Resource BDSP OU Viability Rankings

[dhelmise]

Hi everyone, sorry for the delay! We know the meta has shifted a lot since our suspects, so we waited a bit until updating. However, our VR update is here now:

Rises

• A+ -> S-
• A+ -> S-
• A -> S-
• A -> A+
• A -> A+
• A -> A+
• A -> A+
• A -> A+
• A- -> A
• A- -> A
• A- -> A
• B+ -> A-
• B -> A-
• B+ -> A-
• UR -> B+
• UR -> B+
• B -> B+
• B- -> B
• C -> B-
• C -> B-

Drops

• B+ -> B
• B+ -> B
• B -> B-
• B -> B-
• B -> B-
• B- -> C
• C -> UR
• B- -> UR
• B- -> UR
• B- -> UR
• C -> UR
• C -> UR
• B- -> UR
• C -> UR
• C -> UR
• C -> UR
• C -> UR

Let us know if you have any questions! I decided not to include reasons because most of the changes are fairly straightforward and a big reason for the shifts would be "changes from last VR are comparing this metagame to a metagame with Manaphy and Gengar" so yeah.

 

[R8]

What happened to sun? Also, what does shaymin do?

 

[adem]

What happened to sun? Also, what does shaymin do?

Cant answer much about Shaymin but about sun, personally it was never really good with how popular the Dragons were especially Garchomp and Latios which mauled it. It was bound to drop at some stage, and now with Heatran gaining in popularity, nothing is doing it any favours.

tldr: sun hype train dragons kill it

 

[Moyashi]

Curious about the Latias rise. Obviously a very good pokemon but with Latios still around I'm interested in what Latias does or has been doing notably that warrants a rise.

 

[QuickBH]

Curious about the Latias rise. Obviously a very good pokemon but with Latios still around I'm interested in what Latias does or has been doing notably that warrants a rise.

It's a great mon in HO for high utility with Healing Wish and even has niches as a CMer that Latios lacks. (E.g. Reflect Type and higher physical defense) Quite frankly it is a Pokémon I'm shocked didn't get heavy consideration before but it is definitely close to (if not downright equal to) her brother in impactfulness and it only got buffed with Gengar's hit promoting more utility Psychics.

 

[KrookKing]

Surprised Feraligatr got a rise, what caused this notable increase?

 

[H momento]

Surprised Feraligatr got a rise, what caused this notable increase?

I'd say the ban of fellow water Manaphy which reduced the need for running water-type hardcounters makes Gatr way better
Aside from that Gatr has and will always be great at slaughtering offensive teams

 

[Lalaya]

Curious about the Latias rise. Obviously a very good pokemon but with Latios still around I'm interested in what Latias does or has been doing notably that warrants a rise.

It's just that Latias can do basically the same jobs Latios does with virtually no power loss (not in real calcs anyway, the 2HKOs are mostly the same but it does less to Scizor and the like), and it's also a great utility mon to boot; if anything only if you'd try a Specs Latias you'd notice the difference (slightly)

Surprised Feraligatr got a rise, what caused this notable increase?

basically king of the Water breakers alongside Azumarill and Crawdaunt; Azu has a strong priority and defensive utility, Craw is basically unwallable except for very select Pokémon and Fera stands in the middle of both sporting enough power to actually defeat the Unawares while also always guaranteeing itself a DD boost in every situation
I still feel it's underrated, quite frankly

 

[ATowerFalledXD]

Also, what does shaymin do?

Shaymin feels a lot like Tangrowth right now except Tangrowth can do more thing's then Shaymin. However, Shaymin has a couple qualities over Tangrowth like Healing Wish, Seed Flare (yes ik 8 pp but 40% chance to lower spdef and this can just force switches), and Natural cure that allows it to use Rest as a viable recovery option because Shaymin wakes up once it switches out, Shaymin has a speed and spdef stat and it is also your Breloom and Tangrowth check all on one mon. Solid B+ tier mon imo.
(ok eve told me to list Aromatherapy which is pretty cool for stall idk how i forgot that)

Anyways for the VR rankings in general, here are my opinions. I'm not exactly sold on Azumarills, Crawdaunts and Garchomps rise but maybe it is accurate, that is literally it.

 

[N_Mareanie]

holy shit why all those rises to S-

 

[Lalaya]

holy shit why all those rises to S-

Rotom-Wash: pretty much one of the tier's best glues; Scarf Rotom can take care of both Offense and Stall alike with Trick and Nasty Plot, or you get burned trying to scout it
Garchomp: another solid offensive glue and something that every team should prepare for, easy the best choice for a offensive Ground-type, and its really walled by very few things
Weavile: Takes care of every problem you have with Tios, Zam and all that group, pure raw offensive wallbreaker thanks to Band that has very few counters and not that more checks

 

[RantoxTG93]

What caused Empoleon to drop a sub-rank and Aerodactyl to VR?

 

[TyCarter]

What caused Empoleon to drop a sub-rank and Aerodactyl to VR?

Aerodactyl doesn't have a good movepool to work with, rapid spin's buff makes it near useless as a suicide lead and the numerous priority in the tier makes it hard for it to do its job of laying rocks down. Also, the bajillion scarfers in the meta don't help either and defog being fairly easy to get a hold of. It's hard to justify a spot on a team, especially considering team preview is a thing unlike gen 4.

Empoleon hurts from the massive steel type nerf back in Gen 6 which makes it hard for it to tank a lot of things that it used to be able to tank. Also the presence of Garchomp, Magnezone trapping it easily and many offensive powerhouses just overwhelm it. It's also fairly passive which doesn't help and even if it gets roost I'm not sure if it would help that much.

 

[Lalaya]

What caused Empoleon to drop a sub-rank and Aerodactyl to VR?

all that above is correct, but honestly and more simply: there are better suicide leads than Aero (Skarmory and Azelf being miles better at the job than Aero ever will) and Aero does literally nothing else except doing some chip damage and die with rocks up (Azelf at least can't get spinned in the face, Skarmory guarantees to kill itself with Bird or a layer of Spikes)
and that being said, the suicide lead job itself is just bad

for Empoleon it's just that it's a steel/bulky water without recovery, so it doesn't do the job well enough to warrant using it over other steels or bulky waters

 

[Maudire]

I think we all know that Mew is capable of running a very wide variety of sets due to its stats and movepool, but what are the specific sets that are effective enough to earn Mew a spot on the VR? It's listed under a whole bunch of different, often contradictory, roles in the Role Compendium.

 

[Lalaya]

I think we all know that Mew is capable of running a very wide variety of sets due to its stats and movepool, but what are the specific sets that are effective enough to earn Mew a spot on the VR? It's listed under a whole bunch of different, often contradictory, roles in the Role Compendium.

Hardest question in the whole metagame honestly
Mew can do kind of anything; it can be a good NPlot sweeper, a Defogger, or a Stealth Rock setter, but the point is that every set is just inferior in some way to other Pokèmon, especially for the first two examples
That being said, people found success in ladder with 3 Atks Roost Mew or Stealth Rock / Roost / Ice Beam / Flamethrower or Earthquake, which beats most defoggers of the tier (it's also a sample set here)

 

[Maudire]

Hardest question in the whole metagame honestly
Mew can do kind of anything; it can be a good NPlot sweeper, a Defogger, or a Stealth Rock setter, but the point is that every set is just inferior in some way to other Pokèmon, especially for the first two examples
That being said, people found success in ladder with 3 Atks Roost Mew or Stealth Rock / Roost / Ice Beam / Flamethrower or Earthquake, which beats most rockers of the tier (it's also a sample set here)

I'm assuming you meant the Stealth Rock set beats most of the relevant Defoggers/Spinners in the tier.

Does the classic "stallbreaker" set threaten the kinds of stall builds we see in BDSP OU? Something like this, maybe? Obviously Mew doesn't have access to Seismic Toss / Night Shade / Knock Off here, but some offensive move can fill in.

 

[Lalaya]

I'm assuming you meant the Stealth Rock set beats most of the relevant Defoggers/Spinners in the tier.

whoops
you saw nothing

Does the classic "stallbreaker" set threaten the kinds of stall builds we see in BDSP OU? Something like this, maybe? Obviously Mew doesn't have access to Seismic Toss / Night Shade / Knock Off here, but some offensive move can fill in.

well you kind of answered yourself
it might (only with taunt + toxic though, taunt + wow dont stallbreak anything), but taunt + toxic is kind of situational and the opponent can just switch endlessly unless you have crazy good hazard stacking done prior
Taunt / Toxic / Roost / Flamethrower might do it, but you're a sitting duck against offense and you're not Heatran to actually trapkill things

its just the big thing about Mew
it's completely unexplored because it doesn't do a good job GOOD enough to warrant usage, even if it can do anything

 

[Jonbot]

What does slowbro do in bdsp ou? I assume it’s supposed to be a physically bulky water but it can’t deal with most of the offensive Pokemon and just loses to a lot of them. It doesn’t even beat garchomp if it swords dances on the switch because ice beam doesn’t ohko chomp and +2 eq 2 hit kills max defence max hp slowbro. Slowbro does check heatran, lucario, dragonite and a few more, but it is fairly weak against most offensive Pokemon and just seems like it shouldn’t be A rank. Maybe I’m missing something?

 

[H momento]

What does slowbro do in bdsp ou? I assume it’s supposed to be a physically bulky water but it can’t deal with most of the offensive Pokemon and just loses to a lot of them. It doesn’t even beat garchomp if it swords dances on the switch because ice beam doesn’t ohko chomp and +2 eq 2 hit kills max defence max hp slowbro. Slowbro does check heatran, lucario, dragonite and a few more, but it is fairly weak against most offensive Pokemon and just seems like it shouldn’t be A rank. Maybe I’m missing something?

Colbur berry Twave lets it render Gatr Weav pretty much useless while it has Slack Off + Regen to make up for lack of lefties
Scald spreads burns as usual, while it can also run Ice Beam for Chompers & Dnite, the former is usually LO meaning it'll die after the recoil or to have a great shot of killing it after rocks and the latter can't break it at +1
Future sight helps its teammates wallbreak
It's a great Infernape check, Luke & Mamo check too, pairs very well with Tangrowth
Also it's an alright non-Beam Heatran check!

 

[Maudire]

B- Rank

Weezing

I am curious what capabilities Weezing has that earn it a spot on the VR. Obviously, usage does not always correlate with viability, but Weezing is a Pokémon that has exceptionally low usage. For example, stats from February show Weezing’s usage in BDSP OU at multiple ELOs:

ELO, Rank, and Usage rate:
gen8bdspou-0: 125th, 0.45%
gen8bdspou-1500: 124th, 0.42%
gen8bdspou-1630: 123rd, 0.20%
gen8bdspou-1760: 124th, 0.12%

In fact, its usage actually decreases the higher on the ladder you go—usually an indication it’s inconsistent, harder to climb with, that top players don’t prefer it, or that the metagame is very top-heavy (which might be happening here).

The sample BDSP OU moveset for Weezing is a physically defensive Neutralizing Gas variant, which I assume is meant to wall a bunch of the strong physical attackers in the tier that rely on their abilities for damage output (Scizor and Breloom's Technician, Feraligatr's Sheer Force, Crawdaunt's Adaptability, Azumarill's Huge Power, etc.). Access to Will-O-Wisp emphasizes this niche. However, there are a bunch of powerful physical attackers with Earthquake, which without Levitate will smack Weezing.

Obviously you don’t want to switch Weezing into any special attack, but it seems likely to get blown away by most special attacks with a low HP stat and such a poor Special Defense stat.

Switching in Weezing also seems like a momentum-sapping play regardless so it doesn’t seem to fit anywhere other than stall or maybe balance. Do these archetypes even want Weezing? Can stall fit Weezing and still cover the meta threats? I guess I’m simply asking what Weezing is capable of to warrant such a ranking and what general archetypes even want to consider Weezing. Does anybody have any experience using or running into this Pokémon?

C Rank:

Espeon

Espeon’s only viable niche in which it isn’t completely outclassed (Specs is outclassed by every other OU Psychic, Calm Mind is bad Latias) is as a dual screens setter. What is the overall viability of this playstyle and which other Pokémon on the VR can run effective dual screens sets? Azelf?

 

[agslash23]

I have been saying this for a while on Discord, but now finally I raise this nom

UR -> B

It's a shock to see that Heracross is unranked!

Guts Heracross is an amazing breaker ; it can 6-0 Stall and break Balance cores (if played right) with a set of :

Heracross @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Facade
- Throat Chop

Close Combat demolishes anything that doesn't resist it; Megahorn OHKOes Slowbro and Tangrowth; Facade is a 140BP coverage move to 2HKO STAB resists like Gliscor, Clefable; Throat Chop beats the rare Shedinja, as well as punishes Mismagius if it's switching in.

What makes its stall matchup even better is that stuff like Tangrowth and Gliscor don't do much back to it, thus it can afford to miss Megahorn vs the former and it can run an Adamant Nature to beat the latter. This is why I believe that it is the best stallbreaker in BDSP OU, even better than Crawdaunt (as it can struggle vs itemless Tangrowth if forgoing Sludge Bomb. It also can't switch in as easily as Heracross, since it is vulnerable to status) and Nidoking (it needs Focus Punch and correct prediction to beat Blissey, which means that it forgoes a valuable coverage move)

While its matchup versus offense is not as good, it can still check Breloom well after Flame Orb activation, and come in on Weavile, Crawdaunt, Tyranitar locked into a Dark move (only after a kill, or through slow pivoting; it's a parallel to Weavile checking Dragapult in SS OU). It also gets a kill opportunity if it's facing Scizor or a chipped defensive Rotom-Wash (doesn't care about burn as well), who are the most popular glues on Offense teams.

Heracross does have issues though; it gets worn down easily by burn, hazards, weak attacks like Gliscor's Earthquake, and, unlike Crawdaunt, it can fold easily to offensive mons like Alakazam, Latios, Infernape. This is why I think B rank is perfect for it currently, where we can also see Staraptor (who has the same strengths and weaknesses as Heracross).

Calcs :

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 178-211 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 422-500 (107.1 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 390-458 (96.5 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 214-252 (54.3 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 202-238 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Scizor: 280-331 (81.3 - 96.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 216-255 (71 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Replay :

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1545659879-efwr20tw1wty9pzkzewxyyjldyrksxfpw

 

[agslash23]

The above post was for a brand new nom, now I'd like to nom for some mons that exist on VR :

S- ->S

As biased as I may seem (my PFP says it all), I believe that Garchomp is as busted as Latios. This thing has no true counters. Skarmory and Tangrowth? Fire Blast. Unaware Clef? Gets 2HKOed by Life Orb boosted Earthquake. Gliscor? Gets OHKOed by +2 Life Orb Outrage. Slowbro? Loses to Draco Meteor sets, and to Life Orb Swords Dance set after some chip. Best switch in would be Togekiss, but if Garchomp decides to run Stone Edge, it loses. Try to revenge kill it using Speed Control? You are throttled by ScarfChomp.

Besides its offensive prowess, Garchomp can provide additional utility (if needed) to any offense team it's commonly seen on. It is a Ground- type (dissuades Volt Switch), it can set up Stealth Rock, it has great bulk and a nice typing that lets it check threats like Heatran. This makes it one of the easiest Pokemon to slap on a team, and thus I nom it to S-Tier.

A+ -> S-

Alakazam is similarly unwallable, period. And is extremely fast. This makes it one of the best Pokemon in the tier, thus I believe that should be in S rank. S- would be ideal as, like Weavile, it needs pivoting support to function properly.

A+ -> A

This may be a hot take, but I think Gliscor is far more manageable than A+ suggests. Just look at S, S-, A+, A ranks - Latios, Weavile, Mamoswine, and strong Water breakers all threaten to OHKO it, while Garchomp, Breloom, and Alakazam can brute force past it after setting up (which the former 2 can do versus Gliscor).

 

[AlvHaak]

The above post was for a brand new nom, now I'd like to nom for some mons that exist on VR :

S- ->S

As biased as I may seem (my PFP says it all), I believe that Garchomp is as busted as Latios. This thing has no true counters. Skarmory and Tangrowth? Fire Blast. Unaware Clef? Gets 2HKOed by Life Orb boosted Earthquake. Gliscor? Gets OHKOed by +2 Life Orb Outrage. Slowbro? Loses to Draco Meteor sets, and to Life Orb Swords Dance set after some chip. Best switch in would be Togekiss, but if Garchomp decides to run Stone Edge, it loses. Try to revenge kill it using Speed Control? You are throttled by ScarfChomp.

Besides its offensive prowess, Garchomp can provide additional utility (if needed) to any offense team it's commonly seen on. It is a Ground- type (dissuades Volt Switch), it can set up Stealth Rock, it has great bulk and a nice typing that lets it check threats like Heatran. This makes it one of the easiest Pokemon to slap on a team, and thus I nom it to S-Tier.

A+ -> S-

Alakazam is similarly unwallable, period. And is extremely fast. This makes it one of the best Pokemon in the tier, thus I believe that should be in S rank. S- would be ideal as, like Weavile, it needs pivoting support to function properly.

A+ -> A

This may be a hot take, but I think Gliscor is far more manageable than A+ suggests. Just look at S, S-, A+, A ranks - Latios, Weavile, Mamoswine, and strong Water breakers all threaten to OHKO it, while Garchomp, Breloom, and Alakazam can brute force past it after setting up (which the former 2 can do versus Gliscor).

Gliscor may not be that strong in 1v1 matchups but it fits better than Chomp to balanced/defensive/vturn teams for its unparalleled utility functions. It dominates certain matchups and its immunity to ground/electric/status allows easy roost recovery and hazard control, if not just pivotting away. Chomp easily gets chipped but also chips the opponents easily. Gliscor is somewhat harder to chip. Chomp is more like "to be checked" while Gliscor is "to check" something. Gliscor is definitely more manageable than Chomp but deserves the A+ rank as the peer of Latias and like. It is the No.1 utility pokemon in the meta.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

I am curious what capabilities Weezing has that earn it a spot on the VR. Obviously, usage does not always correlate with viability, but Weezing is a Pokémon that has exceptionally low usage. For example, stats from February show Weezing’s usage in BDSP OU at multiple ELOs:

ELO, Rank, and Usage rate:
gen8bdspou-0: 125th, 0.45%
gen8bdspou-1500: 124th, 0.42%
gen8bdspou-1630: 123rd, 0.20%
gen8bdspou-1760: 124th, 0.12%

In fact, its usage actually decreases the higher on the ladder you go—usually an indication it’s inconsistent, harder to climb with, that top players don’t prefer it, or that the metagame is very top-heavy (which might be happening here).

The sample BDSP OU moveset for Weezing is a physically defensive Neutralizing Gas variant, which I assume is meant to wall a bunch of the strong physical attackers in the tier that rely on their abilities for damage output (Scizor and Breloom's Technician, Feraligatr's Sheer Force, Crawdaunt's Adaptability, Azumarill's Huge Power, etc.). Access to Will-O-Wisp emphasizes this niche. However, there are a bunch of powerful physical attackers with Earthquake, which without Levitate will smack Weezing.

Obviously you don’t want to switch Weezing into any special attack, but it seems likely to get blown away by most special attacks with a low HP stat and such a poor Special Defense stat.

Switching in Weezing also seems like a momentum-sapping play regardless so it doesn’t seem to fit anywhere other than stall or maybe balance. Do these archetypes even want Weezing? Can stall fit Weezing and still cover the meta threats? I guess I’m simply asking what Weezing is capable of to warrant such a ranking and what general archetypes even want to consider Weezing. Does anybody have any experience using or running into this Pokémon?





Espeon’s only viable niche in which it isn’t completely outclassed (Specs is outclassed by every other OU Psychic, Calm Mind is bad Latias) is as a dual screens setter. What is the overall viability of this playstyle and which other Pokémon on the VR can run effective dual screens sets? Azelf?

Well Espeon has magic bounce, and while not as good as clefable, it can get screens up which is a good niche, since Clefable wants to run Unaware most of the time to beat setup sweepers.