Project BDSP OU Research Week

BT89

go on, take everything
is a Pre-Contributor
OP stole from NU Research Week, which is from Daiyaga's UU Research Week thread | Approved by 6Roggenrolas and Kris | Hosted by BT89

BDSP Research Week
  • Welcome to BDSP Research Week! We provide you two Pokemon to research, one will be a common Pokemon with a lesser-used/new set, and one will be an uncommon Pokemon.​
  • Anyone interested creates a ladder alt and tests out these Pokemon.​
  • After laddering, players will discuss their thoughts about the Pokemon. Sharing the set you used on the Research Pokemon and/or the team(s) you used while laddering is recommended!​
  • Whoever has the highest ELO will be the winner of the week.​
Things to note:
  • You can sign up any time throughout the week, but the week will always end on the weekend.​
  • Do not post in this thread complaining about the chosen movesets / suggesting new sets for later weeks!​
  • Discussion is mandatory in ordered to be considered the winner.​
  • You must make one coherent post that details the Pokemon you are using and what their role is in the metagame.​
  • Post your experiences regardless of if you think you will win or not, it’s appreciated!​
  • Post and save replays - they are great forms of information for RW Pokemon.​
  • Talk about the Pokemon in the BDSP Metagames chat on Pokemon Showdown, the BDSP Metagames Discord, and anywhere else that follows suit.​
In order to participate/qualify, you must:
  • Post here with a fresh research week alt (Example - BDSPRW# bt89) and provide the names of the Pokemon you are using.​
  • Use at least one of the provided research week Pokemon!​
  • Post your experiences here; participate and create discussion!​
  • Post logs/battles that show the RW Pokemon in action - show and tell in a way.​
  • The winner will be the person with the highest ELO on their RW alt by the end of the week. The winner will have a permanent spot on the hall of fame.​
 

BT89

go on, take everything
is a Pre-Contributor
Week 1

:ss/blissey:

Blissey @
Ability:
EVs:
- Counter
-
-
-

Blissey remains as the iconic "pink blob", using its amazing HP and Special Defense to blanket check nearly all special attackers. Blissey also has a poor Defense stat, which means it takes major amounts of damage from physical attacks. However, it can turn this into a potential upside with Counter, being able to strike back at physically-oriented foes for massive damage. Is Counter worth running on Blissey? Or are its other moves too valuable to give up?

You can use any mix of EVs, items, abilities, etc. but Blissey MUST have the move Counter.

:ss/sharpedo:

Sharpedo @
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-

Sharpedo was recently unranked on the BDSP OU Viability Rankings. So let's see if the mon actually deserved this fate or not! Sharpedo's most stand-out features are its amazing ability in Speed Boost & great STABs to complement its good 120 base Attack and decent 90 SpAtk. These traits can allow it to act as a decent sweeper with Protect + 3Atks. Are its good mixed attacking stats, devastating sweeping ability, and good STABs enough to compensate for its complete lack of defensive utility?

In order to participate you must do the following:

  • Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as BDSPRW1 BT89) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • The latter half of the week will be reserved for discussion.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
  • You MUST post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell
  • The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown BDSP OU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends.
  • Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
 
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BT89

go on, take everything
is a Pre-Contributor
Discussion phase begins now! Make sure to post your ELO, teams, battle logs, etc. to qualify!
 
I want to write something more lengthy later, but to foster some early discussion, here's something I think might have some merit:


Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe
Naughty Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Crunch
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Poison Jab over Waterfall trades off the ability to kill certain walls/checks with a flinch, but acts as an effective lure for Azumarill, Clef, and does more to Togekiss than Ice Beam. I find that a lot of the types you want water coverage for often have priority that makes them a counter to Sharpedo regardless (Lucario, Infernape), so you're not actually much worse off without it. Notable exceptions are Heatran, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Rotom-Heat, and Nidoking (although you can run more SpA for the Nido easily).

For comps, I tried a lot of cores that I thought would support Sharpedo well, and I intend to comb through replays and post some later, but after half a week, it ended up being someone else's team that got me to my current peak of just over 1500. https://pokepast.es/2602efb90c38a097 - by Kiry4n in the Sample Teams thread. I tweaked Sharp's EV spread: 29 HP EVs let you take 1 less damage from Life Orb, but you're so frail it probably never matters. Anyway, you probably need an offensive or hyper-offensive team to make this 'mon work, as well as something that can check non-Aqua-Jet priority users, notably Lucario. Garchomp seems to be the most effective go-to. Hazards are critical for some switch-ins to Sharp, so reliably pressuring spinners/defoggers is important. Gliscor is no problem, but Scizor can be a headache. Sharpedo's frailty necessitates at least one slow U-Turn/Volt Switch/Healing Wish for a switch-in IMO.

I'm still pretty new to competitive pokemon, so please let me know if I got anything straight-up wrong. Cheers!
 
Choice Band Sharpedo:
When I was thinking of the role sharpedo could play in ou, the protect/crunch/waterfall/ice beam set seemed like a worse version of feraligatr, as it gets no attack boost, making it harder to threaten teams, and it gets picked off by most decent attacks made me think more immediate power was needed. So I focused on cb sharpedo for the immediate power, as most people anticipate a protect, so usually you can get off an attack for free.

Sharpedo @ Choice Band
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Fang
better clef and washtom matchup
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpedo Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 121-144 (39.8 - 47.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
That said you do have a worse matchup against tangrowth
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 136-162 (33.6 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Pros:
- one of the few fast choice banders that can afford to run adamant, due to speed boost unlike weavile and infernape
- after 1 speed boost, outspeeds scarf washtom and +1 feraligatr, after 2 speed boosts, outspeeds the entire tier
Cons:
- for CB at least, completely walled by tangrowth, and most of the 2hkos can switch out easily into a resist
- also for CB can't act as revenge killer for latios/zam
- very frail, so takes heavy damage from most neutral hits
- has trouble switching in
- takes up a spot from the other water breakers

research week 1.JPG
the team i threw together (heavily inspired by tycarter's team I faced on ladder), generally, the idea would be to set up hazards with suicide lead skarm, and then threaten the defogger (gliscor, usually) with sharpedo, and try to chip the rest of their team.

unfortunately i was really stupid and downloaded all of my replays instead of uploading, so i have have them as a drop box link, unfortunately if you don't want to read the html, will have to download to see it i think.
bdsprw1trunk-randzorua - ideal case, opponent has sharpedo weak team
jeffeuilo-bdsprw1trunk - sharpedo able to threaten out water weak pokemon, namely gliscor, main role for CB sharpedo on the team
bdsprw1trunk-newme21 - while likely a combo of bad teambuilding + play, i found most stall/bulky matchups difficult and this replay exemplfies that

Conclusion:
band sharpedo serves a useful role of threatening out gliscor, however I find it struggling to be useful in matchups against more bulky teams. I think that if you want a powerful water-type attack would be better served by feraligatr/daunt/azu. Also, azumarill and crawdaunt are probably the better banders, being not so easily walled. So while it has some use, i think the protect set has more of a niche as it can revenge zam and latios.

Counter Blissey:
I played like 6 games with this so don't have to much in the way of replays, but i've run blissey in general for the last month. counter is somewhat hard to use with blissey (i pulled it off twice i think), there are limited pokemon you want to counter as even for a somewhat ideal target like scizor (off u-turn), as you run the risk of it setting up sds on you. counter blissey fills much of the same role as a special wall.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Counter
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave

You may want to keep rocks to better matchup with gliscor, it is an ideal counter canidate, as eq does ~25%, so counter will OHKO in response
ideally blissey gets a counter off against a physical attack that does <50% but that criteria applies to 2 pokemon (gliscor and scizor), and one of them you don't want to let set up. That said, most choice banders won't ohko blissey but will do 60-70% so you could use counter on those attacks (you can also scout the move by clicking softboiled, mostly for weavile). However, countering CBers is generally a band idea as most special attackers can do 30-40% across 2 turns, so blissey won't be able to switch in effectively afterwards to check special attacks.
limited to physical attackers in the role compendium, going by strongest attack
weak physical attackers:
:gliscor: gliscor
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 187-222 (26.1 - 31%) -- 9.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
:donphan: donphan
252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 307-363 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery'
:weavile: weavile
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 357-421 (50 - 58.9%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
:mamoswine: mamoswine (this is for jolly, does 89 max if adamant)
252 Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 444-523 (62.1 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
:entei: entei
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 447-526 (62.6 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

everything else either can set up, or does over 80%, so i didn't include (though blissey is not ohkod by more or less every pokemon without fighting stab, even band nite does max 98% with outrage).
no real conclusions as i barely ran it, I don't think it would be a bad option if you had another rocker/didn't need t-wave, that said for some matchups it may have no use as you don't want take heavy damage/let things set up. I would be interested in what others think would be the move to drop: t-wave or rocks. rocks lets you lure gliscor, and blissey is a pretty good rocker for the teams it fits on, but t-wave threatens most fast attackers, and gives more pokemon free switch-ins so idk.
 
I used a kinda bland set

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 40 Atk / 232 SpA / 236 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Liquidation
- Ice Beam
This set is probably suboptimal but its the set i used

I think Sharpedo works best as a cleaner of sorts (except if the opponent has any priority user) its pretty good at what it does but it usually has a limited timeframe because of Life Orb recoil and its terrible bulk, its also pretty good at using a mixed set as its Sp Atk is pretty ok, and it has some powerful special moves that make up for the lower attacking prowess.

My final team was https://pokepast.es/dffe4bb58956031d with the mindset being "breakers + Sharpedo = profit" and i think it kinda worked but im pretty sure i was too bad to get any wins.

Capture.PNG
this was my ELO by the end of the week

heres the only good sharpedo demonstration i have
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1535313037-0qkt9rre0gdwk5k60dflhhjpsam50xhpw

My conclusion is: i suck at the game but Sharpedo is a pretty cool late game cleaner that has like -1 bulk and is pretty good as a mixed attacker, also it can revenge Latios + Psychic immunity which is cool i guess.
 
Here's a follow-up post, just a few of the iterations of teams I used, replays, and proof of rating:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1540207427-952olgtmi5nzd5p8udynf7mav33untspw - Good example of it doing work.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1540226492 - Good example of how close games can be when you play poorly like me.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1540234303-z9fz7xsl0z0wk8iwheyq8hf18wch3mypw - Was set for a Sharp sweep but he ff.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1540237264 - Good example of Waterfall > Liquidation. The flinch wins games.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1540247912 - Healing Wish to keep Sharpedo healthy is super useful.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1540252726 - Rotom-W is a pain for Sharp.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1540259281 - Sharpedo does in fact destroy teams without priority users.

1648427742518.png


Rating stabilized here, I'll add another if I peak high enough in the last couple hours.

https://pokepast.es/6f2476e929e6000c - Final version I ended up using, hazards are so crucial to Sharpedo's success that I have a second rocker.
https://pokepast.es/58597cb515da3e2d - 256 is the minimum amount of speed for Sharp to outspeed Jolly Weavile after a Speed Boost.
https://pokepast.es/2125419f9f823eb2 - A version with Mew lead.
https://pokepast.es/530f3016cfcf7236 - My first list, and it's genuinely awful, but I might as well post it.

I think Sharpedo is outclassed in OU, but I would conclude that it's still viable. You're probably better off abusing this thing in UU where there are notably fewer counters and more viable Spikes users. There are a lot of suicide leads you could experiment with, maybe even screens, but I think the requirement of having to build around priority users (other than Aqua Jet and Ice Shard) countering Sharp is too restrictive for you to just slap Sharpedo on a Hyper Offense team.

Edit: Here's my final rank as of Sunday, I'm not sure if this still counts but I'm calling it here:

1648433738156.png
 
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BT89

go on, take everything
is a Pre-Contributor
Thanks to all who submitted, and congratulations to SashaHyena for winning!

:ss/gliscor:

Gliscor @
Ability:
EVs:
- Taunt
-
-
-

Defensive Gliscor is a staple of the tier, being one of the best hazard setters and removers in the tier, mainly on bulkier teams. However, an interesting alternative for defensive Gliscor is Taunt, which means that instead of removing Stealth Rock, they don't get up at all! This is ideally more useful on hazard stacking teams. This begs the question - is Taunt worth it on Gliscor? Or is it generally hard to justify outside of these hazard stacking teams?

You can use any mix of EVs, items, abilities, etc. but Gliscor MUST have the move Taunt.

:ss/heracross:

Heracross @
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-

Heracross is an interesting case in OU. 125 Attack is great, especially in tandem with two excellent abilities in Moxie and Guts. Moxie, in tandem with Choice Scarf, creates a powerful snowball effect that can allow Heracross to potentially sweep in the late-game. Meanwhile, Guts + Flame Orb is a terrifying combo that lets Heracross become a nuclear wallbreaker. However, Choice Scarf sets can fall somewhat flat due to how common Fighting resists are, and Guts sets just generally fall flat versus offensive squads. Its Speed tier without Choice Scarf is also iffy, being outsped by the plethora of the offensive metagame. Are these flaws too much for Heracross to get over? Or can it over look these flaws and act as a genuinely underrated offensive threat?

You can use any mix of EVs, items, abilities, moves, etc. on Heracross.

In order to participate you must do the following:


  • Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as BDSPRW2 BT89) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • The latter half of the week will be reserved for discussion.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
  • You MUST post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell
  • The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown BDSP OU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends.
  • Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
 
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BT89

go on, take everything
is a Pre-Contributor
Discussion phase begins now! Make sure to post your ELO, teams, battle logs, etc. to qualify!

ELO is mandatory to qualify.
 
I used a Sub Guts set for my laddering

Heracross @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Substitute
- Facade
- Swords Dance
Its basically the normal Guts but with Substitute to ease prediction and Adamant as it still outspeeds key targets such as Breloom while boosting its power further to break Clefable easier.

Guts Heracross is a dedicated Stall-killer, only really "struggling" against Skarmory as it gets OHKO'd by Brave Bird while being able to resist a +2 Close Combat due to sturdy, here (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1541231238-9sqcakwvyszbyznf4rplviq27rp3g9qpw) is an example of Heracross shutting down a defensive team. While its a dominant force against Defensive archetypes, other times it can be a sitting duck due to big amounts of residual damage from it switching in and threats that can outspeed it and OHKO it such as Alakazam, Latias, and Infernape, as well as Priority which can ruin its day, here (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1543474691-2u5tl63b409rixeaafzv76t8q2g4mqjpw (sidenote: this is kinda a bad replay but its like the only one i have) ) is an example of Heracross not being able to do much against a more offensive team. Because of this, a partner with Healing Wish like Latias, Jirachi, and Gardevoir to recover Heracross is a very useful tool for keeping Heracross alive.

For teambuilding i actually have a history of Heracross teams. I deleted the first ones as they were trash apparently but there were like 10 teams, then i made https://pokepast.es/89bb95291f8ab64b which i experimented with until i made https://pokepast.es/ebb4560d3b1fba02. When the research week hit, i chose to use the first one but altered, with a new Heracross and replacing Dragonite with Feraligatr which is https://pokepast.es/19101e6108498b5a.
This team uses a combination of Scizor and Rotom-W to pivot Heracross in, while Rotom-W also covers Heracross's weaknesses (except latios), Latias is there to provide Healing Wish support and Defog support, while Feraligatr and Mamoswine are my filler choices.

this is my elo rn, ill update it on the last day
Capture.PNG


conclusion: guts heracross is a stall-killer that kinda sucks against offense because of its speed tier and guts being a hell lot of residual damage, making it usually worse than the other heavily specialized stall-killer, crawdaunt
 
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Heracross:
:dp/heracross:
I tried a few different sets like guts sd and sub salac but eventually settled on scarf heracross, mainly because it has enough speed to outrun +1 gatr and scarf washtom, so can be effective as a scarfer and chips both of them fairly well. While thudding against most walls, being able to come in and get an attack off safely I found more useful - especially on lower ladder as you run into less stall/bulky teams. I tried running it on a paraspam team to replace crawdaunt, but I missed the priority, so I think it is worse in that role (though i probably should have adapted the team more.)

Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance
realistically rain dance should be stone edge/rock slide but I'm running kingdra on the same team

Past sets:
Heracross @ Salac Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
30 HP to get salac after 3 subs

Heracross @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Facade
- Swords Dance
Consider fitting eq on this as otherwise you have to run from nidoking (if not +2)

Pros:
-
Outspeeds +1 Gatr and scarf Washtom (if it cuts speed to hit 281)
- resists mach punch, doesn't fold to most priority from high heath
- can snowball later acting as a cleaner with moxie (though I haven't had this happen so much)

Cons:
- walled by every flying type - esp gliscor, dnite and togekiss
- walled by clef
- requires some prediciton for the scarf or even non sub sets.

research week 2.JPG

rating as of sunday:
rw 2.JPG

for teams, I liked using heracross to chip rotom-wash and scizor, especially as most rotoms will not will-o-wisp before they find out the set, so can get so easy damage. A nice thing about it is that spedef scizor, washtom, gliscor don't really threaten it (even less if guts) so it could be a reason to prefer the guts set (though they all pivot so would have to get in safely).
I ended up using it with offensive scizor, as you could chip washtom pretty easily, which i found to be the largest annoyance. I used kingdra for fun - if I had to justify it, its bc stone edge is just ok on scarf, so I used rain dance instead - you only hit kiss and dnite, but dnite will espeed and kiss runs bulk (252 Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Togekiss: 166-196 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery). Physical kingdra so you don't get walled by blissey. I liked leading off with heracross to get some easy damage, as most people expect you to keep it in the back.
kingdra team (this is the one that I ended with)
sub salac - this team didn't like to use heracross very much, preferred staraptor
paraspam (i barely used this one)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1541077264 heres the appeal of guts heracross, breaks washtom + scizor very easily
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1543663492 rain vs rain matchup
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1543673594 heracross functioning as a cleaner
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1543775497 heracross being able to be more than a cleaner
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1545277770 example of snowballing once resists are gone


below are replays where lead scarf hera catches people off guard
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1543691377 - catching zam
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1543672683 - garchomp
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1542632953 - latios
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1545308962 - washtom that stayed in to para

Conclusion:
I found scarf Heracross to be an effective scarfer, meeting the key speed benchmarks of feraligatr and rotom-w, and can function as more than just a cleaner, being able to be a presence throughout the entire game, as it threatens a lot of fast, frail-ish mons like infernape or the latis. it is also more resistant to priority than infernape and garchomp, as well as having the potential to snowball with moxie, giving it a niche from the other main scarfers in the tier. that said, it doesn't function as well throughout the early and midgame like other scarfers do, I find scarf staraptor to be preferable due to its power. While I did prefer the scarf set over the guts and sub salac sets, I didn't really face any stall/very bulky teams on the ladder so I haven't really seen the downsides of less power. Overall I would say it has a niche in OU on offensive teams, on slower paced teams wanting a breaker I think crawdaunt eclispes it.
 
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I played a lot less this week than last, but Heracross actually feels very strong in OU.

There are only 2 sets that seemed consistent enough to use, Scarf/Moxie and Guts/Flame Orb/Swords Dance. Heracross has fairly good coverage, but the speed tier is a letdown against some notable mons unless you are scarfed, in which case you have to lock yourself into a move. With that in mind, there are a few approaches that can be taken to make these sets function well. I took note of past gen analysis for Heracross, in particular, the mention that screens support is a strategy worth exploring. This would allow Heracross to run a Swords Dance set and be able to take a few hits against things like Garchomp and Latios.

https://pokepast.es/51d4c96fb07eb326 - This was my build, and it's very rough but had a win against a 1600 rating featuring work from the bug.
https://pokepast.es/e130333dd8c41527 - This was the first team used to get a feel, just last week's team swapping in Heracross, and it's okay.
https://pokepast.es/8cc29a7ed35aae45 - A team I found on the forums by Megalobst, and it felt good, although Heracross was not the star.

There were a couple other teams I was interested in, including a Trick Room build, but I did not have the time or energy to test them so I'm omitting the lists.

1649016363909.png

This was my final rating as of Sunday, and here's the link for posterity: https://pokemonshowdown.com/users/bdsprwhyena2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1545247615-7tqdv5745l11sf1oef1qw1rg02gebo8pw - My final game vs 1600
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1541823517 - Scarf Heracross performing janitorial duties
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1543555248
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1543557119 - Be careful locking yourself into Close Combat against priority users!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1543561437-lilh9zr63xp43emtnfuql4h6d9ur9lhpw

In general, I found that the opportunities to get Heracross in were infrequent, but it was powerful when I could. Bug/Fighting has pretty decent coverage in OU, making it hard to switch into for the opponent, often netting a KO or severely weakening a key mon allowing a follow-up such as SD Garchomp, or a Dragon Dance user to sweep. I think Heracross is best fit on Offensive teams, where it can pair well with another offensive threat, dealing with each other's checks.

I personally prefer the SD set on Heracross, but I think both are incredibly strong in the right circumstances. If you have a way around Heracross' weaknesses, I don't think it's a gimmick or too restrictive on teambuilding for OU, if you can stomach using 80-85% accurate moves. I don't think this inconsistency is much of a liability, but it will cost you a game at some point.

My conclusion/advice for using Heracross doesn't really include any kind of novel insight, but that happens sometimes. If you're running Guts/Flame Orb/SD, faster pokemon are an issue. Mitigate this either with screens support, Trick Room, or simply having mons that can match up to those threats along with a defensive pivot to switch in. If you're running Choice Scarf, have mons that can punch holes where Heracross struggles to sweep through with whatever coverage you opt for. Slow U-turns/Volt Switches are always good. It's not revelatory, but Heracross is a fairly straightforward pokemon, and simple is often effective.
 
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BT89

go on, take everything
is a Pre-Contributor
Sorry for being late! Thanks to all who submitted and grats to melancholy0 for winning this week by a mere 2 ELO!

:ss/garchomp:

Garchomp @ Salac Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs:
-
-
-
-

Salac Garchomp can act as a heavily dangerous late game sweeper against offense and defense alike. The Speed boost from Salac Berry helps greatly in inhibiting offensive teams from being able to revenge kill Garchomp. However, this Garchomp set can have some 4MSS due to usually requiring Subsitute to function effectively, which, in tandem with Swords Dance, can generally lead to Garchomp being starved for moveslots. Can this Garchomp set overcome its 4-MoveSlot Syndrome and act as a vicious sweeper? Or is this starvation for slots too inconsistent for this set to work?

:ss/cloyster:

Cloyster @
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-

Cloyster is a genuinely underrated threat that has many unique traits over other Water-type sweepers. The main one is Shell Smash, granting Cloyster more immediate threat potential due to the +2 Attack and Speed boost. Cloyster also boasts access to Skill Link, which, if used in tandem with Icicle Spear, makes for a deadly ~125 BP STAB attack. However, Cloyster’s Attack stat is merely average, meaning it can potentially miss out on some key KOs. It is also heavily vulnerable to priority due to Shell Smash lowering its defenses. Is Cloyster’s high risk-high reward playstyle worth the effort to support? Or does it require too much support?

You can use any variation of moves, EVs, abilities, etc. on Cloyster.


In order to participate you must do the following:

  • Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as BDSPRW3 BT89) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • The latter half of the week will be reserved for discussion.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
  • You MUST post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell
  • The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown BDSP OU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends.
  • Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
Also, because I was late, there will be two weeks for laddering and discussion. The ladder phase will be one week and the discussion phase will be one week!
 

BT89

go on, take everything
is a Pre-Contributor
Reviving this! Since no one participated last time, let’s try again, eh?

Week 3.1

:ss/garchomp:

Garchomp @ Salac Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs:
-
-
-
-

Salac Garchomp can act as a heavily dangerous late game sweeper against offense and defense alike. The Speed boost from Salac Berry helps greatly in inhibiting offensive teams from being able to revenge kill Garchomp. However, this Garchomp set can have some 4MSS due to usually requiring Subsitute to function effectively, which, in tandem with Swords Dance, can generally lead to Garchomp being starved for moveslots. Can this Garchomp set overcome its 4-MoveSlot Syndrome and act as a vicious sweeper? Or is this starvation for slots too inconsistent for this set to work?

:ss/cloyster:

Cloyster @
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-

Cloyster is a genuinely underrated threat that has many unique traits over other Water-type sweepers. The main one is Shell Smash, granting Cloyster more immediate threat potential due to the +2 Attack and Speed boost. Cloyster also boasts access to Skill Link, which, if used in tandem with Icicle Spear, makes for a deadly ~125 BP STAB attack. However, Cloyster’s Attack stat is merely average, meaning it can potentially miss out on some key KOs. It is also heavily vulnerable to priority due to Shell Smash lowering its defenses. Is Cloyster’s high risk-high reward playstyle worth the effort to support? Or does it require too much support?

You can use any variation of moves, EVs, abilities, etc. on Cloyster.


In order to participate you must do the following:

  • Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as BDSPRW3 BT89) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • The latter half of the week will be reserved for discussion.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
  • You MUST post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell
  • The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown BDSP OU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends.
  • Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
 

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