Shuca Berry
Thunderbolt
Swagger
Toxic
Protect
252 Sp.Atk/Speed, 6 HP (Timid)

Your standard Lightningrod team. It's designed to obliterate the opponent before they can respond while completely nullifying the gaping Electric weakness shared by Dodrio and Gyarados. This team was used extensively in Gen III's Frontier and XD's Orre Colosseum (being extremely effective in the latter) so I wanted to see how it'd perform in other arenas.

In Gen III, it worked incredibly well: Dodrio is usually capable of getting at least one (but often more) kills while Marowak cleans up slower foes or sets a timer with Perish Song. Marowak's full Special Defence investment with a Careful nature means that it becomes a sponge capable of tanking various moves that would normally OHKO, and allows it to Protect bait with impunity when the AI predictably tries to finish it off next turn. Once Dodrio goes down Gyarados is a fantastic cleaner, and generally only ever needed one Dragon Dance to turn into a one-mon wrecking ball. Manectric is the backup Lightningrodder, though rarely accomplishes much outside of this - mostly, it shields while Gyarados lets off powerful Earthquakes.

Unfortunately, however, the Subway is much faster than the Frontier. Opponents Dodrio could reliably outspeed in Gen III can often hit first, and there's so many more foes that can utilise powerful Ice and Rock moves in this gen that utterly brutalise both it and Marowak. Gyarados no longer outspeeds the entire Subway even after two uses of Dragon Dance, and often takes longer to get kills.

Worst of all, the tweak to how Lightningrod works has caused some issues. In Gen III, Marowak and Manectric very rarely found themselves on the field at the same time. What with the Subway's power creep, Gyarados finds itself KOed more frequently than in Gen III and this often leaves me with my two Lightningrod users as the last two standing. In Gen V, Lightningrod also redirects Electric moves used by allies, meaning that Manectric's sole attack becomes useless. This has ended up costing me a couple of matches.

The only positive thing about the Subway compared to the Frontier is that amusingly the AI appears to have gotten worse since Emerald - opponents in the Gen III Frontier would avoid using Electric moves altogether in the presence of a Lightningrodder, while opponents in the Subway often persist in using Electric moves to no avail.

Some tweaks were made on the way up from Gen III to account for new mechanics.
  • As the former moves are now special, Dodrio swaps Hyper Beam and HP Steel for Giga Impact and Steel Wing.
  • Marowak's EVs are now 236 HP/4 Attack/12 Defence/252 Sp.Def/4 Speed.
  • For the same reason, Gyarados now runs Bounce over HP Flying. Its EVs are altered to 20 HP/252 Attack/20 Defence/32 Sp.Def/184 Speed as the Subway is much faster.
  • Instead of Brightpowder Manectric now holds a Shuca Berry.

I'm much less experienced in the Subway than the Frontier, so I'd really appreciate any tips on how to rework this team to make it truly top-level. I've grown very fond of it and think the basic strategy is sound, but unfortunately it's not performing as I want it to. I haven't yet managed to get it beyond 43 wins - it performs adequately but it feels awkward and not nearly as smooth as it needs to be.

There's all sorts of tweaks I can think of. Thing is, the pool of Lightningrodders is so much smaller than I remembered - the only other realistic candidates are Raichu, Seaking, Rhyperior, and Zebstrika. Eviolite Rhydon looks great on paper, but it's still OHKOed by all manner of super-effective hits. Perhaps Manectric should be a full sweeper, or the team should be in a different order... I don't know. I need more viewpoints, if you'd be so kind.
 
"You're continuing your battle, right? That's because we are that type of person, aren't we..."

I thought I was done with battle facilities, but no. I am never done. The irksome record of 291 with Sawk / Latios / Bisharp / Milotic, which I was never able to replicate, still stands -- and I could not let it stand. Also, hospitals are boring.

Disclaimer: All my gen5 mons are lovingly PKHeX'd into existence. This isn't going to be on the leaderboard. Also I played all of this without access to a damage calculator or set lookup (and I don't think I lost to not having them, save for one time), which at least proves that you can collect Starf Berries without that nonsense.

---------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Tailwind

Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Thundurus-T @ Electric Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Volt Absorb
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Grass Knot
- Protect

Record: 215

The loss occurred against a legendary trainer (of course) who brought out Shuca Berry Raikou (with Shadow Ball 2HKOing Latios)/Regice -- after Top had died and E-Gem had been spent on Thundurus -- to win pretty much automatically. The backline cannot do anything against Regice, and injured Suicune loses to Raikou, which the backline also struggles to deal with. I could possibly have avoided the Top KO, though; a reminder to preserve it at all costs vs. legendary trainers.

Protect is very strong on Top and not normally worth dropping. Cune providing Tailwind means that Zapdos doesn't offer much over Thundurus-T, which can run HP Flying since it gets Knot to whack Grounds, resulting in better anti-Grass coverage (the slight bulk deficit does not seem to matter). Volt Absorb is not much of a benefit in practice, but does help occasionally.

---------------------------------

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Levitate
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

Landorus-T @ Ground Gem
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Vaporeon @ Water Gem
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Water Absorb
- Scald
- Helping Hand
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Record: 113

This team feels like it shouldn't even have reached 100. Many battles are smooth sailing, but in those that aren't, ye gods does this tread water. Vaporeon was chosen because T1 Blizzard spam needed a countermeasure and it can normally take two hits, gaining tempo with Protect/HH. IB isn't really redundant when Icy Wind is so feeble even at +1 (but seemed necessary, since the team has no speed control otherwise and nothing even hits 100 base) that quad weaks survive it; one could argue about HP Grass over this. Hydreigon gets a spot instead of Latios here to improve Psychic match-ups and provide better anti-Steel coverage.

The early loss occurred to a combination of threats next to Calm Mind Blissey, which started running over everything with BoltBeam after getting an unimpeded +1 (Gem EQ isn't close to OHKOing and everyone else's damage against it is lol; Landorus was not in the field when it appeared). Overall, Cresselia/Landorus didn't feel like an improvement over Suicune/Hitmontop (both individually and as a pair), so I went back to that.

---------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Tailwind

Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Scrafty @ Dark Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Record: 190

What's better than one Hitmontop? How about two of them? Better yet, one of them can switch into Psychics and demolish them (minding Focus Blast). This team's learning curve is identical to knowing when to set Tailwind; everything else naturally falls into place. Crunch over Payback because Scrafty actually moves before some targets (Slowking...), more so in Tailwind, and the Defense drop can be valuable such as when Rest-looping enemy CalmCune, which is certainly a threat now that I have no Thundurus-T to nuke it. Legendary trainers remain fearsome opponents.

The loss came against a legendary trainer (of course) who led Raikou / Hurrnadus and overwhelmed Suicune with raw force, leaving Hurrnadus to Hurr itself past the Fighters. Backline Articuno had no problem winning against Latios afterwards; 0-1.

---------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Raikou @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Pressure
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Snarl
- Volt Switch

Record: 234

Suicune now has HP Grass (instead of Tailwind). The backline isn't so reliant on Tailwind -- Raikou's 115 speed sure is an asset.

The loss came against a Psychic who led an awful Mr. Mime / Metagross combination that should not have been able to do anything, but Mime set Light Screen and I lost Hitmontop and Latios quite avoidably in the ensuing slog (Top to crit), while Suicune suffered Toxic Orb Trick and got whittled down (Metagross is only 3HKO'd by +1 Scald anyway and Protects like mad). Then I was unable to kill Slowbro with Thunderbolt through Light Screen and it set Trick Room next to Calm Mind Musharna, which crit Raikou in the end for 0-1. gg UselessMush.

------------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Sawk @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Sturdy
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Rock Slide
- Taunt

Record: ~140

The loss came against a legendary trainer (of course) who led that awful Swagger Cresselia that got its self-hits every time, plus Virizion to whittle down Suicune. Couple that with Icy Wind and an adjacent lastmon Latias to kill Latios (which got hit with Icy Wind on the switch because of course the stupid thing stops Swaggering right then) and you're looking at 0-1. Yet another loss that wouldn't have happened with Misty Terrain. But it also felt like Sawk wasn't ideal to improve the legendary trainer matchup, which, as should be clear, is near the top of streak-ending threats.

------------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Scizor @ Steel Gem
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Technician
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower
- Protect

Record: 203

I was playing while pissed off (for non-mons reasons) and lost to a piss team from, I think, Ranger Terran: Serperior/Skuntank/Skarmory/Spiritomb (lol all S). The Serperior dodged Fake Out to hit Cune for huge, then I lost Scrafty to Brave Bird while hoping for the docile Skarmory4 and lost Cune to double-targeting on a Scizor Protect next turn. (I couldn't remember which of the Skuntank sets had Flamethrower, but it most likely wasn't this one, making Protect a misplay.) It didn't go well from there. It felt like I had already exhausted all my luck to hit 200 with this, though; there were multiple 1-0 close calls, including one where Garchomp3 locked into Fire Fang almost beat full-health and Gem-intact Scrafty on flinches, and another sad case where Scizor barely beat +2 Def Stockpile/Charge Beam/Rest Lanturn (no crit across the ~30 Bug Bites) because its routine makes it get Rest-looped instead of killing.

I thought that Latios could be a dead end after all, and started to build without it. The result: a ~100-win streak with Suicune/Scrafty/Thundurus-T/Scizor terminated by a legendary trainer (of course) with Virizion/Tornadus/Entei/Zapdos. Virizion's Protect caused headaches as Cune eventually died to Leaf Blade; then E-Gem TBolt + LO Bullet Punch fell 1HP short of KOing Entei, which Overheated Scizor into oblivion, not that it would have helped much against the final Zapdos2, which Double Teamed thrice and then moved in for the kill. In hindsight, I should have switched out Cune for Thundurus right away, but Zapdos2 still poses problems, to which Latios would have been a good check.

Then I had another idea: why not combine the Lando/Cress and Scrafty/Cune ideas? Cune switches into Water/Ice aimed at Landorus and backline Scrafty glues it all together.

------------------------------------

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Levitate
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Landorus-T @ Ground Gem
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Fly
- Protect

Suicune @ Water Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Record: 187

Yet I lost against an Ice Worker rocking Vanilluxe/Mamoswine/Abomasnow/Froslass by misplaying and trying to save a demolished Suicune at 23HP (fuck Abomasnow's Wood Hammer on principle), which got Scrafty injured instead. Guess what happened: Froslass in Hail. Cresselia got frozen before it could IW, Scrafty got killed before it could Crunch, and Landorus was dead weight. Lesson learned: keep Scrafty the fuck alive against Ice Workers. It's good to see that Lando/Cress got near 200 with the right support, though -- Vaporeon just doesn't move shit like Cune does. Shed a tear for NYPC Growth.

Then I lost again against the same Ice Worker with Abomasnow/Glaceon/Beartic/Froslass at like 75. Cresselia got T1 frozen and never thawed, Landorus only managed to bring Aboma down to Sash with Fly, Scrafty and Cune tried their best but against GlaceTROLL avoiding (for today's Peterko quote) there is no cure, and Cune eventually died alone. Ye gods. Also note Beartic surviving the Gem Drain Punch. Where do we go from here?

------------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Raikou @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Pressure
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Snarl
- Volt Switch

Record: 105*

A familiar squad, except for Scrafty replacing Hitmontop. I'm growing ever fonder of Scrafty, it's the Incineroar of Gen5 and Drain Punch is great for its longevity, almost like equipping a Gen7 50% berry (missed tremendously here); healing back to near-full with the Gem-boosted hit occurs regularly. Besides, Psychic specialists are all the easier to wear down, whereas the new Fighting weakness (compared to Top) is well-covered by Latios. Flying types get handled by Raikou as before.

This is where I stand right now. I'll probably play more Subway in the future.
 
"You're continuing your battle, right? That's because we are that type of person, aren't we..."

I thought I was done with battle facilities, but no. I am never done. The irksome record of 291 with Sawk / Latios / Bisharp / Milotic, which I was never able to replicate, still stands -- and I could not let it stand. Also, hospitals are boring.

Disclaimer: All my gen5 mons are lovingly PKHeX'd into existence. This isn't going to be on the leaderboard. Also I played all of this without access to a damage calculator or set lookup (and I don't think I lost to not having them, save for one time), which at least proves that you can collect Starf Berries without that nonsense.

---------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Tailwind

Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Thundurus-T @ Electric Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Volt Absorb
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Grass Knot
- Protect

Record: 215

The loss occurred against a legendary trainer (of course) who brought out Shuca Berry Raikou (with Shadow Ball 2HKOing Latios)/Regice -- after Top had died and E-Gem had been spent on Thundurus -- to win pretty much automatically. The backline cannot do anything against Regice, and injured Suicune loses to Raikou, which the backline also struggles to deal with. I could possibly have avoided the Top KO, though; a reminder to preserve it at all costs vs. legendary trainers.

Protect is very strong on Top and not normally worth dropping. Cune providing Tailwind means that Zapdos doesn't offer much over Thundurus-T, which can run HP Flying since it gets Knot to whack Grounds, resulting in better anti-Grass coverage (the slight bulk deficit does not seem to matter). Volt Absorb is not much of a benefit in practice, but does help occasionally.

---------------------------------

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Levitate
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

Landorus-T @ Ground Gem
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Vaporeon @ Water Gem
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Water Absorb
- Scald
- Helping Hand
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Record: 113

This team feels like it shouldn't even have reached 100. Many battles are smooth sailing, but in those that aren't, ye gods does this tread water. Vaporeon was chosen because T1 Blizzard spam needed a countermeasure and it can normally take two hits, gaining tempo with Protect/HH. IB isn't really redundant when Icy Wind is so feeble even at +1 (but seemed necessary, since the team has no speed control otherwise and nothing even hits 100 base) that quad weaks survive it; one could argue about HP Grass over this. Hydreigon gets a spot instead of Latios here to improve Psychic match-ups and provide better anti-Steel coverage.

The early loss occurred to a combination of threats next to Calm Mind Blissey, which started running over everything with BoltBeam after getting an unimpeded +1 (Gem EQ isn't close to OHKOing and everyone else's damage against it is lol; Landorus was not in the field when it appeared). Overall, Cresselia/Landorus didn't feel like an improvement over Suicune/Hitmontop (both individually and as a pair), so I went back to that.

---------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Tailwind

Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Scrafty @ Dark Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Record: 190

What's better than one Hitmontop? How about two of them? Better yet, one of them can switch into Psychics and demolish them (minding Focus Blast). This team's learning curve is identical to knowing when to set Tailwind; everything else naturally falls into place. Crunch over Payback because Scrafty actually moves before some targets (Slowking...), more so in Tailwind, and the Defense drop can be valuable such as when Rest-looping enemy CalmCune, which is certainly a threat now that I have no Thundurus-T to nuke it. Legendary trainers remain fearsome opponents.

The loss came against a legendary trainer (of course) who led Raikou / Hurrnadus and overwhelmed Suicune with raw force, leaving Hurrnadus to Hurr itself past the Fighters. Backline Articuno had no problem winning against Latios afterwards; 0-1.

---------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Raikou @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Pressure
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Snarl
- Volt Switch

Record: 234

Suicune now has HP Grass (instead of Tailwind). The backline isn't so reliant on Tailwind -- Raikou's 115 speed sure is an asset.

The loss came against a Psychic who led an awful Mr. Mime / Metagross combination that should not have been able to do anything, but Mime set Light Screen and I lost Hitmontop and Latios quite avoidably in the ensuing slog (Top to crit), while Suicune suffered Toxic Orb Trick and got whittled down (Metagross is only 3HKO'd by +1 Scald anyway and Protects like mad). Then I was unable to kill Slowbro with Thunderbolt through Light Screen and it set Trick Room next to Calm Mind Musharna, which crit Raikou in the end for 0-1. gg UselessMush.

------------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Sawk @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Sturdy
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Rock Slide
- Taunt

Record: ~140

The loss came against a legendary trainer (of course) who led that awful Swagger Cresselia that got its self-hits every time, plus Virizion to whittle down Suicune. Couple that with Icy Wind and an adjacent lastmon Latias to kill Latios (which got hit with Icy Wind on the switch because of course the stupid thing stops Swaggering right then) and you're looking at 0-1. Yet another loss that wouldn't have happened with Misty Terrain. But it also felt like Sawk wasn't ideal to improve the legendary trainer matchup, which, as should be clear, is near the top of streak-ending threats.

------------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Scizor @ Steel Gem
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Technician
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower
- Protect

Record: 203

I was playing while pissed off (for non-mons reasons) and lost to a piss team from, I think, Ranger Terran: Serperior/Skuntank/Skarmory/Spiritomb (lol all S). The Serperior dodged Fake Out to hit Cune for huge, then I lost Scrafty to Brave Bird while hoping for the docile Skarmory4 and lost Cune to double-targeting on a Scizor Protect next turn. (I couldn't remember which of the Skuntank sets had Flamethrower, but it most likely wasn't this one, making Protect a misplay.) It didn't go well from there. It felt like I had already exhausted all my luck to hit 200 with this, though; there were multiple 1-0 close calls, including one where Garchomp3 locked into Fire Fang almost beat full-health and Gem-intact Scrafty on flinches, and another sad case where Scizor barely beat +2 Def Stockpile/Charge Beam/Rest Lanturn (no crit across the ~30 Bug Bites) because its routine makes it get Rest-looped instead of killing.

I thought that Latios could be a dead end after all, and started to build without it. The result: a ~100-win streak with Suicune/Scrafty/Thundurus-T/Scizor terminated by a legendary trainer (of course) with Virizion/Tornadus/Entei/Zapdos. Virizion's Protect caused headaches as Cune eventually died to Leaf Blade; then E-Gem TBolt + LO Bullet Punch fell 1HP short of KOing Entei, which Overheated Scizor into oblivion, not that it would have helped much against the final Zapdos2, which Double Teamed thrice and then moved in for the kill. In hindsight, I should have switched out Cune for Thundurus right away, but Zapdos2 still poses problems, to which Latios would have been a good check.

Then I had another idea: why not combine the Lando/Cress and Scrafty/Cune ideas? Cune switches into Water/Ice aimed at Landorus and backline Scrafty glues it all together.

------------------------------------

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Levitate
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Landorus-T @ Ground Gem
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Fly
- Protect

Suicune @ Water Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Record: 187

Yet I lost against an Ice Worker rocking Vanilluxe/Mamoswine/Abomasnow/Froslass by misplaying and trying to save a demolished Suicune at 23HP (fuck Abomasnow's Wood Hammer on principle), which got Scrafty injured instead. Guess what happened: Froslass in Hail. Cresselia got frozen before it could IW, Scrafty got killed before it could Crunch, and Landorus was dead weight. Lesson learned: keep Scrafty the fuck alive against Ice Workers. It's good to see that Lando/Cress got near 200 with the right support, though -- Vaporeon just doesn't move shit like Cune does. Shed a tear for NYPC Growth.

Then I lost again against the same Ice Worker with Abomasnow/Glaceon/Beartic/Froslass at like 75. Cresselia got T1 frozen and never thawed, Landorus only managed to bring Aboma down to Sash with Fly, Scrafty and Cune tried their best but against GlaceTROLL avoiding (for today's Peterko quote) there is no cure, and Cune eventually died alone. Ye gods. Also note Beartic surviving the Gem Drain Punch. Where do we go from here?

------------------------------------

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Pressure
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Scrafty @ Fighting Gem
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Intimidate
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Levitate
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Raikou @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Pressure
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Snarl
- Volt Switch

Record: 105*

A familiar squad, except for Scrafty replacing Hitmontop. I'm growing ever fonder of Scrafty, it's the Incineroar of Gen5 and Drain Punch is great for its longevity, almost like equipping a Gen7 50% berry (missed tremendously here); healing back to near-full with the Gem-boosted hit occurs regularly. Besides, Psychic specialists are all the easier to wear down, whereas the new Fighting weakness (compared to Top) is well-covered by Latios. Flying types get handled by Raikou as before.

This is where I stand right now. I'll probably play more Subway in the future.
At least use the good raikou with aura sphere :D
 
Hello,

I want to submit a finished streak of 174 battles. I got it with a version of a team I posted some time ago, and this is my personal best with a team of my own (I got higher with R Inanimates team). This team functions quite similar like the team of lolnub, consisting of Heracross, Tornadus, Hydreigon and Metagross, but has some advantages as I think. Two things ahead: If you have played Ursaring, everything else appears weak to you. If you play Whimsicott you start pitying +6+6 enemies.

Ursaring @ Toxic-Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4SDef / 244 Spe (4 left, but not in Def because of Download)
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Earthquake (Crunch)
- Protect

Tornadus @ Flying Gem
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Acrobatics
- Taunt
- Protect (Sub)

Nidoking @ Life-Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SAtk / 20 SDef / 196 Spe (outspeeds everything in Tailwind, no Download boost)
Modest Nature
- Earthpower
- Sludgewave (Sludgebomb)
- Icebeam (Thunderbolt)
- Protect

Metagross @ Muscle Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Bullet Punch
- Thunderpunch
- Protect (Icepunch)
First of all, I have no access to Tornadus, so I tried Whimsicott. Often the setter will die anyways in turn 1, so this shouldn’t make a difference and certainly work well enough to prove the concept of the team. However, Whimsi turned out to be of the greatest use, taking major impact of the direction the battle goes, and I am convinced, that it does its job even better than Tornadus could! But more about that below. I tried it with this constellation and got to about 130 wins. The team swept its way, Ursaring was super strong, Nidoking also was super strong, and Metagross cleaned in the end. But the backrow both being weak to ground was too disadvantageous and I started thinking about what I could change. I really did not want to let go of Nidokings power (no access to Landorus), but I tried Hydreigon as a strong, levitating special attacker, and got first try to 174! It turned out I would not miss Nidokings additional power so much, but enjoyed the new resistances very much (psychic being also a thing!) and also the new offensive coverage.
Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4SDef/ 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Tailwind
- Giga Drain
- Encore
- Endeavor (Protect)

Ursaring @ Toxic-Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4Def / 4SDef / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Protect

Hydreigon @ Life-Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Earthpower
- Protect

Metagross @ Muscle Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Bullet Punch
- Thunderpunch
- Protect

(My Meta was a little slower)
Obviously Tailwind + Protect turn one, then sweep with 315BP Facade while Whimsi supports. This works exceptionally well! Encore is just brutal. If one opponent uses a status move in turn one, then most battles end 4/0 or 3/0. Just keep calm in front of +6 somethings and Encore them again when needs be. Often Whimsi survives turn 1, and is all but dead weight then!

However also often, Whimsi dies turn 1. Of course then some bad trading down may happen, but often I get a double KO then, or don’t lose anything.

Some things about the sets:
-Ursaring: Self explanatory. Kills just so many things, including many legendaries, 6/8 Lati@ses etc. In fact kills so many things, that only few things that can KO back are not OHKOed. Outspeeds all but 3 sets in Tailwind.

Whimsicott: Brilliant. Encore almost ensures an autowin if one foe uses a status move the first turn. A grass move is a great addition, because Ursaring likes support against water/grounds and stone mons etc. Gigadrain hits handy OHKOs. I tried Protect over Endeavor, against Fake Out, and while it did not come to use often against Fake Out, it was very useful and got me a streak of about 130. I prefer Endeavor though. With minimized HP Endeavor supports KOs for Ursa even with full HP, which is no uncommon play. Gigadrain and Endeavor together may sound strange, but they never got into their way.

Hydreigon: The new star. Nidoking often fell against Psychics and Ground types, and Bronzong and Bug/Steels were hard to kill. Hydreigon deals with those and other Normal-resists well. Also its semi-legendary bulk is so useful.

Metagross: Glue of the nicest sort.

Hydreigon and Meta also can kill nicely stuff that cannot be hit well with Facade, like Ghosts, Stones and Steels, and especially those that are only neural hit by Close Combat, such as Bug/Steels, Bronzong, enemy Metagross, Aerodactyl, Armaldo, ... Why does no one talk about Armaldo lol. It OHKOs like 2/3 of the leaderboard I think, and is not OHKOed by much there, for instance. The perfect Mon to get traded down.
There is no one single biggest threat, but a handful of troublesome scenarios:

Trickroom:
The usual play is to Protect + something, and then go for priority Encore on the setter the following turn, to nullify trickroom. Usually Whimsi lives long enough to do so. Problematic on its own is just Dusknoir, because it has priority and goes for shadow sneak before I can Encore it.
Fake Out:
Problematic, especially with Endeavor over Protect on Whimsi. Most Fake Out mons don’t go for it though, and try to hit Ursaring with their fighting moves. Infernape looks super dangerous, being able to OHKO my whole team, but he never went for Fake Out, probably since he outspeeds me and can OHKO. However it happened 2 or 3 times, that Whimsi went down turn 1 without setting Tailwind, and this is very stressful…
Sand/Hail setters:
I usually get Tailwind up, but also Whimsi usually dies in this turn. Also Abomasnow and Tyranitar carrying potential sash is bad and can lead to a trade down from there. Luckily the backrow resists well and Ursa otherwise OHKOs everything.
Too much intimidate:
Rather annoying. Salamence for example is dealt with full-HP Whimsi Endeavor and -1 Facade.
Evasion items:
Makes me nervous because I have no 100% accurate move. Hydreigons defensive qualities were shining in contrast to Nidokings.
Other troublesome mons:
Hariyama, Dragonite, Volcarona: Some of the very few that can survive an attack from Ursa while being able to OHKO or being just mean in general.
Terrakion2/Entei3: Outspeeding Ursa after Tailwind. Felt I got lucky with these on my streak. Endeavor can make a joke out of Entei. These 2 are no problem if instead of Ursa one uses Zangoose (see improvements below).
Conkeldurr: Backrow struggles to kill it, and if Ursa is a bit damaged, it may go for Mach Punch for OHKO.
Arcanine: Rather annoying, has Intimidate and Extremespeed. After being brought to 1HP, often I switch to Meta for the incoming Extremespeed.
Sashes, Sturdy, Froslass: I hate Froslass.
Entei, Thundurus, Articuno, Regirock.

Protect + Tailwind. Entei Eruption, Thundurus Sky Drop on Whimsi.

Entei outspeeds and crits Ursa -> OHKO, Thundurus kills Whimsi

4 vs 2

Hydreigon and Meta in.

Hydreigon Earthpower Entei ~ 1 hp, Metagross Iron Head flinches Thundurus! Pure luck. Entei does almost zero damage.

Dark Pulse kills Thundurus, Iron Head finishes Entei. Should have maybe wasted a turn with Protect and let Entei live, because it did 2HP damage to Meta.

Articuno and Regirock (oh oh, now anything can happen. Hydreigon speed ties with Articuno3)

Hydreigon Protect, Meta Iron Head, outspeeds Articuno, but does not kill. Regirock EQ, Meta little over half. Now I have won, Bullet Punch finishes Articuno, Earthpower on Regirock, EQ, then finish it next turn.

That battle involved some critical luck.. Zangoose would have had no troubles here (see below, improvements)
Battle number 174 against
Cresselia, Zapdos, Raikou, Suicune

Psychic into Ursas Protect, Tailwind, Heatwave, Burn Whimsi.

By damage I knew that it was Zapdos2, and because of that, Cresselia1.

Ursa Facade on Zapdos, Whimsi Endeavor on Cresse. Zapdos Heatwave, finished Whimsi, crits Ursa. That brings him into Psychic range, Toxic finishes it.

That was a misplay. I knew Facade was no save OHKO, but I attacked Cresse with Whimsi, because I thought before I potentially miss 2 attacks on Bright Powder I might as well do big damage on Cresse. I should have taken the chance to kill Zapdos. Cresse can hardly hurt my backrow, and would kind of turn the battle into 2 vs 1 while it is on the field.

Backrow in. I hit Zapdos, and kill both.

Raikou and Suicune in. Troublesome. Raikou can hardly hit Hydreigon, so if I can get rid of Suicune with enough health on Hydreigon I should win. It’s not Suicune1. Suicune4 is dead if I double on him. Raikou may survive if I double on him. So I go for Suicune… and Suicune Protects! Ufff. Raikou Thunderbolt on Meta, over half. Tailwind peters out.

Should have protected Meta in the following turn, hoping for a miracle, but I was kind of shocked.

Raikou finishes it. Suicune turns out to be slower than Hydreigon, revealing Suicune3. Dark Pulse does not flinch it. Blizzard into Hydreigon, next turn Raikou finishes it.

Had I protected Meta I could have still won with a little bit of luck (for example Dark Pulse flinch or Blizzard miss).

What annoys me most about this battle, is that I did something that I usually do not do: To kill an undangerous foe. Due to Encore, I all the time have enemies hanging around doing absolutely nothing and turning the battle into 2 vs 1. Or, I had battles with 1HP Endeavor on Eruption-Entei, which cannot even harm Metagross. Similar things go for mons that have Psychic as main attacking move, and where I kill everything around them just to bring Meta or Hydreigon in eventually. And this is what I just could have done here, too, assuming that Whimsi would have hit Zapdos. Then the rest would have been easy.

But it was clear, that Evasion will kick me out at some point (although here it just affected my decisions and not the hitting of attacks lol). Overall the streak had a little lucky here and there. A few times an additional bad incidence would have made it very hard. But I guess that’s just the case especially in gens without Z-moves; there are just not many good ways to bypass evasion. Hitting 174 with the first attempt (the Hydreigon version) however feels like a big achievement and speaks very highly for the team. I had suboptimal IVs, and some improvements can be made, see below.
Jolly Ursaring could be replaced by Adamant Zangoose (Facade, CC, Shadow Claw), which has around the same power, but outspeeds everything under Tailwind. I am not sure though if this is the way to go, because as I said, Ursas bulk lets it live many hits from stuff that survive his hits, and this loss of bulk may come into play often. But maybe Whimsi then gets targeted less turn 1, so this needs to be tried out. If one goes one gen ahead, Zangoose however also gets Knock Off, and now it definitely hits harder than Ursaring. Of course then Meta-mega also joins the party.
Edit: I think one should stay away from Zangoose, because Conkeldurr makes big problems then, being able to oneshot it with Mach Punch. The backrow also looks sad against Conkeldurr. Also Zangoose loses power against Chandelure, Drifblim and Golurk. Being able to outspeed 3 more sets is not worth it I think (mainly for Conkeldurr), because they are not as threatening: Entei gets useless quickly, Manectric also, and Terrakion also can be OHKOed by Meta (or 2HKO by Whimsi).
Edit2: Definitely sure, Ursa is better than Zangoose. There are many battles where turn 1 one loses Whimsi. Ursa surviving weak attacks comes in clutch often and often prevents a trading down against my favor.

What I missed sometimes is a spread move (Nido had sludge wave, which made a difference a few times). With Hydreigon, Meta for example could carry Earthquake, probably over Protect. This would fit perfectly for Endeavor-leftovers. With EQ, Expert Belt gets attractive as well.

I enjoyed the team very much! I hope I do not return to it. I don't see much updates here, so for the moment I will not bother with a prove picture. But I have the loss video saved...
 
Last edited:

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Reporting a new streak of 72 wins in Super Doubles, just high enough to squeak into last place on the leaderboard. Guess I'll have to try and improve on that in due course.

I've been retooling my Lightningrod/Perish Song team, and it's finally to a standard capable of achieving a 70-win streak. I'd hoped to get to 100 or beyond, but one thing at a time. I've been trialling this team for a few weeks now, getting steadily further each time. At least it means farming lots of Rare Candies from that Ace Trainer after battle 28. I'm not as familiar with the Subway as I am Gen III's Frontier, but it's definitely my second favourite facility after that one.

1642029588535.png

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf (Intimidate)
Brave Bird
Double-Edge
Close Combat
U-Turn
252 Att/Speed, 6 HP (Adamant)

Much as I loved Dodrio on the old team, Staraptor absolutely blows it out of the water. The big bird is a one-man wrecking crew, and with Choice Scarf can get a swift kill on turn 1 roughly 90% of the time. Despite Staraptor's generally poor defences, Intimidate allows it to live through most non-STABed Rock Slides and physical Ice moves. U-Turn has incredible utility, especially against bulky physical attackers and opposing Intimidate wielders - deal damage and change places with Gyarados for the double Intimidate to nerf them further. Double-Edge was virtually never used, but very occasionally came in handy against Eelektross or something.

1642029599108.png

Marowak @ Thick Club (Lightningrod)
Earthquake
Icy Wind
Perish Song
Protect
236 HP, 6 Att, 12 Def, 252 SDef, 4 Speed (Careful)

An incredible utility mon and the glue that holds the team together. Careful with max Special Defence and HP investment allows Marowak to sponge all manner of abuse on the special side, while laughing off physical attacks thanks to Staraptor's Intimidate. 4 points in Speed nudges Marowak ahead of a wide tier - Aggron, Probopass, Dusknoir, Armaldo, Golem, et al. Icy Wind is a fantastic utility move; the spread damage is frequently useful and it does a surprising amount of damage against dragons and anything with wings. It breaks Sashes and Air Balloons but also provides useful Speed control which can leave things like Aerodactyl ready to be KOed by Manectric or Gyarados. Even with minimal Attack investment, Thick Club makes it hit incredibly hard; I've had frequent matches where Marowak gets multiple KOs on its own. Protect, of course, is mandatory: Marowak baits a ton of moves, especially when it's already eaten an Ice Beam or similar.

Perish Song really is the icing on the cake though. It's delightful to be able to have a sure-fire way to take down Evasion spammers or bulky boosters like Umbreon or Snorlax. Ideally Staraptor and Marowak can take out the first two Pokemon on their own, but even if the opponent only has three Pokemon left Perish Song is still a viable option: you're guaranteed one kill whatever happens, and if you can switch your own team members out (which is usually quite possible) you're at an advantage. Between Intimidate and liberal Protect usage, it's often fairly easy to stall out a few turns should I need to.

1642029611081.png

Manectric @ Shuca Berry (Lightningrod)
Thunderbolt
Flamethrower
Toxic
Protect
252 Sp.Atk/Speed, 6 HP (Timid)

My backup Lightningrod wielder and the team's sole Special attacker. Manectric is a funny Pokemon. Dead weight in some scenarios, worth its weight in gold in others. Toxic doesn't see much use but sometimes proves useful if Marowak has been KOed or hasn't managed to get a Perish Song off. It's good insurance. Obviously, Manectric tends to Protect in the face of Marowak or Gyarados' Earthquakes - the held item was included as an insurance in case there were ever a scenario it absolutely had to take one, or if an opponent unexpectedly managed to get one in. It's useful, though I can't help wondering if there are better choices.

It works best when paired with Gyarados or Staraptor. When Marowak is on the field Thunderbolt becomes unusable (in Gen V, Lightningrod redirects allies' Electric moves, too) and this is a real pain, especially against opposing Water-types. What often happens is I'll have to switch Marowak out on the same turn as I want to use Thunderbolt. This rarely causes outright problems (especially given Intimidate's utility) but it's a pain, and I wish it didn't have to be so. Still, when Manectric has the advantage, it performs fantastically.

1642029618085.png

Gyarados @ Lum Berry (Intimidate)
Dragon Dance
Earthquake
Waterfall
Ice Fang
20 HP, 252 Att, 20 Def, 32 SDef, 184 Speed (Adamant)

Outstanding cleaner. So, so bulky - the only type of attack it really fears getting hit by is Rock, and most Pokemon who use those moves are either a) nerfed by Intimidate or b) weak to Gyarados' moves. Usually one Dragon Dance is enough to start cleaving through the opponent's team, though I've learned that Dragon Dance isn't always a necessity.

The general strategy isn't too difficult. Turn 1, try to get a kill with Staraptor while Marowak either Protects, Icy Winds, or Earthquakes depending on what's leading. Perish Song generally isn't ever used on turn one. Around 50% of the time Marowak can take out the second mon. Ideal scenario is the opponent sends out something Flying-weak and something Ground-weak. Depending on the backups, either keep attacking or set off a Perish Song. If Staraptor and Marowak can take out all 4 mons on their own, that's when you know it's been a very successful battle.

Gyarados is the go-to switch-in if for whatever reason Staraptor needs to switch out (enemy Pokemon has Intimidate, both leads are Ice-types) as it can obviously come in with impunity on Marowak's Earthquake and generally shrugs off Ice attacks.

What's interesting about the Subway AI is that it's demonstrably worse than the Frontier AI. When I used this team in the Emerald Frontier, opponents would never bother targeting Gyarados or Dodrio with Electric moves. Here, they will - and they will sometimes continue doing so for a couple of turns. This has made things marginally more easy when it comes to prediction. When facing Gardevoir 2 or 4 (for instance) I can reliably assume that it will attempt to use Thunderbolt first.

1642033225477.png
1642033538998.png
1642033841820.png
1642033309644.png
1642033325643.png
Trick Room teams. God, how I despise seeing Reuniclus appear. Trick Room teams are a serious pain in the arse, but generally not an automatic run killer as my team is bulky enough to take hits and hit back for the KO. Liberal Protect usage by Marowak and Manectric helps to run down the timer too. But they can be extremely difficult to handle at times.

1642033192654.png
1642033522706.png
1642033202450.png
1642033292415.png
1642033348145.png
1642033468495.png
1642033498488.png
1642033551184.png
Hail teams. Or Ice-types in general. Just the worst - this team dreads facing them. Staraptor can OHKO several Ice-types with Close Combat, but none of my squad enjoy taking a Blizzard to the face. The good thing is that Marowak can actually survive a hit from most things not named Glaceon and respond in kind. But Ice teams have ended the run several times.

1642033269935.png
1642033283720.png
1642033453276.png
1642033482562.png
1642033986808.png
1642033508590.png
1642033565456.png
1642033575701.png
1642033599179.png
1642034010414.png
1642033585229.png
Legendary teams. Never fun to face. I don't think I've ever actually lost to a legendary team but they're certainly difficult. Most aren't troubled by Intimidate and can quickly overpower my team. It helps that when two legendaries are sent out as leads they're rarely ones which pair well so it's easy to prioritise taking them down.

Can't remember what the lead two were, but I lost Staraptor and Manectric and ended up with Gyarados and Marowak vs Skuntank and Seismitoad. Got stupid and careless and boosted twice with Gyara, assuming that Skuntank - which took a chunk out of Gyarados with Sludge Bomb - wouldn't be a serious threat. Unfortunately, it then got a critical Sucker Punch and though Marowak's Earthquake took care of it, it wasn't enough to 2HKO Seismitoad who dropped Marowak with Muddy Water.


1642032443574.png
 

Attachments

Interesting concept!
At your last writing I wondered if Staraptor does not outclass Dodrio lel. Maybe you have access to the hidden ability Reckless for more damage?
Anyways, does Manectric add so much to the team? Or is it holding up to the lightningrod theme more than necessary? I feel like here is big potential for improvement.
For instance Hydreigon with Levitate, good against Psychics/TR and more bulky in general. Or maybe you go more for perish song and put something really bulky inthere, like Ferrothorn or Cresselia? Or something with Fake Out or Sky Drop, or even a Prankster sub with Tornadus/Thundurus. Just some ideas.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Interesting concept!
At your last writing I wondered if Staraptor does not outclass Dodrio lel. Maybe you have access to the hidden ability Reckless for more damage?
Anyways, does Manectric add so much to the team? Or is it holding up to the lightningrod theme more than necessary? I feel like here is big potential for improvement.
For instance Hydreigon with Levitate, good against Psychics/TR and more bulky in general. Or maybe you go more for perish song and put something really bulky inthere, like Ferrothorn or Cresselia? Or something with Fake Out or Sky Drop, or even a Prankster sub with Tornadus/Thundurus. Just some ideas.
Reckless would be good (I do have access to it) but on balance I don't think it's needed - Brave Bird OHKOs a ton of stuff already, and Intimidate is so useful for general defensive support. It allows the other team members to switch in more safely. Really Close Combat is the move I need extra damage on, it falls slightly short of OHKOing several Ice-types which pose a threat. Hydreigon is an interesting concept (though I wouldn't call it bulky...)

I'm open to improvements where Manectric is concerned though. Gyarados needs Lightningrod to set up so I don't think Manectric is bad for the team, but it's certainly the weakest member. Part of me wonders if I should drop Toxic and go the offensive route with Dark Pulse and a Life Orb instead of the Shuca Berry.
 
I don't know if it mattered, but shuca berry on such a frail mon as manectric to me seems to be wasted.
The only thing which imo speaks against hydreigon is the additional ice weakness. Other than that it has more power and more bulk (yeah, not bulky, but way more bulk than manectric), and levitate. Maybe I am too much on the hydreigon train because it worked so well in my last team, but I think it's worth a try. To me it seems that in your team it would outclass manectric by far, with a life orb having way more power than you are accustomed now for manectric, and for my team I can say, its bulk really came in handy. Also as you say you have problems with TR, hydreigon can stay around against many psychics and ghosts and really hurt them. And staraptor probably removes troublesome fighting and bug mons nicely.
(Or you try some defensive options as I mentioned, but I don't know how well such stuff works in doubles.)
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
I don't know if it mattered, but shuca berry on such a frail mon as manectric to me seems to be wasted.
Yeah, I think you're right.

The only thing which imo speaks against hydreigon is the additional ice weakness. Other than that it has more power and more bulk (yeah, not bulky, but way more bulk than manectric), and levitate. Maybe I am too much on the hydreigon train because it worked so well in my last team, but I think it's worth a try. To me it seems that in your team it would outclass manectric by far, with a life orb having way more power than you are accustomed now for manectric, and for my team I can say, its bulk really came in handy. Also as you say you have problems with TR, hydreigon can stay around against many psychics and ghosts and really hurt them. And staraptor probably removes troublesome fighting and bug mons nicely.
To be honest, given the team's difficulty in dealing with Ice-types, I'm not favourable towards adding a dragon to the squad. I think I am going to give it another go but with Manectric as an all-out attacker with Signal Beam (or maybe Snarl for some additional defensive utility...?) over Toxic and a Life Orb as the held item. Just realised Manectric doesn't get Dark Pulse, d'oh.
 
Scizor is way to good in frontier and subway, it checks some of the most dangerous mons with 1 bullet punch like weavile frosslass aerodactyl archeops alakazam to name a few
 
Hello, everyone!

Posting here to share teams and streak descriptions for 49 Wins on both the Super Single and Super Double Trains in Black. I know it takes 70 for the leaderboards (and they're not being updated, anyway?), but my goal was just the trophies.

I've been 100%ing all my Gen 3-5 games over the past year and a half or so, and that includes their Battle Facilities. It's been a fun learning experience going from only casual competitive knowledge to recognizing exactly what Speed IV I need on my sweeper. At the same time, there's a part of me that still values that sentimental aspect of using Pokemon from my ingame team, or that I caught in the wild, so I've been making my attempts largely with mons that fit those criteria.

I've already made posts chronicling the unlikely victories and tragic failures in Emerald's Battle Frontier and the Platinum/SoulSilver Frontier (plus the Diamond Battle Tower) on the corresponding threads. Gen 5 and the Battle Subway weren't even originally on my radar, but I guess you could say I caught the bug and wanted to conquer another source of bruised childhood ego. Well, teenage ego.

I have no Werster speedrun to link you to this time--I'm sure he'll take a stab at it eventually--but I didn't need inspiration or help. Gens 3 and 4 had pounded me into a proper trainer.

There were some other restrictions just from the age or nature of the games--no Dream World, no Dream Radar, no RNG manipulation. It also took the combined effort of Black, White, and Black 2 to put all the mons together, plus the earlier gens. Ultimately, I'm very pleased with the two teams' performance and feel like I've come a long way from fielding a squad of neutral-nature schlubs. Any feedback is welcome!
Achieved on March 8th.
tyranitar.gif

(Iggy) Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 28 HP / 20 Def / 1 SpA / 28 SpD / 8 Spe
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
excadrill.gif

(Stone Free) Excadrill (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 21 HP / 22 Def / 28 SpA / 9 Spe
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
latios.gif

(PlnetWaves) Latios (M) @ Dragon Gem
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 9 HP / 14 Atk / 8 Def / 11 SpA / 20 SpD
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

I was very amused to open this thread and see this exact team discussed all the way back in 2011. I figured Sand Rush would get abused, and TTar naturally follows, but Latios in back was pretty universal. It makes sense--it resists all of TTar's and Excadrill's shared weaknesses, hits Special to balance their Physical, and is crazy fast, not to mention it gets a kill button in the form of Draco Meteor.

It's not exactly the same as those early teams--for one thing, BW2 wasn't out yet, so no Iron Head on Excadrill. Dark times indeed. For another thing, TTar actually had the Sash on them, plus Counter to cheese out a win on Fighting leads. Seems like it was effective, and Iggy actually hails from alllll the way back in Sevault Canyon, FireRed, so I could've tutored Counter onto it in Emerald had I known about this setup. But I like how this team turned out all the same.

Iggy served me well in Gen 4, particularly the Arcade, and something about having one mon travel through the generations to conquer different facilities just tickled my heart. So here he is, setting Sandstorm in Gen 5. From that point, his job is to (hopefully) take out the lead with sheer CB power and coverage, then let the other two clean up. Why doesn't he have Stone Miss? Because it's Stone Miss. Not to mention it's even more offensive overlap with Excadrill, whereas Ice Punch nails Dragons (particularly Chomp trying to turn Sand around on me) and Fire Punch roasts pesky Steels like Scizor and Forretress. Not once did I feel Stone Edge's absence.

With the prominence of Gen 5 Fighting types, prevalence of Focus Blast coverage, and Iggy's general slowness/neutral-Attack nature/low-BP moves in a fast-paced meta, I expected even the lead matchup to be a gamble at best. But he tore through leads like tin foil, and in fact swept entire teams on more than a handful of occasions even deep into streaks. Apparently GF didn't get the hyperoffense memo and made a bunch of Stall sets that he just smashed to pieces, and of course I relished whenever he outsped a tank--shoutouts to 2HKOing Hippowdon with Ice Punch for the title of Sandmaster.

Excadrill is exactly what you'd expect, packing a Sash to further ensure that the team's crown jewel stays intact and let it SD if necessary. Adamant Exca outspeeds the entire Subway in Sand, including other Excas since none of them run Speed...though if you'll notice, it doesn't actually have a good Speed IV. 9-IV 252 EVs Adamant places Exca at 129 Speed, which in turn becomes 258--which ties the fastest set in the Subway, Choice Scarf Manectric4 with Overheat. I was hunting for this thing in the Relic Passage not three badges into Black 2--I used it on my ingame team--and was geared up for an hourslong affair with the dust clouds, only to be floored when the very first Drilbur was Adamant Sand Rush with perfect Attack and Special Defense. Ties one Pokemon? I'll take it, man.

Even though its job in theory was to SD as it got knocked down to its Sash and then sweep, in practice I was revenge killing their second Pokemon and would've rather had my Sash for the back.

And if anything went wrong, Latios was always good insurance. Despite having been chosen in part for its defensive synergy, this one was so frail that it often got 2HKOd even by resisted Fighting moves, so it wasn't a great switchin. But that perfect Speed, man. Praise be to Synchronize. It was strong enough to get pretty much every kill it needed to, except on targets with heavy special bulk and no weakness to its coverage.

As for the item, Life Orb seemed like the right choice for a while, but I ran some calcs and noticed Dragon Gem really pushed Draco Meteor over the edge in terms of melting neutral targets, whereas LO lacked some power and would've meant even more passive damage on an already squishy mon in the Sand. Specs just squanders the coverage. I considered different coverage options for a while, as well, but in the end, you can't go wrong with BoltBeam. The last thing I wanted was to face a Salamence or Dragonite and have to sweat out a Draco Meteor miss.
Despite being the least valuable member of the team, Iggy kicked so much ass that I often hesitated to sac it off, even against a Fighting lead--which, among other things, did cost me one streak. Fight 43, female Veteran--Jeune, I think--so you know what that means. Legendaries.

Leadoff Virizion--an absolute pain in the ass with its special bulk, Speed, Fighting STAB, and EQ resistance. I foolishly tried to save TTar by switching in Latios on Sacred Sword. I click Psychic for guaranteed damage, and on three out of four Virizion sets, that's the right play. I get the damn Salac Berry one, which now outspeeds Exca even in Sand. Stone Edge crit for the kill, and now I have to pray Sand finishes it off the next turn as Exca SDs--but it doesn't. The real shame is that I tried to cobble together a comeback against the last two, Zapdos and Regice--if Zapdos were a friendlier set, I might've been able to do it--but my predictions just didn't pan out.

In retrospect, Ice Beam would've been smarter because it was a 2HKO without triggering the Salac. But I had actually dealt with that exact same leadoff Virizion set in Fight 28 earlier that streak, and the exact same way, just without the Stone Edge crit, and was pissed to even be seeing it again in the first place. Not that I even knew what set it was until the Salac triggered.

Knowing I could've easily won that fight kept my motivation strong, though. And indeed, I encountered very little resistance on the second streak--very few Legendary trainers or those who could use all four sets of a species. Iggy scored some lucky crits on tanks trying to set up on it, like Curse Umbreon. Fight 48, the last one I was worried about, was even a Psychic, who basically use a small list of slow, bulky Psychic types that TTar just feasts on. They don't even have Focus Blast!

And I wasn't worried about Ingo because Ingo was free. He may not have looked free since his lead Exca outsped and OHKOd TTar, but then my Exca came out, and, well.
ora.jpg
B1 Super Singles.jpg

B1 Super Singles Trophy.jpg
Achieved on March 12th.
thundurus-incarnate.gif

(Aerosmith) Thundurus (M) @ Electric Gem
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 17 HP / 9 Atk / 10 Def / 13 SpA / 6 SpD / 23 Spe
- Discharge
- Grass Knot
- Thunder Wave
- Protect
garchomp.gif

(SlvChariot) Garchomp (M) @ Ground Gem
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 23 HP / 29 Atk / 0 Def / 8 SpA / 12 SpD / 29 Spe
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect
metagross.gif

(Metallica) Metagross @ Air Balloon
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 19 HP / 23 Atk / 26 Def / 14 SpA / 16 SpD / 13 Spe
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
infernape.gif

(StarPlatnm) Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 152 Atk / 106 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 8 HP / 14 Atk / 28 Def / 20 SpA / 0 SpD / 27 Spe
- Fake Out
- Heat Wave
- Close Combat
- Protect

Gens 3 and 4 have no reward for playing doubles, outside of maybe some ribbons. In fact, my only doubles experience going into this was TopOgre Specs Water Spout spam in Battle Revolution. Apparently TTar/Exca Sand Rush teams have found success on the doubles leaderboards, as well, but something just didn't feel right about those shared weaknesses. I wanted a team actually built for doubles, and one assembled mostly in Black as opposed to the Singles team (which came mostly from Black 2).

To some extent, there's also favoritism when it comes to the mon choices--I just really like Chomp and Infernape, for one thing, and Metagross is cool, too. But even if there's better choices--I'm sure there are--they also had positive doubles traits, like Fake Out.

Since I wasn't well versed in doubles, I figured it'd be best not to get too cute with the setup. Thundurus and Chomp lead off with a bread-and-butter DisQuake combo powered up by their respective gems, which together KO the majority of opponents on the first turn.
power-speed.gif

Thundurus's shirtless-buff dude schtick might skeeve me out, but there's no denying its utility. Discharge got Paralysis procs left and right just as a bonus; Grass Knot really helps slice through Grounds; Prankster TWave was an absolute godsend and neutralized so many dangerous leads. Aerodactyl, Crobat, Starmie, Choice Scarfers, you name it. Even if Para doesn't change the Speed order on the turn it's applied, I was blessed with the fully Paralyzed in the most dire of outlooks, including Fight 48. Its IVs are pretty bad, but it's a roamer--I couldn't Synchronize it. When I got a Timid Thundurus that at least beat Base 105s, that was good enough for me.

Spoiled by Outrage's singles power, I expected the worst from Chomp's Dragon Claw and was pleasantly surprised by the solid reliable damage it did. But EQ was of course the star of the show. Rock Slide didn't get much use, but boy, was I glad to have it when I did. An Electric partner really helped wear down dangerous Waters and bulky Steels. And a Jolly 29 IV will always beat out Base 100s by 1 Speed. Oh, yes, Platinum, I learned my lesson.

So what are the back two for? Well, to replace the leads if one dies, for one thing--AB Metagross to continue dodging EQs, and Fake Out Infernape for more Speed/turn control (plus, it can Protect on Thundurus's Discharges). They bring some offensive synergy, particularly Metagross's Ice Punch, which basically exists for Gliscor and Landorus. Bullet Punch's priority has incredible utility that you don't even really think about until you really, really need it. And sometimes it just makes you cackle, like love-tapping Custap Berry Forretress right in its stupid face. Infernape's Fake Out has obvious benefits in doubles, as does Heat Wave's spread damage. Close Combat provides nice coverage on some bulky threats like Normals and Steels, and the defense drop synergizes well with Sash. In a pinch, it can also use the Sash to absorb an EQ.

But really, they exist because both play extremely well against Ice, which Thundurus and Chomp are terrified of. They switch in and resist Blizzard or whatever, then pretty much get guaranteed kills.

Finally, there's Protect on three out of four mons--not just for blocking spread damage, but to keep a key offensive presence safe while their partner pulls some shenanigans. Ice Beam Starmie? Prankster TWave, Protect w/Chomp, let 'er rip Turn 2. More surprisingly, but absolutely essentially, Protect exploits the AI like nothing else. They will almost always attack you if they can kill you, and that goes for both opponents independently. I regularly bought my partner multiple free turns by sitting at red health and drawing double-attacks with Protect, and you'd better believe it saved games.

I'm open to any teambuilding advice, since there's still Black 2 and the Super Multis ahead of me. Zen Headbutt on Metagross didn't get a ton of use since I feared the miss. It was definitely nice to nail Fighting types when the need arose, but the lack of EQ was also noticeable. Iron Head was similarly because I preferred reliable STAB to Meteor Mash's slightly higher power. Metagross's and Infernape's EVs aren't really for any particular benchmarks, either; I just figured Speed was better on Metagross because getting outsped sucks for this team in general (it beats Emmet's Exca and Chandelure, which was a lucky accident), and I used CC on Ape far more than Heat Wave. Again, fearing the miss, but also because the coverage was better. Extra power behind it might've helped, because I needed all 8 PP in a few Curse/Iron Defense/Rest showdowns.

Finally, there's quirks like Infernape often having to compromise Fake Out, because it usually replaces Chomp and Discharge/Protect is a better play. Fake Out seems to be more often seen on leads. And even the mon selection--maybe Scizor over Metagross?
Like Singles, it took two attempts to reach 49, but damn if it shouldn't have been more.

With his brother defeated and the train still speeding along, the soft-spoken doubles master and noted mammone Emmet was forced to take the reins.

Now, Thundurus/Chomp's DisQuake combo started battles off fast and hot. Sometimes it felt like I was bullying my opponent with all the spread damage, free Para procs, and spare crits I racked up, all while outspeeding them. The two leads often won the battle by themselves, taking minimal damage in the process. But when that didn't happen is when things got hairy.

Metagross and Infernape usually cleaned up fine--or more commonly, Thundurus/Infernape or Metagross/Chomp. I lost the first streak in Set 5 just from doubles inexperience--it was Fake Out Shiftry and Marowak4 (Thick Club Outrage). Up to that point, I hadn't realized I could neutralize any opposing Fake Out leads just by double-Protecting Turn 1, so I got bootybanged and couldn't save it with Ludicolo/Curse Quagsire bringing up the rear.

Again, knowing I could've easily won renewed my confidence in this team, and they braved a second streak for the win. And Sets 6 and 7 were absolutely packed with horrific matchups, Legendary trainers, and four-set trainers. I should've lost, man. I should've lost, but they pulled through. Some highlights:
  • Metagross needing to hit back-to-back Zen Headbutts on Toxicroak and Machamp--a fight where I didn't really make any bad plays, but the opposition was just tanky and powerful enough that I couldn't establish a mon advantage
  • Trick Room into Rampardos...Choice Scarf Rampardos
  • Raikou/Latias back with Chomp dead; managed to Prankster TWave them both by dodging a Draco Meteor with Infernape and double-drawing with Protect
  • Carefully negotiating Speed tiers and Paralysis vs. a Specs Zam and Sash Fake Out/Encore Infernape (boy, I miss Sand Rush)
  • Fight 46--Veteran Colombo(?), Regice/Regigigas. Ugh. Even two DisQuakes probably wouldn't have killed these fat hunks of shit. I went full bailout and switched in both Metagross and Infernape. Blizzard, pops Balloon, breaks Sash. No Freeze, but Gigas TWaves Metagross. Double up on Regice, Infernape gets TWaved, Heatran comes out, it Overheats Infernape in a disgusting flex. Metagross gets Confuse Ray'd into hurt self, no damage dealt.
Chomp comes out to EQ, so who's last? Landorus! With a paralyzed, Balloonless Metagross unfit to Ice Punch a Dratini, much less Clash over here. But it still might be useful, so I switch Thundurus back in to heal confusion, scouting the set with Chomp's Protect. Turns out it's Landorus1 with EQ and Rock Slide. At least it wasn't Lando2 with Scarf Outrage. Gigas is about to get its act together, so I TWave it (it's not like I can TWave Lando) as it TWaves me right back and Lando drops rocks on my head, which Thundurus barely lives. Now I face down two tanky legendaries with a crippled genie and a dragon who's used to bullying Fire types. At this point, I decide my best hope is spamming Rock Slide to whittle them both down and fish for some flinches. Not likely when Gigas is gearing up for some full-powered Drain Punches.​
But wait. Thundurus barely survived, but it survived. And it's paralyzed, but it's not dead!​
miracle-max-princess-bride.gif
For three turns, that beautiful blue bastard shrugged off paralysis and drew attacks with Protect. Well, drew Rock Slides instead of the EQs and Drain Punches they would've been. Chomp didn't care. And when Protect failed, I got my lucky Flinch (and Lando's Rock Slide missed). Dragon Claw took Lando out of the picture, and Metagross/Chomp finally, finally got to gang up on that damn Regigigas.​
FrankNiceBlobfish-size_restricted.gif

Emmet required much, much more forethought than he should have. Chomp basically solos his whole team, particularly Eelektross who can't damage it at all, but that meant protecting it was also top priority since the other three didn't match up all that well. How could that be an issue? Well, I don't want it getting crit, obviously, and Haxorus can OHKO. Why would it ever get the chance to attack? Because with my offensive IVs, with an absolute minimum damage roll on both Discharge and EQ, Haxorus would survive with one (1) HP. If you think that can't happen, it's the same as a Gen 1 miss. Oh, yeah, it can.

Fortunately, thanks to TWave, Protect, Fake Out, and Bullet Punch, there were ways to ensure a victory no matter the permutation of Turn 1 outcomes. And what did Emmet ultimately lead with? Exca and Chandelure, of course. The fight was over right then and there.

He had his chance to vanquish me, and he blew it. Where I once saw determination in his eyes, now he was just a piece of shit.
B1 Super Doubles.jpg

B1 Super Doubles Trophy.jpg
B1 Trainer Card.jpg

The final piece to the puzzle.

Well, I say that, but I want to complete the Super Multi Train for the final trophy, as well. Linking Black with Black 2 will make a nice 2-for-1 deal.

I intend to use the same Doubles team for Multis and don't expect it to be too different. Sure, one side can go down and leave the other 1v2, but that cuts both ways, so I figure it evens out. I'll be taking a break for a while before I tackle it.

Since this is just for fun, I'm open to any RMT advice or pointers for Super Multis. Thanks again to all the online resources like the trainer/set lookups and turskain's damage calculator.

sayonara da.jpg
 
Last edited:
Update: Achieved a 49-streak in Super Multis on the first try! That's not to say it went smoothly, but a win's a win.
thundurus-incarnate.gif

(Aerosmith) Thundurus (M) @ Electric Gem
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 17 HP / 9 Atk / 10 Def / 13 SpA / 6 SpD / 23 Spe
- Discharge
- Grass Knot
- Thunder Wave
- Protect
garchomp.gif

(SlvChariot) Garchomp (M) @ Ground Gem
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 23 HP / 29 Atk / 0 Def / 8 SpA / 12 SpD / 29 Spe
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect
metagross.gif

(Metallica) Metagross @ Air Balloon
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 19 HP / 23 Atk / 26 Def / 14 SpA / 16 SpD / 13 Spe
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
infernape.gif

(StarPlatnm) Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 152 Atk / 106 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 8 HP / 14 Atk / 28 Def / 20 SpA / 0 SpD / 27 Spe
- Fake Out
- Heat Wave
- Close Combat
- Protect

Same team as Super Doubles, like I said. Gems DisQuake with an anti-Ice back, no alterations. As expected, Zen Headbutt came in handy pretty much only once or twice, but there was only one time I (sort of) wanted EQ. No real Speed tier or damage roll snafus, either. Bullet Punch continues to find new ways to come in handy.

Black (left side) ran Thundurus/Metagross, and Black 2 (right side) ran Garchomp/Infernape. Aside from synergy, this was because Metagross could not Protect against Discharges, whereas the Air Balloon let it roll with Chomp's EQs. The squeeze on your switching options and the potential to knock out one side for a 2v1 more frequently benefited me than the AI, which I guess makes up for having to sit through animations.
No deaths, but this run alternated between long stretches of ease and brief moments of peril.

First, I nearly died in what I think was Set 1, Fight 7, with Infernape ending up solo against a Nidoqueen that dropped Chomp prior with Ice Beam, plus whatever its partner was. Heat Wave was the only reason I got out of that jam, finishing Nidoqueen and damaging its partner so my Sash could keep me alive that turn. CC did the rest.

I was fully expecting some trouble in the intervening Sets, especially a pair of Legendary trainers--thankfully, there doesn't seem to be any theming to the opponent pairs. In fact, the only Legendary user I ran into the entire streak was Veteran Jeune again, leading with Blizzard Regice for extra pain. I just bailed out again and double-switched, made easier when its partner was a defensive Serperior instead of Choice Scarf Heatran or some other ungodly monstrosity. Regice was easily taken care of the following turn, and her Latios didn't fare much better. The scariest moment otherwise was realizing you can't pick "Rest" and having to plug in my 3DS mid-Set. So yeah, 2-6 were a breeze.

Set 7 made up for that.

There's no easy way to summarize it, but three of the seven fights were absolute nightmares for different reasons, even with no Legendaries in sight. Fight 1 (43) in particular took about half an hour just poring over what plays to make--Levitate Bronzong and Glaceon, from trainers who could use any set. Trick Room would be awful, but so would EQ (on the back two) or Explosion, or Psychic moves; most Glaceon sets run HP and/or Defense investment and so can't be OHKO'd, and most run Blizzard. Even Frost Breath would have wiped out both leads, and one has Ice Shard. Both mons could potentially have Quick Claw, and Glaceon could have Sash or Bright Powder--not to mention there's no cross-trainer Item Clause, so they very well both could have had Quick Claw. Some Glaceon sets could've died to DisQuake, but I decided the risk was too great and made another bailout double-switch.

Next turn, I doubled up on Glaceon (one set knows Detect!) because it was the biggest threat, while Bronzong revealed itself as Bronzong3 (Quick Claw physical attacker with Explosion, but no Trick Room) and Zen Headbutted Infernape to kill it after the Blizzard chip. The Glaceon trainer was a Nursery Aide (I think) who uses all sets of every Eeveelution, so out came Espeon. Not great, since it outspeeds Chomp, but at least it couldn't kill without a crit. I didn't want to kill Metagross, so I switched Thundurus back in for the EQ. Turns out I didn't have to, because Espeon used Telekinesis on that slot, of all things. Absolutely bizarre AI. It lived EQ as Chomp and Zong traded some, and then I Protected with Chomp to bait Espeon's attack and let Thundurus finish it and finally chip Zong.

Turns out I didn't have to do that, either, because Zong decided that turn was time to boom. Good thing I Protected on at least one mon, because Thundurus is so squishy it died from full. Somehow the Gen V Explosion nerf never helped me, even in another fight where an Exeggutor crit Chomp with it. So it came down to Metagross and Chomp, both half health, versus Mystery Mon in back.

Another Metagross! Seemed good, except...I didn't have my Balloon anymore, or my Gem. And they pretty much all run Meteor Mash and EQ. If I killed my own Metagross with EQ, the enemy one would tank it and just finish Chomp off. It's the one time EQ on my own Gross might've helped. Instead, my only option was to go for the Flinch, stacking Iron Head and Rock Slide.

...Got it. Iron Head/Protect just to chip it down some more (it tried to Meteor Mash Chomp, alright), and after looking up when spread damage counts as a single target, I went for one last Bullet Punch before Chomp cleared the field.

Phew. I figured that would be the final boss. A lot could have gone wrong, but it was mostly bad matchups.

Surprise! Fight 47 was awful, too. It should've been easy--a Walrein and Togekiss--but it was the Lax Incense/OHKO move/RestTalk Walrein3, and it dodged Discharge. Cue Chomp getting Sheer Colded and Thundurus getting TWaved. Now I knew it was Togekiss1 (no attacking moves) or Togekiss4 (Air Slash). At least Discharge paralyzed it, too, which mattered in a big way.

Follow Me would've ruined things, so I took a merry little jaunt to Bulbapedia to discover that both it and Fake Out were +3 priority. But it didn't use it, which told me it must have been using Air Slash and trying to kill Infernape. Emphasis on trying, because it got fully paralyzed for the next few turns--preserving Ape's Sash, which also became absolutely essential in the end.

Not to be outdone, Thundurus missed a Grass Knot and then got fully Paralyzed itself, letting Walrein Rest and then Sleep Talk to call...Rest. My heart can't take this. And Thundurus couldn't take the Sheer Cold it rolled the next turn. Fuck's sake, it would've been immune to Fissure! Infernape ended up having to CC it twice, and Metagross had to Ice Punch + Bullet Punch to finish off Togekiss as Ape got knocked down to its Sash.

Now for the other two mons! One was Lanturn, potentially with Surf/Discharge--so dangerous I had to double up on it with CC and Zen Headbutt, both of which were ~46-55% damage ranges. Luckily, I got the rolls. This was the point Togekiss actually went down and Ape's Sash went off, since I was trying to make it 2v1.

Oh dear God, what was last? This was Pilot Chand, who could use basically any set of any Flying type. And Fly it did--Fly Unfezant. Metagross was done playing games and won, then lost, both appropriate halves of that Speed tie. Ape even got the double Protect. Finally, some relief. Rather than bad matchups, this was a case of getting lucky after getting unlucky.

There was some other fight in between that got a little hairy, but I was frazzled enough by the other two that I don't remember. Cue the Subway Bosses, who once again should've been free, and I spent quite a lot of prep time planning out how to manage any leadoff situation given the 1/256 chance Haxorus lived DisQuake. Most of those plans focused on Prankster TWaving Emmet's Archeops, which would've been a joke if only Thundurus had a perfect Speed IV. Damn roamers.

It ended up being Haxorus/Eelektross, so basically a free win. Apparently free wasn't good enough for Emmet, who promptly switched in Archeops to eat a Discharge and die. I know Chomp's untouchable, but you could've TBolted Thundurus, bro. Have some dignity.
B1 Super Singles Trophy.jpg

B1 Super Multis Trophy.jpg

B2 Super Multis.jpg

B2 Super Multis Trophy.jpg

And Memory Link.
B2 Super Multis Memory Link.jpg

Shame you don't get any Trainer Card levels in BW2 for the Battle Subway. I don't own White 2, so I'm stuck at 4/5 (the Entree one).
That's it for Black.

4/28/2022 UPDATE: Got the trophies in Black 2, as well! Same teams, two tries each. Great to see their consistency.
Super Doubles: Achieved on 4/23.
B2 Super Doubles.jpg

B2 Super Doubles Trophy.jpg

Super Singles: Achieved on 4/27.
B2 Super Singles.jpg

B2 Super Singles Trophy.jpg
And as always, thanks for all the helpful resources!

Now if only a certain other pair of protagonists joined forces...
 
Last edited:
Battle Subway- 209 Win Streak
Super Multi Train with another human partner

Username: fooey21

1653254926204.png

Poli (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EV’s: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spd
IV’s: 31, 31, 31, 30, 31, 31
Nature: Timid
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Electric]

1653255074769.png

RockLobsta (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EV's: 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Spd
IV's: 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31
Nature: Adamant
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower
- Sword Dance

Username: Yoti

1653255297573.png

Mamba (Ludicolo) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EV's: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spd
IV's: 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31
Nature: Modest
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Fake Out
- Ice Beam

1653255379070.png

Queendra (Kingdra) (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EV's: 4 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
IV's: 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31
Nature: Adamant
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Iron Head


After seeing how much success other teams were having with rain, my friend and I decided to give it a try, and with amazing results! (For real tho).

Funnily enough, we had also been running a sand team with a Landorus and Tytranitar lead, that was centered around a Storm Drain Gastrodon gimmick which ended at 120. After nearly throwing in the towel, we decided to just run the then-record holding rain team for fun, never expecting a run this long. Of course, shout outs to Pepdawg18 and Spidey2064 for devising this nasty combo. This team smacks, enough said.

We did change one thing however, that being Iron Head on Kingdra instead of Rain Dance, which we never had to use during the run.

1653254453467.jpeg


1653256008267.jpeg
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Wondering if anyone could have some tips for me trying to reach 200+ wins in Single Battle Subway.

I'm using this team:
Dragonite Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252Spe
Nature: Adamant
~ Dragon Dance
~ Outrage
~ Earthquake
~ Fire Punch

Suicune Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 236 HP/244 Def/30 Spe
Nature: Bold
~ Substitute
~ Calm Mind
~ Rest
~ Scald

Scizor Sitrus Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 244 HP/252 Atk/12 Spe
Nature: Adamant
~ Swords Dance
~ Bullet Punch
~ Bug Bite
~ Roost

I always lose around the 140s, to usually a legendary team. This team has real problems if there are two of the 3: Tornadus/Zapdos/Thundurus.

For example, my last loss to a Lady:
Life Orb Tornadus
Rock Gem Regirock
Lum Berry Zapdos

Tornadus Hurricane does 40 % to Multiscale Dragonite, I DD
Outrage kills Torn
Regirock takes 55% from Outrage
Rock Slide kills Dragonite
Suicune surf kills Regirock
Zapdos Tbolt takes Suicune down to 30%
Scald does around 25% to Zapdos
Tbolt kills Suicune
Scizor dies to Heat Wave

Basically the only way I could've had a chance is if the Tornadus missed a Hurricane. But I always seem to run into some formulation of this team. Any tips from someone who's faced a similar issue? Thanks in advance!
 
Well done Fooey!

That's a nice team Potatobagel. I think the first thing you should consider is your playing style. In the battle you showcased, you definetly should have used sub with Suicune, and tried to set up.

252+ Atk Regirock Rock Slide vs. 236 HP / 244+ Def Suicune: 30-36 (14.6 - 17.5%)

Suicune always outspeeds, and after Rock Gem, the most offensive Regirock with Rock Slide will never break your sub. After 6 Calm Minds and behind a sub, you shouldn't lose to Zapdos in the back. In general, always try to set up as much as you can, even if it seems like overkill, since you never know what's next.

Team-wise, you should consider a few changes. First of all, Dragonite really doesn't need both Fire Punch and Earthquake. Outrage, DD, Fire Punch and Roost can set up further on more things, and the Lum Berry compensates for the lack of Substitute. The only thing you can't hit for neutral damage with this set is Heatran, which Suicune can always deal with.

In my humble opinion, you should also maybe replace Scizor with something else. With these stall teams, what's most important is setting up. Suicune is a great partner to Dragonite, since they complement each other very well, and you can setup against most subway sets. The third Pokemon must be able to deal with the few that pose a threat to the duo, namely strong physical rock types. What do you do against this in the lead position?

Rampardos @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Head Smash
- Stone Edge
- Hammer Arm
- Scary Face

Dragonite and Scizor can get OHKOed, and Suicune is at the mercy of a crit (even if it doesn't crit, it's not won either...). There are many similar threats to Ramparados. Scizor is strong, but my point is that it brings little to the table. Consider Curse Registeel and PP Stall Gliscor. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, but I think they are better-suited for the Dragonite-Suicune combo.

Hope this helps!
 
Thank you for the response, Meuhforever. I will definitely be sending up my Curse Registeel from HGSS. Wondering what a good item for it would be, since Suicune holds the Leftovers? Deciding between maybe an Occa, Rawst, or Sitrus Berry. Or maybe moving Leftovers from Suicine to Registeel, and putting a Chesto Berry on Suicune?

Registeel
31/29/31/17/30/30
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 148 Def
Careful Nature
-Iron Head
-Substitute
-Amnesia
-Curse

I think I will keep EQ on Dragonite though. I like that the majority of battles go much faster and this team can be weak to Electric types. Plus I don't see many opportunities for Dragonite to heal/cases in which a Roost is better than +1/+2 outrage.
 
I would be inclined to move the leftovers to Registeel, and put a Chesto on Suicune, as to provide repeatable healing for both of them. Most offensive rock types also carry EQ, which you will need to switch stall with Dragonite. That's quite difficult without leftovers.

The other (better, perhaps) option is to replace Amnesia with Rest, and giving Regi the berry and keep the lefties on Suicune. Your Registeel already has a careful nature, so by re-EVing to max hp and spdef, it would become suffuciently bulky on the special side (and even if that's not enough, Suicune will probably take care of it) without needing any boosts. Rest cures status, justifies using Chesto (leftovers, despite being much better than Sitrus, are somewhat awkward on Registeel, due to the nearest multiple of 16 being far away from 252 hp EV), and lets you actually setup to potentially +6 with a sub, which would never happen otherwise.


I am myself working on both Singles and Doubles. Depending on how much I play in the near future (or if I lose -_-) I might make a post about these streaks pretty soon.
 
I am glad to report ongoing streaks of 200 in singles and doubles! I’ll talk about my singles team for now, and the doubles team in a later post. I was aiming to wait for 300 wins, but a rather big time commitment has appeared, so I haven't been able to battle much. My apologies.

Salamence’s Tea Party

373.gif

Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 36 SpD / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Substitute

477.gif

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Level: 50
EVs: 212 HP / 220 SpD / 76 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Protect
- Substitute

113.gif

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Minimize
- Soft-Boiled
- Substitute

This team style heavily draws from successful Maison and Tree teams: a lead with good matchups around the board and 2 solid backups to stall troublesome sets. This rather intuitive strategy flourished in gen 6-7 for many reasons: megas made for incredibly consistent and solid leads (and the possibility to effectively use 2 abilities on the same set), and Truant Durant + Dragonite was dead because of fairies, forcing players to reconsider their teams. Even without megas, this strategy seems to work well in the Subway.

Salamence used to be a Multiscale Dragonite with the same moveset and item, and very similar stats (naturally a bit bulkier, and a bit slower). However, strong rock type attackers forced me to use a curse Registeel to tank some attacks, which quickly proved too unreliable. While I have found alternatives to Registeel since, I decided back then to switch Dragonite for Salamence instead. Intimidate is the sole reason it is used over Dragonite: it lets Gliscor and Chansey stall many key physical sets, and does not fear Mold Breaker. I don’t have much to say about the moveset: it’s the quintessential tryhard dragon dancer. Lum Berry mitigates Outrage’s drawbacks, lets you setup on faster Pokemon spreading status, and protects against Effect Spore / Static / Poison Point / Flame Body. There is no room for EQ, but its use would be extremely fringe anyway, since you setup to +6 an overwhelming majority of the time. Of the 27 sets (!!!) that can survive +6 Outrage, 9 of them are a 62%+ range, and 17 of them can have Sturdy, so EQ wouldn’t have helped anyway. The EVs, I must admit, are probably far from perfect. I am considering a faster Jolly version. This is an early guess, which I will not hesitate to revise. (any help is welcome)

Gliscor is the PP stalling magician, weathering even the most fearsome sets. As I will explain later, it sucks that it can’t hit Skarmory, but replacing EQ by Aerial Ace would not help much, and would be detrimental to many other matchups. I don’t think I need to talk too much about the set; stall Gliscor is self-explanatory and already well-known. The EVs are also somewhat of a guess here: I am rather satisfied with the special defense investment, but I haven’t seriously considered the other options yet. A more physically defensive set would more effectively deal with DD sets and fast Swords Dances.

It would seem that Chansey’s qualities have only been exploited in later gens because nobody seriously tried it before, and not because of the subway’s specific environment being hostile towards it. If anything, power creep and the introductions of more moves that ignore Minimize made Chansey weaker after the subway. With Eviolite and defense investment, it can withstand even the most fearsome special attackers while also handling many physical attackers (and Psyshock), using Natural Cure to heal status. While I originally considered Suicune in its place, Chansey’s immediate bulk proved more useful. While it can’t boost itself offensively, it can still setup really well: +6 evasion and a substitute are often enough to end the game. Aura Sphere and Sacred Sword suck, but they are a rather rare sight, and most other moves can be stalled regardless of their power with a 66.67% miss chance and Substitute spam. Having to use Eviolite over Leftovers is incredibly unfortunate, but sadly necessary to keep the desired bulk. This means that Chansey can be somewhat fragile in hail and sand, though. EVs are a mess again, no surprise here. I don’t think HP optimization for weather chip is worth it, but I don’t know how fast it should be exactly.

Stall, setup something to +6, win

I know that a streak of 200 and about 300 battles of testing on emulator is not enough to know about every situation, but here’s what I have found so far.

1: Dragon Dance
By far the scariest single move. Most setup moves can be dealt by stalling with Gliscor, but DD can become dangerous extremely quickly, because the opponent can get a hit before Gliscor can make a substitute. The course of action depends on the exact set, but Intimidate “forces” turn 1 DD on most enemies, so in general Salamence uses Sub-DD-Outrage on slower enemies, and switches to Gliscor on faster ones. Sets that have a OHKO even through Intimidate, like Haxorus 547 and Latios 984, can be beaten respectively with turn 1 Outrage (not the best solution, but a solution nonetheless) and turn 1 switch to Chansey.

A special mention goes to Tyranitar 553 (Rock Slide, Crunch, Ice Beam, DD) for keeping my blood pressure high. Ice beam is a 56% range, deals 67-80% to Gliscor, and Chansey doesn’t want to rely on its evasion boosts for 25 PP of physical attacks in sand, and while being slower. After thinking of countless methods to deal with it, I realized that none of them were viable against other Tyranitars. When I don’t know the set, I must use a turn 1 Substitute. This buys me one turn to hopefully figure out what I’m playing against. Against set 553, if it immediately uses Ice Beam, Salamence must be sacrificed on turn 2 by using Outrage. Gliscor will finish it off. This is by far one of the worst set in the subway, since it “forces” me to lose a member early on without gaining any opportunity to setup. At 200 wins, I have a 31% chance of never encountering one in the lead spot before battle 1000; my fingers are crossed.

3: Terrakion-959 (Swords Dance, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Sacred Sword)
Terrakion acts similarly to a DD set, since it naturally outspeeds every member. The only difference is that it gets +2 Atk when using Swords Dance instead of +1! The problems with this set are numerous. Yes, it always uses SD on turn 1, which would mean that (Substitute), DD, then Outrage would safely win. Unfortunately, every trainer that can have Terrakion has all 4 sets, and the other 3 demand an immediate switch to Gliscor. The problem with switching to Gliscor against set 959 (apart from the chance it gets a flinch on turn 2) is that you can’t stall all of its moves. Gliscor, with PP ups, can Protect/Sub for 32 turns, while Terrakion has 35 attacking PP (excluding EQ), plus the turns it decides to use Swords Dance, which are dangerous to predict. The PP staller gets PP stalled! This means that you need to use Toxic on turn 2, before Terrakion becomes too powerful, and stall 6 turns. If you don’t want to risk using Substitute (crit + flinch chance), you can always Protect, then switch around (applying Intimidate) and come back for another Protect. There’s a lot of RNG in this matchup, and that’s why it’s a set I dread.

3: Skarmory 759 (Stealth Rocks, Spikes, Whirlwind, Toxic)
Being mainly a Doubles player, I find it funny to fear such a set, but it is quite a pain to deal with. Setting up is near impossible without some Minimize luck at the very beginning of the fight, and Gliscor, the only member that doesn’t mind taking the hazards, can’t even do anything to a Steel/Flying type. Chansey, despite taking the most damage on entry, can always use Softboiled to heal (after all hazards are up, taking a Toxic is fine, since Skarmory will always use Whirlwind after, healing the status) but the real danger is poisoning Salamence. Always using substitute on entry is not sustainable, as you will have to use Roost eventually. The way to navigate this lead is to chip it gradually with Seismic Toss and Outrage, to kill it as soon as possible. One can also switch to Chansey turn 1, and try to Minimize while Skarmory is busy laying down hazards. This matchup is heavily dependent on the AI (which I have a hard time understanding for this set) and what Whirlwind throws in, so preparation is somewhat meaningless.

I have considered another backup of Magneton and Suicune. Magneton is a hidden gem, one I shame myself for not considering earlier (it seems like it would perform much better than Registeel, so maybe going back to Dragonite is viable after all). It effortlessly deals with rock and dragon attackers (including Tyranitar 533), ruins DD opponents with Thunder Wave, and baits Earthquake for Salamence to stack Intimidate triggers for an eventual setup. Its companion, Suicune, is equally competent, but I most definitely do not need to preach its virtues on this forum. While I want to explore Gliscor and Chansey for now, I will keep Magneton and Suicune in mind if the former pair proves to be lacking in some way.

I sincerely believe there is potential for a long streak. The overwhelming majority of foes are trivial to deal with, and even troublesome sets are met with incredible resilience. I will try to play even more optimally as the streak matures. Against many sets, I used to be satisfied KOing the opponent’s lead with only a Gliscor behind a substitute. However, whenever possible, I will now take the time to properly PP stall so that Salamence can setup to +6. While I am not overjoyed having to do this, as battles were already quite lengthy, I believe it will become necessary to consistently secure victories.

See you at 500!
 
Are either Clefable or Audino viable in Battle Subway doubles? If no, what outclasses them? If yes, which one is better and what is its best moveset?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 5)

Top