Resource BDSP UU Viability Rankings

[6Roggenrolas]

Welcome to the BDSP UU Viability Ranking thread. The goal of this thread is to sort Pokemon that are viable in the tier into ranks that reflect their usefulness in descending order, with players being encouraged to post their thoughts on these ranks and the viability of Pokemon here. These discussions will influence future updates to the rankings. The viability of Pokemon and their roles within the metagame can and will change over time, so we will adjust the thread accordingly during each update.

This list will be comprehensive for the whole metagame. There is no distinction by role- for example, Tentacruel can be ranked in the A- tier as a supportive presence, Porygon-Z can be ranked in A- as an offensive presence, and Chansey can be ranked in the A- tier as a defensive presence.

While well-informed posts from the community will be a vital component of determining rank changes, we will also have a council of experienced players to discuss and vote on the ranking of Pokemon. Never hesitate to post and contribute your opinion, so long as you are an experienced BDSP UU player familiarized with the forum rules. There is no set schedule for updates, so they will depend on how the metagame is developing. The council consists of the following users:

• Toy Time King
• TyCarter
• Grabby

BDSP UU Viability Rankings (last updated: 05/10/2023)​

S Tier
Entei
Milotic

S- Tier
Flygon
Mew

A+ Tier
Blastoise
Crobat
Snorlax
Suicune

A Tier
Mismagius
Porygon-Z
Shaymin
Swampert

A- Tier
Cresselia
Drapion
Forretress
Gardevoir
Hippowdon
Metagross
Roserade
Rotom-Mow
Sharpedo
Tentacruel

B+ Tier
Cloyster
Empoleon
Espeon
Gyarados
Kingdra
Medicham
Slowbro
Umbreon
Uxie
Yanmega

B Tier
Absol
Bronzong
Exploud
Machamp
Quagsire
Registeel
Sceptile
Venomoth
Zangoose

B- Tier
Chansey
Ditto
Froslass
Honchkrow
Rhyperior
Torkoal
Ursaring
Venusaur
Zapdos

C+ Tier
Aerodactyl
Granbull
Primeape
Toxicroak
Typhlosion
Victreebel

C Tier
Arcanine
Leafeon
Shiftry
Weezing

 

[Tbolt]

Initial thoughts on this VR:

• I find it very interesting that you included Ambipom and Arcanine (both mons agreed to not be super great) but you left off Uxie (implying it's unviable). I actually prefer Uxie as a support mon over Mew because of Uxie's greater bulk (though Mew will get moves that Uxie doesn't, like Will O' Wisp). I wouldn't put Uxie higher than Mew since Mew can also run an offensive set, but Uxie should be considered on the list at least. I would personally put it in the A-/B+ range.
• The top of the list I mostly agree with, especially the mons in the S-A+ range. I'm not 100% sure about Cresselia being splashable on as many teams as Entei or Mew, but it is a very strong defensive presence in the tier, and it deserves to at least be up there.

• B+ Rank:
  

  

  Granbull

  Man are Stall teams ever starved for a Heracross switch-in
• Also, sun should be somewhere on this list (until unless all of you are considering tiering action against sun, and are preemptively leaving it off the VR, in which case I want to hear why Uxie should be banned).
• Also, not to be picky, but yall misspelled Gyarados

 

[Liquidocelot]

Milotic should be A+.

It's the premier bulky water in the tier. It has reliable recovery, excellent utility, an option to go offensive with Competitive on hazard stack.

However and most importantly is again it's defensive utility. Being one of the few mons who can take on Banded Entei, all day long. It also can take on Blastoise and haze back as well, while Blastoise can barely touch it at +2. Same with Cloyster and pretty much any physical or special attacker that isn't super effective and it's arguably the best stop to set up sweepers in the tier.

It's moveset isn't amazing but it really doesn't need more than 4 moves to do its job better than the rest of the tier..

 

[KrookKing]

Would make an argument about Swellow being ranked as a Guts user considering Ursaring is ranked probably because of Quick Feet right?, but thats just my biases showing.
ANYWAYS though good list and I also Agree ranking Milotic to A+ for the same reasons of its a good bulky water with recovery that has good sp atk for mons like Mismagius/Yanmega and the like and can hit them back with a Nasty Mirror Coat if packing.

 

[6Roggenrolas]

Magneton should at least be ranked to B
It removes steels like empoleon, metagross, bronzong, and forrtress, Which greatly improves dangerous mons who get walled indefinitly by them like shaymin or cresselia.
It usually safely traps these mons and kills them easily except metagross where magneton has to run magnet rise for it.
Its movepool is pretty bad but stab T-bolt coming off of 120 spattack gets the job done

Magneton seems nice but it has a lot of problems. Forretress can just escape with Volt Switch, Metagross and Bronzong can kill with Earthquake unless you go Magnet Rise (on top of Metagross potentially speed tying though that's rare), Rest variants of Registeel get into a stall war with non-specs variants and can also KO non-magnet rise variants with eq. This makes Empoleon basically the only thing Magneton is really good at trapping (and it still needs to find a way in since a strong water move melts it and non-specs tbolt isn't an ohko).

But besides being an iffy trapper, the main problem with mag is that there’s not much point to its role of removing steels in a tier where the best and only real dragon option is part Ground and even gets Fire coverage if you hate Bronzong. Sure, there are other mons like Shaymin and Cresselia that dislike Steel, but considering that none of the Steels utilize recovery beyond Registeel (easily the most niche/rarest Steel I consider viable in the tier) they can wear them down and win against them 1v1 with the exception of maybe banded Metagross. Cresselia can overpower them all eventually with CM backed Psychics or Moonblasts while eating their hits, and Shaymin can just pull classic SubSeed shenanigans without much fear of death from their attacks. Especially considering how ineffective Magneton is against the tier as a whole and how some teams don’t even bother with a Steel type, it’s really not worth it to bring when you can usually slightly tweak your mons to work around the existing Steels anyway.

 

[TTK]

I've been wanting to write up this post since like Friday but I've been going out everyday and coming home at midnight. Anyway, I don't have any plans today and I've still been playing UU, seeing how BDSPPL is going for UU and I really think this VR needs some updating when PL is done. As a council, we are considering tiering action when PL is done but this post isn't to discuss that yet since I don't believe it's fully finalised. My intention of this post is to give my thoughts on some VR changes because this is slightly outdated in my eyes.

Rises

A+ to S-: I lowkey think Entei being in A+ is a miss from us as the council. Entei is clearly in a league comparable to the likes of Blastoise and Heracross and its influence on the tier is unmatched in my opinion. If you've ever seen any UU stats, Entei is either first or second place and iirc, Entei is sitting at ~50% usage. It's just so good at what it does and often facilitates many a team to have a bulky water else they just lose to Sacred Fire spam. I don't think I really need to go in-depth about Entei, we all know what it does and how great it is in the meta, let's allow the VR to reflect this.

C to B-/B: Absol is better than Honchkrow. Stronger atk, faster, stronger dark STAB, still has the same priority that Honch has but the only thing Honch has over Absol is Flying STAB. I don't think that Flying STAB is all that important in UU when there's common Flying resists everywhere. Absol doesn't have to worry about rocks either and whether you're using Band or LO, Absol can demolish defensive cores without much issue.

B to B+: I've always enjoyed using Crobat in this meta, the tools it has to succeed are really good. The fastest pokemon in the meta without a scarf, bulky enough to take Guts Heracross' moves and threaten it out and recovery. That's all it really needs to do well. It's one of our tier's best pivots and I think B is not representative of its viability in this tier.


Drops

A- to B+: Never really been a fan of Empoleon to be honest. It feels incredibly awkward to use in this meta. Water/Steel is a great defensive typing but it is surprisingly detrimental to Empoleon in this meta versus if it had a pure Water typing. You're a steel type that cannot check Roserade well, you're a bulky water that cannot check Entei. You are also weak to Fighting and you have no reliable recovery. I don't think defensive Empo is all that good in UU but offensive Empoleon has its place I feel.

A- to B+: I love using P-Z in UU, it's one of my favourite wallbreakers in the tier and it's always been good but I feel like meta trends haven't been the kindest to P-Z. Specs has definitely gotten worse over time I feel, more Mismagius, more steels. Things like Metagross and Bronzong can't take Shadow Ball but every time you're not clicking STAB Tri Attack, you aren't dishing out as much damage as you could and using Specs is a prediction all the time. I am preferring Yanmega as the premier special wallbreaker since it's faster and you don't need to predict into resists thanks to Tinted Lens. Nasty Plot P-Z is probably the best set right now, since you do disgusting damage at +2 and you aren't in as bad of a situation if you click the wrong move into a switchin.

B+ to B/B-: I also have never been a fan of Gyarados in this meta at all. You honestly have to try really hard to let DD actually sweep you and if it does, I think that's a builder issue more than a skill issue. Gyarados at +1 will never actually steamroll a competent team. Its speed tier isn't bad but there's a lot of common scarfers faster than it after a boost and can threaten it badly. Scarf Missy can either d bond or kill it with tbolt guaranteed after rocks, Rotom formes just volt switch, Scarf Heracross even stone edges it. Not to mention, bulky waters just sit on this mon for days: Milotic hazes, Suicune can roar, Swampert takes 1 hit and yawns. It's just incredibly inconsistent without any of its swsh coverage options like Power Whip.

B to C: This mon is still ranked? Crazy.

Other noms that I can't be bothered to explain

• B+ to A-
• A to A+
• A to A+
• B+ to B/B-
• B to B+

Thanks for reading!

 

[Tbolt]

Imo we should update the VR now that Heracross is gone and Celebi has dropped, as well as actually getting a chance to properly rate Shaymin.

 

[TyCarter]

Imo we should update the VR now that Heracross is gone and Celebi has dropped, as well as actually getting a chance to properly rate Shaymin.

We're actually working on updating the VR as of right now.

 

[TyCarter]

Anyways I need to stop procrastinating and actually update these rankings with the Heracross ban and Celebi's arrival. Also, there will be a C+ and a C in our VR now as several pokemon find themselves sitting there to warrant a split.

Rises:

A+ > S-
A+ > S-
A > A+
A > A+
A > A+
B+ > A-
B > A-
B+ > A-
C > B
B > B+
UR > B
UR > B-
UR > C+
UR > B-
UR > A (recently released at the time of first VR)
UR > A+
B- > B
B > B+
B+ > A-

Drops

C > UR
A+ > A
A > A-
A- > B+
B+ > B
B+ > C
B > C
B- > C+
B- > C
A- > B
B- > C
B > C+
B > B-
B- > C

Side Note: Sun as a playstyle (, , , , , ) is B rank.

As always, feel free to ask us about any questions, particular reasoning for certain placements, potential nominations for a future update.

 

[KrookKing]

Was Heracross/Mence ban that beneficial to Sceptiles rise all the way to B?

 

[TyCarter]

Was Heracross/Mence ban that beneficial to Sceptiles rise all the way to B?

No Sceptile already had legitimate success on it's own before the Heracross ban that I thought it was kinda silly that we didn't rank it before.

 

[KrookKing]

No Sceptile already had legitimate success on it's own before the Heracross ban that I thought it was kinda silly that we didn't rank it before.

oh okay, thank you

 

[Tbolt]

I don't know if this is only my opinion, but I don't know if Flygon is head-and-shoulders the best Pokemon in the tier. It's great, sure, but I don't see it to be better than Blastoise, Mew, or Snorlax to where it deserves its own tier.

Flygon is great against offensive teams, but leaves a lot to be desired against bulkier teams. In particular, Scarf Flygon is pretty weak, and while it beats frailer offensive threats like Espeon, bulkier offensive threats like Shaymin take nothing from Outrage, and walls get endless turns against Flygon to set hazards.

DD has similar problems. It can bluff Scarf, and getting the DD on an offensive team is a great position to be in, but many teams have a bulky core that prevent them from losing too much against it (unless Flygon gets 2 boosts). In comparison to something like Blastoise, which has great utility cleaning offense and defense up, or Kingdra, which will break defense in 1 turn and offense in 2, this sent isn't particularly special.

Granted, Flygon is probably the best Scarfer in the tier (since it does fit on a lot of teams), and that's why it's great. I just don't think it deserves to be the only Pokemon in the S rank.

 

[yonitet]

We all know that UU is home to many bulky Waters and Steels that make balance cores nearly unbreakable. This favoratism towards balance has all but left archetypes like BO in the dust, but there are actually a few Pokemon that can be of great assistance when it comes to breaking these cores and even their offensive pivots like Flygon (<3).


Toxicroak currently resides in NU and is very often overlooked in higher tiers like UU due to it's frailness, lack of immidiete power and lack of speed. Funnily enough however, Toxicroak completely sits on most balance cores consisting of bulky waters like Milotic and steels like Metagross, Empoleon and Forretress. It has essentially free entry against Milotic thanks to Dry Skin, and can easily poison it, set up a Swords Dance or a Substitute to wreck havoc. Unlike other Pokemon that can sit on Milotic for free, Toxicroak loves fighting against Steel Types thanks to it's fighting STAB and Swords Dance. I've been recently experimenting with a SubPunch set with Toxic that can literally 6-0 Balance, especially thanks to Miloic's willingness to swap into physical threats like Metagross, Flygon, Entei and Snorlax. Toxicroak's moveset also allows for customisation to let it hit more pokemon effectively. While most Toxicroak sets are walled by poisons like Crobat and Tentacruel, it can easily slot in Stone Edge or Earthquake for them. Crobat is notable for being an extremely hard matchup for Toxicroak due to it's Typing and Infiltrator, but with the right teammates it can be dealt with. Stealth Rocks Metagross for example doesn't care one bit about Crobat and can Stealth Rock on it for free, allowing Toxicroak to potentially break it with repeated assaults.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspuu-1630740991
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspuu-1627234390-zxg61q48his0bhvt2uofbabbwg8y6czpw

Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 64 SpD / 136 Spe
Careful Nature
- Focus Punch
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Poison Jab

 

[yonitet]

As you might have seen in the replays from my Toxicroak post, another mon i've been playing around with is Moltres. With the right team support, Moltres can easily dominate a lot of teams just due to it's sheer stats and power. Unlike it's twin, Zapdos, Moltres keeps it's flying coverage in both Hurricane and Air Slash to help it out in dealing with Fire resistant Pokemon like Milotic and the everpresent Flygon. Moltres' speed tier is noteable as it ties it with threats like Roserade and Porygon-Z, both of which it handles pretty thanks to it's natural bulk and high special attack. With Roost it can stay alive throughout a game and easily pivot in on walls thanks to U-Turn. With a bulkier spread, Moltres can utilize it's abillity Flame Body to effectively punish contact moves; especially U-Turns from opposing pivots. WIth invetment, Moltres can easily survive 2 Outrages from Flygon, Brave Birds from Crobat, Scalds from Milotic etc. Hurricane and Fire Blast's high BP mean that Moltres doesn't actually have to go fully offensive in order to deal out large quantities of damage, meaning that there's more room to run bulk on it as advised.
Of course, Moltres requires a lot of team support to work effectively, but if used correctly it can easily best the scariest Pokemon in the tier. Due to it's 4x Stealth Rocks weakness it is of course very hard to facilitate, but experienced players should be able to make use of it's full potential with teammates like Magic Bounce Espeon to plant a seed of doubt in the oponent's mind to deter them from even attempting to set up Rocks in the first place.
Overall i think Moltres is extremely underrated, and in my opinion, far better than Zapdos, especially since UU houses some of the best hazard control in the likes of Defog Flygon, Empoleon, Crobat and Mew, while also packing a few Rapid Spinners.

 

[Tbolt]

Alright, so it's been nearly a year since the last VR slate has come out. In that time, UU Open II has happened and Raikou and Celebi have left the tier, so it's time that we put out new viability rankings for the UU tier:

Complete List

S Tier
Entei
Milotic

S- Tier
Flygon
Mew

A+ Tier
Blastoise
Crobat
Snorlax
Suicune

A Tier
Mismagius
Porygon-Z
Shaymin
Swampert

A- Tier
Cresselia
Drapion
Forretress
Gardevoir
Hippowdon
Metagross
Roserade
Rotom-Mow
Sharpedo
Tentacruel

B+ Tier
Cloyster
Empoleon
Espeon
Gyarados
Kingdra
Medicham
Slowbro
Umbreon
Uxie
Yanmega

B Tier
Absol
Bronzong
Exploud
Machamp
Quagsire
Registeel
Sceptile
Venomoth
Zangoose

B- Tier
Chansey
Ditto
Froslass
Honchkrow
Rhyperior
Torkoal
Ursaring
Venusaur
Zapdos

C+ Tier
Aerodactyl
Granbull
Primeape
Toxicroak
Typhlosion
Victreebel

C Tier
Arcanine
Leafeon
Shiftry
Weezing

We opted to rank the various Sun abusers separately, both to reflect their effectiveness in sun as well as their potential viability outside of it.

Changelog

Rises
A+ > S
A+ > S
A- > A+
A- > A
A- > A
B+ > A-
B > A-
B > B+
B > B+
B- > B+
B > B+
C > B
C+ > B
B- > B
C > B
C > B-
C > B-
C+ > B-
UR > B-
C > C+
C > C+
UR > C+
UR > C+
UR > C+
UR > C
UR > C

Drops
S > S-
S- > A+
S- > A+
A+ > A
A > A-
A > A-
A > A-
A- > B+
A- > B+
B+ > B
B > B-
B > B-
B > B-
B > B-
B- > C+
C+ > C