Metagame BDSP RU (Cresselia + Gyarados Ban @ Post #112)

TyCarter

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I'm not gonna comment on the results of the suspect test itself, what's done is done. Besides the obvious point of the reqs being insanely annoying to get for an insanely dead ladder. The timing of the suspect test was pretty bad given RU had quite literally lost two staples in the tier in Sharpedo and Uxie who were huge parts of the metagame with Sharpedo literally being the second most used Pokemon in RU in the month of February so naturally, for a lot of people, they most likely had to restructure stuff and see what could work in its place. Also, the highly requested NU ladder coming in on basically the same day suspect testing opened up did not help with the ladder activity either.

Also on a side note, manual weather is insanely potent in RU and honestly could very much (if it hasn't already) become a pretty popular playstyle in the tier all things considered which 5Dots showed.
 
I love how this last commentary has focused around how the suspect was stupid and bad planned. Which I ofc agree but besides Tuthur no one has touched the mon itself and there isnt really justified arguments on dnb. Like "I did my run and it didnt feel broken" its just your take, which is ok but its not an argument on its own. For me while trying to get reqs which I gave up ladder is ass or just playing casually. Exploud is hella stupid, more playing with it that against it tbh. You don't really need much to get it in safely and the fact that it will force a sack unless Chansey or Mr. Mime is just nuts. I ended up using Exploud as a way to weaken spdef walls like cradily, slowking or steelix to make another special sweeper to clean. And exploud just need to click the right button once, I think Chansey-lure sets are just mid cuz theres no reason to do them as Specs just does better against everything else.

If you werent struggling with exploud is because u were running either HO which still, exploud can at least take a hit and claim one from full on most common mons in ho/weather based w/e. Or u were using semistall shit with chansey and other garbage. The fact that the tier is biased into those archetypes because Exploud just chunks on balance and bo is shit. Exploud will never sweep, but it will always make progress on any team because it forces sacks or at least to get a kill on the opp no matter what. I think thats enough reason to see it as busted. And for a future development of the tier, seeing less Chansey and just not let this tier die. It should have definetly been banned.
 

TyCarter

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Lmfao RU finally got the Exploud Answer it badly wanted with Registeel dropping down. That thing will be a strong pairing with the likes of Granbull, Chansey and Mantine most likely. It's a little passive but the tier probably ends up being better as a result.

What if Exploud Suspect Voters were playing 4D Chess this whole time by not banning Exploud

Ditto joining RU will also make things rather interesting as well. As well as the curious case of Froslass constantly being stuck in between UU and RU.
 

Sputnik

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Just gonna give my thoughts on a few mons.

:ss/nidoqueen:
This is the undisputed best mon in the tier rn imo, it does just about everything you could hope for and is ridiculously splaslable. Earth Power combined with BoltBeam hits the entire tier, so the last moveslot is flexible and makes queen even harder to deal with. You can run rocks, which is great bc queen beats most of the removal, Superpower to beat Chansey, or Sludge Wave to pressure Mesprit or Granbull. Queen also feels quite effective in most matchups no matter which of these you choose just based on how threatening it is with its first three moves alone. Its also hard to OHKO for much of the tier and is a ground that is also a fighting resist, which is invaluable utility in the current meta. Definitely the best mon in the tier imo and one to watch in the future.

:ss/registeel:
Well this just dropped and it's...ok? It's a very solid check to Exploud, Swellow, and Glaceon while being generally hard to kill and also being a rocker and....honestly it doesn't do much else. It's super passive and basically needs to run Tbolt to be even close to an acceptable Stealth Rocker because it loses to Mantine otherwise and it still loses to other removal options like Claydol. Its passivity also makes it free entry for Machamp and Nidoqueen as well as several other dangerous breakers if they predict correctly. That being said, teams that can get around this passivity issue adore what it offers defensively, its just nowhere near as splashable as some thought it would be when it dropped.

:ss/mesprit:
Me and TTK have been using this thing a lot but I haven't seen too many other people mention it. Fat Mesprit is super cool in this meta, as it can check a variety of dangerous threats, most notably Nidoqueen, Machamp, and Medicham while also having the bulk to take hits from stuff like Raichu and Omastar despite not being a true counter to them. It also can put rocks down, pivot with U-turn, or use Healing Wish to bring back a breaker or sweeper from the brink. This all combines for a utility mon that works great on offense and bulky offense, as it gives these teams some buffer while having extra utility that lets these teams keep the pressure on. Offensive and Scarf sets are also decent in their own right but defensive sets are surprisingly splashable in this environment.

:ss/probopass:
Registeel dropping has given this thing a narrow but legit niche imo, as it can trap Registeel while also pivoting with Volt, setting rocks, and checking other normals like Exploud and Swellow. This makes it a decent choice for VoltTurn teams that need some defensive utility and absolutely require Registeel removed, such as if this team is running Swellow or Exploud as its main breaker. Still far from good, as it doesn't really trap Lix and is rather easy to Volt block, although Earth Power and Body Press can pressure Nidoqueen, Rhyperior, and Steelix decently. You could also run Air Balloon if ur worried about this ig but I haven't tried that yet. That being said, certain teams do appreciate the tools that Probo offers, so it does have a legit place in the meta now imo.
 
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TTK

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Reviving this thread here but yes I want to start discussion on Nidoqueen. The more I play and see more games with Nidoqueen, the more I'm convinced this mon is just unhealthy for the tier in the long run.


Nidoqueen is one of RU's strongest offensive threats, I would even say it's the strongest offensive threat in the tier since it can just hit every single mon in the tier really hard thanks to BoltBeam + Ground STAB and all those moves are Sheer Force boosted. This leads to the lack of defensive counterplay I find trying to handle Nidoqueen. Chansey is considered a "switchin" yet Earth Power into Superpower kills it. Spdef Gastro is a switchin yet it's forced to Recover to stay healthy and the Nidoqueen user is always in an advantageous position when you can just switch into something that can handle Gastrodon. Sputnik had been experimenting with a spdef Mesprit set, which can take boltbeam pretty well but now your Mesprit becomes a worse fighting check. Other than those 3 mons I mentioned, everything else is at the mercy of Nidoqueen even worse.


Now since you can't handle it well defensively at all, it comes down to offensively checking Nidoqueen. It's not the fastest mon in the tier but it has decent bulk for an offensive mon meaning it's often not dying in one hit to anything that's faster than it and if you don't kill Nidoqueen, expect to drop to it in return. BDSP lower tiers have had this issue where there's mons in certain tiers that have no good switchins at all and defensive teams are just made unviable or just straight up worse than offensively inclined teams. I've used RU stall to get reqs and it was used last week in PL and stall just has no way to deal with Nidoqueen since Superpower is becoming standard and Chansey just dies. I had to rely on Nidoqueen vs Nidoqueen in order to stop it. Now think about it like this, if stall has no answers, balance doesn't have any answers.


Now don't think that I just want stall/defensive to become stronger, stall can still handle stallbreakers like Machamp and Swellow alright but nothing handles Nidoqueen defensively and I just personally believe a mon that just has a chokehold on a tier's defensive answers shouldn't be allowed in a tier because it just enables other mons to do what they do without any sort of difficulty.


Hopefully this invites some discussion.
 

mushamu

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hey ive been playing this tier in bdsp pl and i just wanted to talk about/nominate spiritomb to A/S rank.

:dp/spiritomb:
I think spiritomb defines this tier. Whenever i build a BDSP ru team, its one of the best picks to put on a team just because of how many things it defensively answers and how good calm mind is as a wincon. Having a ghost/dark type in this tier is strongly recommended to not forfeit to medicham and spiritomb fits that bill perfectly. Spiritomb has a lot of sets u can run on it, there's calm mind with resttalk, calm mind with wisp, defensive wisp with hex, the list goes on and on. Even if it doesn't outright win, it's still extremely useful for pp stalling with pressure and rest against things like vaporeon. Not much else to say, just an extremely good glue mon that should be ranked higher due to its splash-ability and versatility imo. Spiritomb is definitely just as good as, or even better than Sableye.

Also I think nidoqueen is healthy for the tier; it has a lot of offensive answers that are easy to fit. As for defensive answers, Specially defensive vaporeon is a good answer to it + more spdef helps against mons like rotom, exploud, and whatnot. Superpower is rather harder to fit compared to other moves imo and it doesn't come in on that much without taking a fuckload. Putting pokemon like mesprit, cb primeape, moltres, as well as medicham and gallade are usually enough for it as far as counterplay goes considering how fast paced BDSP ru is as a tier. The latter reason is why I don't really see nidoqueen as unhealthy and on par with other breakers like exploud, rotom, gallade, medicham, and primeape.

Here are my teams from BDSP PL that i built if anyone wants to try them out. It's been a while so these might be different from the original teams but i tried to remake them as accurate as possible:

Week 1 Stall vs Danny:
:ss/aggron: :ss/vileplume: :ss/sableye::ss/vaporeon: :ss/gligar: :ss/ditto:
https://pokepast.es/1be1626b218c4709

Week 2 Balance vs Sputnik:
:ss/steelix: :ss/xatu: :ss/vaporeon: :ss/primeape: :ss/moltres: :ss/rotom:
https://pokepast.es/bbc64478abe8e495


Week 3 Balance vs gorex
:ss/venusaur: :ss/spiritomb: :ss/claydol: :ss/registeel: :ss/kabutops: :ss/primeape:
https://pokepast.es/4c3eb07a15b95c72

Week 4 Balance vs Ryuji Sempai
:ss/aggron: :ss/xatu: :ss/spiritomb: :ss/gastrodon: :ss/exploud: :ss/victreebel:

https://pokepast.es/0b77e27d196cd369

Week 5 Balance vs Hurtadoo:
:ss/steelix: :ss/spiritomb: :ss/lumineon: :ss/moltres: :ss/granbull: :ss/gallade:
https://pokepast.es/fe6c752101a64e04
 
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TyCarter

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Alright so the tier literally decided to gain like a million new mons from drops.

Honchcrow I can't imagine it being allowed to stay in RU for long. Besides Granbull, not a lot of things can exactly stand up to it. Gyarados because the tier really needs another setup sweeper. I'd be curious to see what the council opts to do with those two.

Froslass is another spiker that was fluctating between RU and UU for a while but a fun mon to have back.

Bronzong and Cress are fat mons that could act as checks for Exploud (spdef cress gets 3HKO'ed by specs boomburst) and Nidoqueen which is interesting. Nidoqueen was problematic for a while but when u also factor in Slowbro somehow dropping, the tier might have gotten even better. Bronzong being around means Nidoqueen may have to consider running fire coverage.

Quagsire as an unaware wall is gonna be fun too and stall gains another glue they can put to use. Also toxic spreader is nice.
 

5Dots

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Going to throw in a couple noms for the VR:
:Regirock: UR -> B-
Sun is a pretty good playstyle from my experience - most teams are balance offense or are bulky, but Regirock is likely the best sun setter in the tier thanks to Sturdy, decent invested offensive presence, and good bulk to back it up. This means that it will almost always get Sun up for 8 turns, and usually even get Rocks as well if it isn’t facing a Pokemon that can cleanly 2HKO it (which is a good number of Pokemon). I was surprised to see sun abusers like Victreebel and Leafeon being used much, if at all, and speaking of Chlorophyll mons…

:VIctreebel: UR -> B- and :Leafeon: UR -> C :Shiftry: UR -> C
These three Chlorophyll Pokemon are great at what they do. Victreebel’s raw power allows it to power through many Pokemon that fall victim for its STABS + Weather Ball, such as Registeel and Bronzong. This is especially prominent given how there’s many more physical walls rather than special ones. If Chansey is out of the way, most Choice Scarf users won’t be able to damage it very well or are too slow to outspeed it! Leafeon‘s niche is through Synthesis and being a physical Chlorophyll sweeper, which allows it to break through Chansey much better. Although Leafeon has a much narrower movepool and struggles to break through physical walls like Sableye and Vileplume, the Chansey matchup still appeals considering most Chlorophyll sweepers are special. While Shiftry hates the lack of Knock Off and Heat Wave, it tends to perform nicely outside of Sun, utilizing Sucker Punch against faster threats and Explosion to discourage Stealth Rock being removed. I think it performs worse than Victreebel but has the same potency as Leafeon, as it can be hard to deal with without a Grass- and Normal-resist. Quagsire in general benefits the playstyle greatly as it’s another physical wall they can run all over.

252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rotom: 290-343 (120.3 - 142.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Exploud: 300-355 (85.9 - 101.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mantine: 146-173 (39 - 46.2%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Leafeon Solar Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 684-807 (97.1 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
 

TTK

Narmaya. That's it.
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Okay everybody! Right before the BDSP Send Off Tournament starts, we are essentially doing balancing of the tiers to maximise player experience. BDSP RU has frankly been in a shit spot excuse my language for quite while, since July drops came and because the activity was pretty much non-existent, we did not do anything about it, especially after Exploud suspect. For that, I must apologise.

Moving on from that...

:xy/cresselia: :xy/gyarados:
Cresselia and Gyarados have been quickbanned from BDSP RU via council vote, effective immediately!
1665148926623.png
Thanks to 5Dots and TyCarter for voting with us.

These two pokemon in particular have pretty much shifted RU into an unplayable tier. Cresselia is too bulky for this tier, it often doesn't find itself 2hkod by any offensive threat in the tier depending on what defensive stat it invests into, the lack of pokemon with Toxic means Cresselia sets up Calm Mind without any issue and proceeds to just sweep teams. Cresselia also made BDSP RU stall, something I can say was a solid archetype in the tier, into something that easily became the best archetype in the tier and something that the average team could never win against in conjunction with pokemon like Registeel, Chansey and Quagsire.

Gyarados on the other hand, despite its issues in UU thanks to the plethora of bulky waters, RU does not suffer from that problem. Vaporeon would eventually get overwhelmed by boosted Earthquakes and Gyarados also just sets up on Vaporeon and Vaporeon has to fish for burns with Scald, something that Substitute and Lum Berry sets don't have to worry about and Mantine takes massive damage from Stone Edge. Slowbro and Slowking also lost to Substitute DD sets. Gyarados was pushed over the edge because of its ability Moxie, where its checks were unable to handle it if it had enough attack boosts. Gyarados' only real counter was Quagsire, since Unaware ignores its boosted attack and Waterfall is a roll to 4hko. Gyarados strained the teambuilder to the point that every team that wasn't stall pretty much had to carry some sort of Gyarados check, whether that was Scarf Rotom or the aforementioned Quagsire or running a combination of pokemon, which either leads to just hard-stall or losing hard to specific threats.


In terms of what happens next with this tier, we are going to try to have some samples, update the viability rankings which are incredibly outdated, be on the lookout for pokemon like :honchkrow: and :quagsire: to see whether those two become unhealthy pokemon in the tier. Again, this tier could've been in a much better spot earlier and hopefully with these changes, whoever wants to actually play the tier will have a much better time. Thank you for your patience.

Tagging Kris and Marty to implement thanks.
 

TyCarter

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BDSP RU Sample Teams

Hello all, these are long overdue but we finally have some sample teams for BDSP RU! We were able to gather teams that we felt were a good starting point and also a nice way for people to have teams to use for the ongoing BDSP RU Open. Team pastes will be in the sprites!

:volbeat: :venusaur: :victreebel: :shiftry: :regirock: :leafeon: - Manual Sun by 5Dots

:Claydol: :Mantine: :Ludicolo: :Volbeat: :Kabutops: :Qwilfish: - Manual Rain by 5Dots

:Froslass: :Nidoqueen: :Absol: :Sceptile: :Primeape: :Zangoose: - RU HO by TyCarter

:Machamp: :Swellow: :Mesprit: :Nidoqueen: :Skuntank: :Gastrodon: - Guts Spam by TTK

:Magmortar: :Rotom: :Primeape: :Steelix: :Vileplume: :Mesprit: - Magmortar VoltTurn by TTK

:Moltres: :Venusaur: :Aggron: :Claydol: :Vaporeon: :Spiritomb: - Specs Moltres and Band Aggron by TONE

:Sableye: :Hariyama: :Nidoqueen: :Chansey: :Rotom: :Sceptile: - RestTalk Hariyama balance by outbackrabbit

:Torterra: :Registeel: :Rotom: :Qwilfish: :Primeape: :Absol: - Double Dance Torterra SpikeStack by outbackrabbit

:Sableye: :Quagsire: :Xatu: :Granbull: :Chansey: :Registeel: - Demon Regi Stall by TyCarter

:Steelix: :Miltank: :Absol: :Rotom: :Venusaur: :Slowking: - Growth Venusaur Balance by Leru

We will keep updating these as time goes on. Feel free to send in submissions to either me, TTK, or TONE and we will look over them!

 
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TTK

Narmaya. That's it.
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After a whole year we have a new updated Viability Ranking for this tier.

BDSP RU Viability Rankings
S Rank
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Nidoqueen

A Rank
A+
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Absol
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Exploud

A
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Bronzong
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Froslass
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Gastrodon
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Granbull
1683217178436.png
Houndoom
1683217230851.png
Machamp
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Mesprit
1683217274590.png
Primeape
1683217294904.png
Quagsire
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Raichu
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Rhyperior
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Rotom
1683217378653.png
Sableye
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Slowbro
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Slowking
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Torterra
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Venusaur

A-
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Chansey
1683217520712.png
Honchkrow
1683217541597.png
Registeel

B Rank
B+
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Magmortar
1683217602324.png
Medicham
1683217631058.png
Spiritomb
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Swellow
1683217661575.png
Vaporeon
1683217678724.png
Victreebel

B
1683217707653.png
Aggron
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Charizard
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Cradily
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Gallade
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Hariyama
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Hitmonchan
1683217810838.png
Hitmontop
1683217834223.png
Moltres
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Omastar
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Qwilfish
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Sceptile
1683217916416.png
Shiftry
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Skuntank
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Steelix
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Tauros
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Vileplume
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Xatu
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Zangoose

B-
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Bibarel
1683218050720.png
Claydol

C Rank
C+
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Aerodactyl
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Kabutops

C
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Cacturne
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Ditto
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Exeggutor
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Jolteon
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Leafeon
1683218272305.png
Linoone
1683218296741.png
Smeargle

D Rank
Everything else.
 

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TyCarter

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:xy/Absol:
Absol in BDSP RU

Now that BDSP RU Open has finished and BDSP Grand Slam finished, I wanna talk about Absol's presence in the tier. It was a mon that was a bit under the radar for most of BDSP RU's existence for a variety of reasons such as :Kingdra:, :Venomoth:, :Sharpedo:, :Exploud: and even :Cresselia: and :Gyarados: for the five minutes they were in the tier. I should preface by saying that these are my own thoughts and may not necessarily reflect my fellow council member's views on Absol.

It was always considered a good Pokemon and it was #4 in usage with a 66% win rate in the first BDSPPL. Its best set was generally SD Scope Lens with Night Slash since it could cheese its way past most checks thanks to super luck and STAB Sucker Punch. The other important element to note is that it can choose between Iron Tail and Play Rough for coverage to handle the few checks it does have namely :Granbull: and fighting types that resisted its STAB respectively. It also turned :Sableye: into setup fodder and is a good check to manual weather teams. Knock Off is also just good general utility for non-scope lens sets. However, it is worth noting that BDSP RU gained a major counter to :Absol: in the form of :Quagsire: near the end of BDSP RU's time during CG as unaware and it's bulk allowed it to check Absol even with crits factored in. I do believe there is more room for exploration in this tier with that being said.

However with that said, Absol has trouble entering the game since it's very frail and does need 1 turn of setup which it can't always get and it does need that SD Boost, especially against bulkier threats in the tier such as :Rhyperior:, :Aggron: and :Steelix: along with its speed tier being middling and it has to make correct reads on whether or not to sucker punch in some instances although its reward is huge and it has no shortage of pivot partners that can get it in safely with that said.

Replays showcasing Absol's typical interactions (and potential in some cases).
Showcase 1
Both players brought Absol and outbackrabbit's Absol is a major threat to Ryuji's team if not dealt with appropriately and Ryuji's team doesn't have too many good options for coming in on Knock Off and has to sac Qwilfish while Ryuji's Absol is able to force major progress against Gastrodon and get a revenge kill on Jynx

Showcase 2
This replay also shows us Absol can help make earlygame progress as well and it is not limited to being a lategame sweeper as it was able to take out two mons early on in the match to get ahead early

Showcase 3
Here, this is what I mean by Absol being able to pick and choose what can check it, alongside the element of scope lens crit cheesing. My opponent goes into Granbull thinking he could safely take on Absol as I went for SD since it gives my team major trouble, however his plans goes haywire when I show Iron Tail as a lure and to add insult to injury, I got extra mileage out of Absol by taking out Nidoqueen with a crit sucker punch which normally doesn't kill from near full to force major progress.

Showcase 4
This is basically Absol's ceiling as far as what it can do with Scope Lens along with why I think it's extremely silly to deal with, it got a free setup opportunity after I lost the speedtie to opposing scarf rotom, I am able to safely setup and also get favorable odds to crit cheese Primeape with Sucker Punch. It would lead to a sequence where I am able to get the Moltres read correct, and then also got the trick read correct and promptly swept.

Anyways I'll probably talk about some other noteworthy stuff in BDSP RU some other time. (Maybe after BDSP PL concludes) There's probably a lot of room for metagame developement, experimentation and optimization and hopefully we see some interesting stuff in BDSPPL.
 
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TyCarter

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I have a question here. Why should I run venusaur over something like vileplume or torterra? are not they better defensive mons?
Great question, Venusaur's best applications lies in its offensive capabilities. It's an excellent manual sun abuser and its growth sets are pretty good even on non sun teams, and has a respectable speed tier in the tier that outspeeds notable threats such as :Nidoqueen:, and :Absol:. I will also note that it's an offensive grass with respectable bulk which is something another offensive grass in :Sceptile: lacks.
 
Great question, Venusaur's best applications lies in its offensive capabilities. It's an excellent manual sun abuser and its growth sets are pretty good even on non sun teams, and has a respectable speed tier in the tier that outspeeds notable threats such as :Nidoqueen:, and :Absol:. I will also note that it's an offensive grass with respectable bulk which is something another offensive grass in :Sceptile: lacks.
But isnt victreebell better sun mon due to weather ball?
 

TyCarter

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But isnt victreebell better sun mon due to weather ball?
Sun teams commonly run 2-3 chlorophyll abusers so it is common for both to be run together, Victreebel generally also does not have room to fit in sleep powder which Venu does have room to do so and Venu works a bit better when Sun runs out. It can be nice to buy a turn or two of setup and lets it play around Sucker punch. It's also worth noting Victreebel usually needs LO to muscle past stuff, granted sleep powder 3A Victreebel can def work on sun but it would have issues beating Chansey. Venu on non-sun teams is also able to threaten Victreebel back since there is no reason to not run chlorophyll and speed creep Victreebel.
 

Larry

formerly Leru
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Hey, with BDSPPL coming to a close and me having enjoyed the tier more than I thought I would, I figured I would make a small post featuring my thoughts on a few specific aspects of the metagame, my teams and some suggestions for the next VR update.

Truth be told, I didn't build my own teams until week 4 and TyCarter just handed me cheese for the first 3 weeks, so I won't really be talking about those. (I'd like to take a moment to thank TyCarter for those teams and his support though) I'm also not too fond of my week 4 and week 5 (the Xatu was Synchronize in the actual week 5 battle instead of Magic Bounce which was pretty unfortunate since I don't really have to allow hazards ever in the given matchup with the right ability) teams, so I won't talk about them but I'll share them nevertheless. 4 5

1690285087380.png (click for import)
The finals team is, in my opinion, a lot better than the others, and I couldn't really figure out anything that straight up beats it while testing. Nasty Plot Rotom is probably annoying to face if used right, though, but I think that's about it. The point of the team is to be a bulky offense that punishes any breaking attempts by forcing breakers to trade hits on my terms, especially with Miltank/Venusaur, and also punish every misprediction on the opposing end with the offensive threat they pose, hence the high speed invest on both. I think that this is especially potent in a meta like BDSP RU, because all breakers people tend to run in this tier are incredibly frail.

Miltank especially does a good job at punishing this, since it can outspeed most heavy hitters through its incredible base speed (it was the fastest mon on both teams in my finals game lol), can scout choice-users (applies to any CB/Specs breaker but also really damn annoying for Scarf Primeape) (and perhaps get some chip on Guts Swellow/Machamp) through Protect and can punish any attempts at breaking through it with some good chip damage and a potential Paralysis from Body Slam. While it is not quite as fat as Chansey, I think it's a better fit for the team because unlike Chansey, Miltank actually poses a threat to whatever pokemon attempts to break it. Please rank Miltank in the next VR update. Perhaps like B+?

Another thing I discovered to be really good in this season is Timid Chlorophyll Venusaur. Not sure if anyone else tried that yet outside of sun. Timid Venusaur in general is really nice to outspeed Nidoqueen and Absol and simply force Absol to play Sucker mindgames and enforce chip on Nidoqueen, as well as a whole lot of things. While you're at it with running 252+ speed you might as well use Chlorophyll to patch up the sun matchup since Venusaur is usually the fastest abuser on sun. (unless they run Leafeon, but you beat that anyway) Venusaur has access to Growth which allows it to break through a lot of teams (especially since this tier has some steel types that don't beat it, such as Steelix and Aggron, Registeel is a bit iffy for sets without Leech Seed though) and Leech Seed, which, especially in combination with Sludge Bomb, makes it incredibly hard for fatter teams to beat. Venusaur has excellent stats, is hard to switch in to and forces progress like no other. In my opinion it is probably the best Pokemon in the tier, so I'd very much support moving it up to S on the next VR update (and also, please move Nidoqueen down from S, by using Nidoqueen you put the onus to outplay for any progress at all on yourself and theres a couple pokemon it can't really do anything against, such as Slowking and Gastrodon. While it is pretty good, I think it doesn't quite warrant the current ranking on the VR.)

The rest of the team outside of Miltank/Venusaur is fairly standard so I won't go in-depth on that, I do however still want to share my opinion on Absol since that has been a topic of interest in BDSP RU lately. I personally think that Absol is not broken and shouldn't be banned. There is plenty of counterplay you can put on a team to deal with it. Steels such as Aggron and Steelix do a good job at holding it off temporarily because it doesn't have access to Close Combat, it's often not strong enough to break through without SD, which means it has to find a setup opportunity which often costs you a big chunk of your HP bar because of Absol's abysmal bulk, Colbur Slowking can live a hit and threaten Paralysis/Burn, it has to play mindgames against Substitute Rotom (Rotom can also decide to run Will-o-Wisp and Absol can't really do anything about that), it's not quite strong enough to break through defensive assets such as Venusaur and Gastrodon (I'm intentionally not mentioning Granbull because I think it sucks because it doesn't really do anything outside of beating Absol, if you need to resort to Granbull so your team doesn't lose to Absol then that's a bad team) without outside help, and it's speed tier puts it below a lot of stuff, which forces it to get turns right with Sucker Punch.

In short: Don't ban Absol, theres a lot of potential counterplay to it, Absol is one of those pokemon that are easy to force to get turns right through making your structure sound in the builder, hence making losing to Absol kind of a skill issue, in my opinion. If anything it functions as a solid cheese deterrent, with its strong sucker punches keeping sun and rain in check.

That's it for the strong opinions I've formed while playing BDSP RU for a season, I'd really enjoy reading if the other BDSP RU players for this season would also post their teams/technological advances in the teambuilder/opinions gorex Mihowk outbackrabbit Ampha Raahel Piyush25
 
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TyCarter

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Two announcements to make, the first is that sample teams have been updated! The second announcement is that we held two voting slates, one was for Absol and the other was in regards to weather extending items.

Absol did not gain enough support to be banned. One of our voters opted to sit out both voting slates so it was trimmed down to 11 potential voters while 2 voters no-showed. Absol had only had 44.4% ban votes so it will REMAIN RU.

Screenshot 2023-07-28 130213.png


The weather items (Damp Rock and Heat Rock) were voted on separately in our second voting slate that occurred after the Absol vote as our player base believed some form of tiering action was warranted on these items in a survey we held a while back.

Screenshot 2023-08-05 121535.png

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3 voters did not vote amongst the 11 eligible voters within the deadline. Heat Rock only received 50% Ban support while Damp Rock received only 37.5% of Ban Votes. Both items will remain legal for the time being.

As for any potential tiering actions, we currently do not have anything else viewed as needing immediate action for the time being. I'll prob work on opening a VR slate to update some stuff as there have certainly been some interesting developments that were made during BDSPPL so keep an eye out on that.
 
What happened to Slowbro? Wasn't it in OU at one point? Why would it be in UU in DP and RU in BDSP when it gained Regenerator in BDSP? Are DP's meta and BDSP's meta really that different from each other?
 

TyCarter

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What happened to Slowbro? Wasn't it in OU at one point? Why would it be in UU in DP and RU in BDSP when it gained Regenerator in BDSP? Are DP's meta and BDSP's meta really that different from each other?
Yes BDSP and DPP's metas are quite divorced from each other for numerous reasons. Slowbro is a case of where it's a better fit in OU than in UU and RU but has to compete with other water types for a slot on teams.

When usage based tiering was still active, Slowbro was pushed out of UU fairly late into its lifespan as Heracross had made it difficult to have a home at the time when it was still legal and BDSP UU has other waters it has to fight for a slot with such as Milotic, Empoleon, and Suicune for example. In RU, there are many water types it has to compete with for a slot like its counterpart Slowking, and Gastrodon but RU also has far more special attacking threats that makes slowbro's services not as in demand.
 

TyCarter

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hate double posting but quick BDSP RU VR Update before BDSP RU Open starts

Rises

:Absol: Absol A+ -> S
:Medicham: Medicham B+ ->A-
:Steelix: Steelix B -> A-
:Xatu: Xatu B ->B+
:Venusaur: Venusaur A->A+
:Kabutops: Kabutops C+->B
:Leafeon: Leafeon C->C+
:Chansey: Chansey A- ->A
:Registeel: Registeel A- ->A
:Spiritomb: Spiritomb B+ -> A-
:Vaporeon: Vaporeon B+ -> A-
:Rotom: Rotom A->A+
:Primeape: Primeape A->A+
:Scpetile: Sceptile B-> B+
:Mantine: Mantine UR-> A-
:Zangoose: Zangoose B->B+

Drops


:Cacturne: Cacturne C->UR
:Bronzong: Bronzong A -> A-
:Exploud: Exploud A+ ->A
:Honchkrow: Honchkrow A- ->B+
:Torterra: Torterra A ->B+
:Hitmonchan: Hitmonchan B ->B-
:Skuntank: Skuntank B->B-
:Houndoom: Houndoom A ->A-
:Cradily: Cradily B-> B-
:Bibarel: Bibarel B- -> C

This should be our last update as BDSP tiers got unfrozen not too long ago.
 

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