Metagame BDSP NU (Mesprit Ban @ Post #111)

[Stories]

So on my quest to convince myself that Hitmonchan is not broken and is just very good glue, I have discovered this amazing little bell.

Super Cleric

Chimecho @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Recover

Future Sight

Chimecho @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Future Sight
- Heal Bell
- Recover

CM 2 Attacks

Chimecho @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Cosmic Power Rest Recycle

Chimecho @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stored Power
- Cosmic Power
- Rest
- Recycle

Perish Trapper

Chimecho @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wrap
- Perish Song
- Recover
- Protect

Have tested the first 2 a lot to great success, the remaining ones have all done decently in a few friendlies.​

 

[Aawin]

Outline a few mons I've been liking right now in the current metagame and developments are happening daily.

Sets I've Messed With (change these if you want idrc)

Skuntank @ Black Sludge
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 228 HP / 24 Atk / 232 SpD / 24 Spe
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Crunch
- Toxic
- Sucker Punch

Skuntank @ Shuca Berry / Life Orb / Black Sludge
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Acid Spray
- Flamethrower

Skuntank @ Choice Band
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch
- Crunch
- Explosion

So with the Skunk, while its stats outside of HP and speed may not be the most impressive on paper, this mon provides a ton of utility with its defensive typing. Poison/Dark is pretty stellar defensively right now, as it's a grounded Poison in a meta where Toxic Spikes have tons of leverage on the outcome of a game. The typing allows it to switch into the dual STAB of Haunter, check Mr. Mime (Dazzling Gleam still does around 40 from Specs but you can scout effectively), and deter Sceptile (does have to watch out for EQ ofc). It's one of the only mons that retained Toxic, and has additional support options such as Taunt or Haze (Roar is also quite funny).

I've recently picked up offensive sets, and find that the amount of switches that Acid Spray forces is quite nice. Acid Spray into NP on Gligar (assuming it hard switches in on the Acid Spray, with Shuca you set up NP on the next turn) forces a precarious situation for Gligar, as SpDef variants take 99% minimum. This is an incredible trade off, as most teams glue mon of choice is Gligar, so eliminating that is really beneficial for most teams. CB is a strong revenge killer with STAB Sucker, and provides a strong breaker with Crunch and Poison Jab. Explosion is nice as well for a general nuke. Corthius has had more experience with this, so he'll probably be able to elaborate more on the set if need be.

Sets

Wormadam-Trash (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 164 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Infestation
- Protect
- Gyro Ball

Wormadam-Trash (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 164 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Infestation
- Iron Head

Everyone who has interacted with me knows that I love Trashadam. This mon might seem like dogshit, but in the current meta, it provides a ton of utility options to wall meta threats such as Sceptile, stunt on Mime (does have to watch out for Trick), checks Haunter, and is able to trade with the Normals (Tauros, Zangoose, and Linoone) bare minimum, all in a singular slot. I'm gonna keep it a buck with yall, I calc'd what the spread did on day 1 of the meta, and never looked back at it. If someone can research this and confirm what I was calc'ing for, I'd appreciate it :) . Another option that this pokemon does have is Metal Burst just to swag on Hitmonchan instantly. Being one of the 4 Steel-types in the metagame, its defensive typing holds tons of merit, and can add tons of compression and defensive synergy with pokemon such as Lanturn (also really good btw). Wormy is prob one of the goofiest pieces of shit I have ever laid my eyes on, but damn it works.

I'll be updating this post in the morning with some other mons I want to discuss, but for now I'm leaving it at 2 :)

togkey smells

 

[coolio1223]

ok, so there are currently two things i think that are being slightly overlooked from what i see here.

1. Flareon



Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wish
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp

this thing has turned out to be quite the special wall for me, and a VERY good sun counter. a sp def flareon with flash fire and wish protect can almost counter sun teams on it's own (with an exception being physical shiftry/victreebel). Even when not against sun, wish passing and burn sprrading with will o is good, and flare blitz from a 130 base attack, even uninvested, hurts if you dont resist it. Hell, I used this in bdsp RU and it still worked. (forgot to save replay :( )

2. Ampharos



Ampharos @ Choice Specs
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast

Admittedly this one is more by virtue of the fact that kingler after rocks can guarenteed ohko any ground type not called gligar (and even then gligar only has a small chance to live) or whiscash (enough said). This thing is crazy strong though, base 115 sp atk, specs, good enough bulk at 90/85/90. this thing can hit like a truck and take one or two hits as well, it even has dragon pulse and, if need be, focus miss for coverage. This thing just hits like a truck and can even keep up momentum while hitting hard if the opposing team doesnt have electivire or lanturn. The only real bad thing about amphy is its speed, base 55 is not too fast, but with the bulk it has, it can certainly get the job done.

 

[Regi Memmer]

When will BDSP NU be public?

 

[Stories]

When will BDSP NU be public?

It will come out of Alpha stages at the end of this month, you can expect one then. Until then the NU PS! room and Discord both have an active playerbase always ready to accept challenges

 

[vroooom]

meta just started and i think these are the mons that are already good

bulky ground, gets rapid spin.
aurora veil
fast hard hitting grass, unburden lets it otuspeed swift swimmers
highest spa in the meta game, hits waters with freeze dry, good bulk
hard hitting bug flying type, good speed.
good lead pokemon, can custap berry into explosion
good specs mon, overheat hits hard
manual weather setting goes brrrrrr
good rain sweeper
also good rain sweeper
specs solarpower overheat in sun goes brrrrrrrrr
fast flying type, hits hard with brave bird
hard hitting fighting type, prio mach punch.
fast electric, has nasty plot
200 physdef goes brrrrrr

u can show me mons that u think r also good or mons that i listed that aren't actually good

I want to moninate Electivire. Electivire unlike other mons in this gen still has all of its amazing coverage from other pokemon games, this makes it a very hard mon to wall as it can use mixed life orb or scarf. First off, mixed life off can absolutely shred defensive walls like sandslash and regirock while scarf is another amazing set as it shows electivire's abillity to revenge kill extremely fast mons like sceptile and other scarfers also having scarf volt switch is very nice as it can guarantee momentum. Overall, I look foward to seeing how Elect will be used on ladder and in tourneys it's one of the coolest mons right now.

 

[Hpdsd]

The last day of Alpha :)

 

[Pokeslice]

Hey everyone! I just wanted to let everyone know that, now that the tier is out of Alpha, we wanted to update the sample teams found over here. Feel free to check it out and send me your best teams :)

 

[Eve]

We've got our March tier changes!
Gained: Aerodactyl, Ninetales
Lost: Cacturne, Hitmonchan, Weezing

We've also established an initial council for the tier, consisting of myself, Meri Berry, Pokeslice, Aawin, and Corthius. We won't be voting to quickban anything right now given the magnitude of the aforementioned changes, but we are open to voting in the future if necessary.

 

[wooper]

Lost: Hitmonchan

havent played much but this was the tier's premier rapid spinner so this sucks. whats left in terms of hazard removal--sandslash, skuntank, gligar?

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Aerodactyl's an interesting case:

Aerodactyl @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Taunt / Aerial Ace / Stealth Rock

It lost quite a few things. No DD, you're back to using Aerial Ace as your Flying STAB, no coverage like Aqua Tail for stronger hits on Golem and Rhydon. On the other hand, the speed tier is godlike for an offensive mon, outspeeding things like Sceptile easily, and STAB Stone Edge hurts. Able to at least 2HKO a lot of mons offensive and defensive.

The downside of course is that Aero is frail, like 2HKOed by resisted Normal moves frail. Its a Rock type that can't switch in on our Normal-types well at all, and its Flying-type that gets OHKOed or heavily chunked by Specs Sceptile. Pivoting support in this tier is a bit plentiful though, with mons like Lanturn being quite solid. It also misses some KOes that it'd otherwise like, and its walled easily by mons like Regirock.

The moveset here is one similar to Aero sets I've seen in both SS NU and USUM NU, Life Orb EdgeQuake + Roost + filler. Rocks on non-lead Aero might seem weird, but it can get them off in a pinch due to outspeeding the non-Scarfed meta quite easily. But Taunt seems the most likely fourth slot to cripple defensive mons. Aerial Ace makes you more reliably KO things like Sceptile, Meganium, or Victreebel without banking on Stone Miss. I guess you can do Sub Roost shenanigans so you can outstall a Regirock with Pressure but that seems a bit gimmicky to me.

I can also see lead sets with Rocks + Taunt as the last two moves (and a Sash I suppose) working. Sandslash and Gligar readily stop you though, and they're likely our best hazard removers defensively since Chan left. Band is also an option.

Perhaps I'm too pessimistic or optimistic on this mon, I dunno. But I feel like this tier is where it'll sit most comfortably in BDSP.

 

[5Dots]

New drops look pretty interesting. Shame we didn’t get more Pokemon; Spiritomb or Cradily would’ve been nice to tinker with.


Aerodactyl is likely going to be very scary, considering it’s even faster than sceptile and is guaranteed to get stealth rock up unless there’s a pokemon like volbeat. Despite its shallow movepool, it has just sufficent enough of an offensive movepool to warrant set diversity, with stealth rock to make it the premier hyper-offense lead, taunt to annoy bulky threats like wormadam-T or Solrock, or Roost to give it more longevity. Aerodactyl will likely see a lot of use on offensive builds from all the benefits, but it can be good as a way to break down bulkier builds. The only downside is if pokemon like Rhydon, Regirock, or Golem run Rock Blast when Aerodactyl runs Taunt, which creates 50-50 scenarios, but Aerodactyl is going to define the lead meta one way or the other.


Without Drought, Ninetales is a far cry from being the go-to weather setter, as it’s entirely reliant on its utility movepool like Nasty Plot and Encore to differentiate it from Charizard, and other Fires like Magmortar and Typhlosion. However, the fact it is slower than Charizard and merely Speed ties with Typhlosion, combined with the fact it’s weaker than all of them, makes this very difficult to justify on most slots considering they offer much more offensive prowess right off the bat. Even as a defensive fire-type, flareon gives it fierce competition by being one of the few wish users. Ninetales is definitely not good right off the bat, considering how overall outclassed it appears from face value.


I honestly missed using Cacturne. While Qwilfish was easier to stick on teams with its higher speed and more favorable typings, the priority it offered as well as more setup moves gave it some nice niches to use on more offensively inclined hazard stack builds. Nasty Plot sets also put more pressure on physical walls like Weezing, Regirock, and Dusknoir, which qwilfish often had a lot of trouble dealing with.


Hitmonchan, on the other hand, I saw was overrated. A Rapid Spinner is nice with how it only faced competition from Sandslash, but I had a hard time safely spinning since its bulk was deceptively delicate. A middling speed tier also doesn’t help it, since it gets outpaced by numerous common wallbreakers like Charizard, Sceptile, Kangaskhan, Qwilfish - it might have the coverage moves to deter them from safely switching in, but what’s the point if they can KO it first?


One of the go-to physical walls was a significant benefit for bulkier teams. Levitate + an array of good utility moves made it reliable against titans like kangaskhan, Golem, and physical toxicroak. It was relatively splashable thanks to its favorable typing, in spite of the numerous special attackers roaming around. I expect to see Miltank, Porygon2, Gligar, and other bulky threats to rise, though none of them can compress that many roles like weezing can.

 

[wooper]

Without Drought, Ninetales is a far cry from being the go-to weather setter, as it’s entirely reliant on its utility movepool like Nasty Plot and Encore to differentiate it from Charizard, and other Fires like Magmortar and Typhlosion. However, the fact it is slower than Charizard and merely Speed ties with Typhlosion, combined with the fact it’s weaker than all of them, makes this very difficult to justify on most slots considering they offer much more offensive prowess right off the bat. Even as a defensive fire-type, flareon gives it fierce competition by being one of the few wish users. Ninetales is definitely not good right off the bat, considering how overall outclassed it appears from face value.

i agree that ninetales is weaker compared to the mons you listed, but i think its speed tier above flareon and magmortar (although mag offers a wider movepool with options like tbolt, focus blast, and taunt) and its ability to boost with nasty plot give it an edge, at least as a sidegrade if nothing else. all of the aforementioned fire-types boast better special attacking stats--mag with 125, zard and typh with 109, and even flareon with 95 vs ninetales's mediocre base 81--but np sets it apart imo, as does energy ball, being able to hit ground-, rock-, and water-types without having to rely on something like focus blast's shaky accuracy or manual sun for solar beams. it definitely needs a bit of support to get the nasty plot off like you said, because it's nothing special right off the bat, but i do think it will have merit depsite being outclassed. and not being 4x to rocks like zard is certainly cant be a bad thing for it

 

[Pokeslice]

havent played much but this was the tier's premier rapid spinner so this sucks. whats left in terms of hazard removal--sandslash, skuntank, gligar?

Obviously this was a HUGE blow to the hazard control in the tier. Without Hitmonchan, it's very clear that our hazard control is starting to look...lacking, especially given how amazing Chan was. But this doesn't mean we're entirely out of luck when it comes to removal. We're still left with some viable options, some of which actually get a bit better with Hitmonchan gone, that should be considered in your building.

Some Removers
- Already a good Pokemon because it beats our best rockers, the lack of competition now from Hitmonchan makes Slash the premier spinner in the tier, especially because of its ability to punish spinblockers with Night Slash and its overall great defensive utility.

- I've been really liking Skuntank in general as a defogger. It doesn't necessarily beat our rockers (Taunt is a cool tech), but it has ample opportunity to come in to Defog, making it a pretty reliable partner for a Pokemon who beats the rockers offensively, like Sceptile.

- Defog Gligar is definitely usable and reliable, but I tend to try not to use it if I don't have to. Between Knock, U-Turn, SR, and Taunt, there are a lot of other techs I'd rather throw into the slot where Defog is. That said, it's still a pretty good remover in the tier.

/ - Pelipper is a really cool Defogger thanks to its solid bulk, access to Roost, Water-typing, and diverse movepool with moves like Knock Off and U-Turn, so as to punish meta titan Lanturn. Lumineon compresses a lot of the same traits, but gives up Knock Off and recovery for a way faster speed tier (no need to invest in it to outspeed the rockers!) and no Flying-typing, allowing Lumineon to reliably Defog without fear of Stealth Rock damage or switching into a super effective Stone Edge from Rhydon, Golem, or Regirock. Pretty underrated imo and I'm interested to see how it fares in the coming weeks.

Without Drought, Ninetales is a far cry from being the go-to weather setter, as it’s entirely reliant on its utility movepool like Nasty Plot and Encore to differentiate it from Charizard, and other Fires like Magmortar and Typhlosion. However, the fact it is slower than Charizard and merely Speed ties with Typhlosion, combined with the fact it’s weaker than all of them, makes this very difficult to justify on most slots considering they offer much more offensive prowess right off the bat. Even as a defensive fire-type, flareon gives it fierce competition by being one of the few wish users. Ninetales is definitely not good right off the bat, considering how overall outclassed it appears from face value.

I disagree pretty heavily with this actually. After spamming the hell out of this in early Gen 8 NU, let me tell you, this thing is a menace, and will be here. The base 100 speed tier is amazing into the current meta, outspeeding threats like Mr. Mime, Zangoose, and Haunter, and with Nasty Plot and Energy Ball, the restrictions that hold back a ton of the other Fire-types in the tier -- breaking through weakened Rock-types and Lanturn -- are almost non existent. I think the lack of Hitmonchan will make keeping rocks off a bit harder for Ninetales, but I have no doubt that it very much could become a meta defining threat. It has some cool techs to run in the last slot too, such as Sub, Disable, or Wisp, which will all add dimensions to what it can do. It also has not too shabby bulk and access to Flash Fire, giving it some defensive utility, and the ability to set up on what seems like its hardest wall, Flareon, especially with Disable neutering Wish.

Random Wall of Ninetales Calcs

+2 252 SpA Charcoal Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Gligar: 298-352 (89.2 - 105.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Charcoal Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gligar: 445-525 (133.2 - 157.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 176 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 244-288 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Regirock: 280-330 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solrock: 406-478 (105.7 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Rhydon: 1068-1260 (303.4 - 357.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pelipper: 189-223 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 312-368 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+6 252+ SpA Charcoal Flash Fire Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Wormadam-Trash: 5572-6556 (2422.6 - 2850.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It's true that Ninetales doesn't seem immediately threatening and that it needs some chip to go crazy, but without Hitmonchan to spin, I expect this to go extremely well with Spike stack teams or T-Spikes in order to ensure the small chip needed to break like crazy later on, especially in conjunction with Nasty Plot and bulk that allows it to set up.

 

[AstilCodex]

Ayee we finally got a ladder, a council and shifts happen. Glad to see the community making it work!

Soo I'm just gonna spit out some thoughts in random order about what do we got now.

1. What we lost:

Hitmonchan is a big lost for the meta, being easily top5 mon as a reliable spinner and an overall strong breaker and also check to p much everything. Chan was super splashable and losing makes hazard control a lot worse now. Making stacking better.
Weezing is another glue mon thats gone now, Tspike user and check to prominent threats like Sceptile and Toxicroak, and could blanket some hits from strong normal attackers and punishing with Willo. Obviously this makes the aforementioned better now.
Lastly, Cacturne imo wasnt even good. It was a mediocre spiker cuz of its awful bulk and overall unreliable to keep them on the field. So I don't care that much about this one. It might have gotten better if it stayed and Chan rise up.

2. What we gain:

Imo, two huge additions for offense in the meta.
Aerodactyl has now the highest speed tier bypassing big Sceptile and even tho its movepool its narrowed now it doesnt need that much to be good. Edgequake coverage with the good offensive atk for the tier would make it a prominent presence. Still gets checked by Regi and slash, also might struggle to get pass Leafeon and Poliwrath due to Aerial ace being the best flying move it gets. But still a great mon in paper, would like to see how it performs. Giving now some vanilla sets I think may work. s/o to Melons-N-Soda for addressing one already n.n

Lo attacker (Aerodactyl) @ Life Orb
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace / Stealth Rock / Taunt
- Roost

CB (Aerodactyl) @ Choice Band
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Rock Slide / Sleep Talk / Crunch (?

Suicide Lead (Aerodactyl) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Rock Tomb / Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Weather setter (? (Aerodactyl) @ Heat Rock / Damp Rock
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Tomb
- Taunt
- Sunny Day / Rain Dance

Ninetales might look very mid but I think its speed tier combined with inmediate boost power in NP and access to Energy Ball to break Rock types like Regirock, Golem, Rhydon and big Lanturn makes it have a place within the other fire types we got. I dont really see any other set as NP just gives it the best way of entering as a sweeper/breaker. Flash fire also is solid to switch on zard/typh and itself lol. I think this might be very good with only opposing fires checking it.

Ninetales @ Leftovers / Charcoal
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Substitute / Disable / Hypnosis / Will-O-Wisp / Flame Charge / whatever u want

3. Our vast and handful amount of viable hazard control <3
Lets have a look at this lmao.
3.1 Rapid Spin:

Ye thats it, dont ask for more.
Sandslash got the crown as the best spinner now with Chan leaving and def got better because of it. It was already solid and now well, its the best we have. It can punish spinblockers with either Stone Edge or Night Slash and have some good offensive presence with potential SD sets. Pure ground is also unique for it and helps in some situations.
Armaldo is basically here because its not hot garbage but its mid. Slow and its the second best we have in this department. Typing sucks and even tho its kinda strong its slow af and its mediocre mon but its there yknow.

3.2 Defog:

/

???
Yknow at least the list here is somewhat bigger.
The first 4 here are very decent hazard control and provide different support each. Pelipper has very nice defensive typing and utility in knock and uturn combined with its flying type to make it a ground inmunity and pivot into fire types easily, also hurricane to hit grass types. But sometimes that rock weakness can be a nuisance so Lumineon doing the same but w no flying is also worth mentioning.
Big Gligar got even better with Chan gone meaning it still one of our best glue mons, very splashable and great at doing its job of removing hazards, items, get momentum and help the team. Skuntank has an amazing typing both offensive and defensively, allowing to check psychics like mime and jynx while also checking Sceptile and providing Defog.
The other 3 idk they might have some minor usage as deffogers (I think Defog Drifblim is a waste) and Dustox movepool isnt terrible, also checks Sceptile quite well (? Just wanted to drop them there if we have to expand this deparment a little.

4. The big spiker King

Behold our only viable Spiker and Tspiker now. Qwilfish got honestly the best out of this shift cuz now all those roles are made by this mon, and losing chan means hazard control is narrowed as well. This mon will rise a lot more now in usage with the staple of Kangaspikes teams, and any sort of hazard stacking. Also punishes both spinners with water stab and access to Taunt to keep them spikes on the field. Go big Qwil

5. Potential bans (?

/

??
With the first month of alpha, meta has adapted to the ones thought as inmediate broken threats for Sceptile and so on. These dont need further elaboration because they have been covered in previous already. I'd like to point out that the first two I still find broken or at least too much centralizing. The latter 4 are in doubt for me. I put Zangoose here because it can easily break the rock checks with boosted Close Combat unlike Tauros which is actually ok fsr. Kangaskhan and Haunter also dont find them busted but they are stupid good and solid in their roles. And lastly I wanted to mention Jynx because I know a good part of the nu squad finds it busted even though Im still in the opposite side with it.
Would like to hear thoughts of these guys. ^^

Big ass post again Lmao. P.S: Tagging Pokeslice here cuz of sample teams. Flareon Stall by Eve is also outdated cuz it has Weezing. (Also cuz I want to gain Luvdisc on this) See yall! n.n

 

[Pokeslice]

BDSP NU Viability Rankings
​

Current Slate Info

Implemented August 1st, 2022.
More info about the changes can be seen here, and the slate was voted on by the following people:

• Aawin​
• jawabarat​
• Pokeslice​
• Realistic Waters​
• glock in my toyota

NEW!

Mesprit
Cradily
Absol

S Rank:

S Rank

Gligar
Typhlosion
Jynx

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Lanturn
Regirock
Dusknoir
Skuntank

A Rank

Kangaskhan
Sandslash
Porygon2

A- Rank

Electivire
Drifblim
Solrock
Miltank
Scyther
Sneasel
Toxicroak
Whiscash

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Hitmonlee
Weezing
Bellossom
Chimecho
Glaceon
Ninetales
Qwilfish
Poliwrath
Ursaring
Victreebel

B Rank

Abomasnow
Jumpluff
Kingler
Ludicolo
Ditto
Mr. Mime
Rotom-Frost
Rhydon
Gorebyss
Piloswine
Grumpig

B- Rank

Shiftry
Floatzel
Wormadam-Trash
Golem
Kadabra
Probopass
Rampardos

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Pelipper
Mawile
Lumineon
Raichu
Smeargle
Dodrio
Rapidash

C Rank

Corsola
Camerupt
Manectric
Kecleon
Meganium
Monferno
Charizard
Lunatone:
Regigigas
Muk
Huntail
Lapras

C- Rank

Armaldo
Regice
Shuckle
Tangela

Edit History

March 2nd 2022

We decided to put up a slate for Viability Rankings to better help people with their building and get a better picture of the meta! Since the builder doesn't really reflect the meta yet due to the ladder only being up for a couple days, this will hopefully help those looking to get into the meta.

Current Slate Info

Implemented March 2nd, 2022.
This slate can be found here and was voted on by the following people:

• Aawin​
• Corthius​
• Eve​
• Meri Berry​
• Pokeslice​

We may add more voters to this project in the future, but for now we've decided to stick with those already on the council to get this out as quickly as possible. We also went with a different ranking system for this slate, which is explained below.

Edit: Updated March 12th, 2022 to remove banned Pokemon Bibarel, Linoone, and Zangoose.
Edit: Updated March 14th, 2022 to remove banned Pokemon Sceptile and Tauros.

What do the current rankings mean?

We decided to go with a 4 tier ranking system for preliminary Viability Rankings. These 4 tiers are as follows:

• Top: This is reserved for Pokemon that will be seen extremely often, are relatively splashable, and their presence in the tier warps teambuilding.​
• High: This is for Pokemon that every team has to prepare for, but will not be seen in teams as often or do not warp the meta as much as those in Top tier.​
• Mid: This is for Pokemon that serve a more niche role in the metagame, meaning teams don't always have to prep for them or they are relatively uncommon.​
• Low: For Pokemon that serve a minor niche, but will generally not be seen on teams unless you build around them heavily.​

Top:
Haunter
Lanturn
Regirock

High:
Aerodactyl
Bellossom
Camerupt
Chimecho
Drifblim
Dusknoir
Electivire
Glaceon
Gligar
Gorebyss
Jynx
Kangaskhan
Ludicolo
Magmortar
Miltank
Mr. Mime
Ninetales
Qwilfish
Rhydon
Rotom-Frost
Sandslash
Skuntank
Sneasel
Typhlosion
Wormadam-Trash

Mid:
Abomasnow
Ampharos
Charizard
Exeggutor
Flareon
Floatzel
Golem
Grumpig
Jumpluff
Kadabra
Kecleon
Kingler
Lunatone
Manectric
Mawile
Meganium
Muk
Pelipper
Piloswine
Poliwrath
Porygon2
Probopass
Raichu
Rotom-Fan
Scyther
Shiftry
Smeargle
Solrock
Toxicroak
Ursaring
Victreebel
Volbeat

Low:
Altaria
Arbok
Armaldo
Banette
Butterfree
Combusken
Corsola
Dodrio
Dugtrio
Dunsparce
Dustox
Glalie
Golbat
Golduck
Huntail
Hypno
Illumise
Lapras
Leafeon
Lickilicky
Lumineon
Marowak
Misdreavus
Monferno
Mothim
Pikachu
Pinsir
Politoed
Rampardos
Rapidash
Regice
Regigigas
Relicanth
Shuckle
Slaking
Tangela
Tropius
Walrein
Whiscash
Wigglytuff

August 1st, 2022

Current Slate Info

Implemented August 1st, 2022.
More info about the changes can be seen here, and the slate was voted on by the following people:

• Aawin
• jawabarat
• Pokeslice
• Realistic Waters
• glock in my toyota

S Rank:

S Rank

Lanturn
Regirock
Gligar

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Aerodactyl
Kangaskhan
Haunter
Sandslash
Skuntank

A Rank

Bellossom
Chimecho
Drifblim
Glaceon
Mr. Mime
Ninetales
Rotom-Frost
Solrock
Typhlosion

A- Rank

Electivire
Jynx
Qwilfish
Rhydon

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Camerupt
Dusknoir
Exeggutor
Gorebyss
Magmortar
Miltank
Pelipper
Piloswine
Poliwrath
Scyther
Shiftry
Sneasel
Toxicroak
Ursaring

B Rank

Abomasnow
Jumpluff
Kingler
Ludicolo
Manectric
Mawile
Victreebel
Wormadam-Trash

B- Rank

Flareon
Floatzel
Golem
Grumpig
Kecleon
Meganium
Monferno
Porygon2
Whiscash

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Charizard
Kadabra
Leafeon
Lumineon
Lunatone
Muk
Probopass
Raichu
Regigigas
Slaking
Smeargle

C Rank

Corsola
Dodrio
Glalie
Huntail
Lapras
Rampardos
Rapidash
Rotom-Fan

C- Rank
Altaria
Ampharos
Armaldo
Combusken
Golbat
Marowak
Misdreavus
Regice
Shuckle
Tangela
Volbeat

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

A quick question, but why is Typhlosion ranked higher than Charizard? I'm guessing its because Typh is less vulnerable to Rocks and hits just as hard. (Yes Eruption gets weaker after Rocks but its movepool is so sparse you can easily fit in Fire Blast or Overheat or w/e else)

Also would Scarf be a viable set on the thing? I remember this set being a thing in prior gens.

Other mons I have questions about are Camerupt, Glaceon, Ampharos, and Bellossom. Some of these I know what they do but I'm curious as to why they're ranked the way they are.

 

[Perla]

I would also consider a potential ban on Damp Rock, honestly. You can really build powerful Rain teams with good rain setters like Phione and Volbeat.

Focusing on the general meta, I think that Linoone is the most problematic mon, just because it lives in a tier where normal spam is terrifying (Zangoose, Tauros...). One single Regirock can't check both Linoone and another normal threat. Moreover it's faster than Haunter!

And to conclude: don't overlook Bellossom!

 

[Meri Berry]

A quick question, but why is Typhlosion ranked higher than Charizard? I'm guessing its because Typh is less vulnerable to Rocks and hits just as hard. (Yes Eruption gets weaker after Rocks but its movepool is so sparse you can easily fit in Fire Blast or Overheat or w/e else)

Also would Scarf be a viable set on the thing? I remember this set being a thing in prior gens.

Other mons I have questions about are Camerupt, Glaceon, Ampharos, and Bellossom. Some of these I know what they do but I'm curious as to why they're ranked the way they are.

Scarf is by far the best set on Typhlosion, and Eruption is huge for it as well. Specs sets also are good, but I haven't seen them as much. Your analysis on why Charizard is worse is correct, and Flying STAB doesn't really help against Lanturn or Rock-types, which are the biggest checks to both of them currently. Roost isn't really useful given its massive weaknesses, especially since choiced sets are great right now.

Really quickly, I'll just quick fire your other 4:
Camerupt has a really powerful STAB combination and is bulky enough that speed doesn't hamper it too much.
Glaceon is one of the better mons in high, having near unresisted STABs due to Ice Beam and Freeze-Dry.
Ampharos is mid because it has potential, but its kind of slow and doesn't really have the same power as a Electivire does. Its still notable enough for mid still for now.
Bellossom is a really good check to Sceptile, and is also really dangerous with QD or Toxic utility sets.

 

[poh]

Sceptile should be getting looked at imo. It's way too fast and most checks don't have reliable recovery or get worn down very easily due to other roles they have to fulfill. SD takes care of the most solid checks like Bellossom and other bulkier grasses. Special sets have the luxury to run eq to screw with Skuntank and fire types while rock slide nails other mons like zard or scyther.

 

[Noden]

hold-up!!

Whiscash bodysurfs into the tier.

Hide

Whiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Anticipation
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 64 SpA
Lax Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Protect/Spark

What exactly this atrocious blue body yellow mustache alien so appealing to the tier? Well, first, let's look at it's move-pool, right now, there are 4 Pokemon that get scald, earth power, and ice beam, in the tier, surprising isn't it? It's Corsola, Politoed, Poliwrath and none other than whishcash.

The direct competitor to our yellow mustache, is the iconic rain frog, which.. doesn't get rain, as it got banned in RU, nonetheless, it has some pretty good stats, and competes with this pokemon right here, if.. only it wasn't for the Ground STAB, and, the typing, of course, however, keep in mind, Politoed is wayyy bulkier SPD wise, but to be honest, who cares!? Our mud Physical Wall has an earth-shattering 110 HP to make up for it.

Is it worth running Whiscash considering you are losing 14 SPA, 2 DEF, 30 spD, and 10 SPE? Yes, WITHOUT a doubt, need I remind you that our GUY LEARNS SPARK!? SPARK YES SPARK!! NO-SWITCH INS!!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspnu-1526662673
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspnu-1526669570
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspnu-1526673967

Don't forget to run spark while you soar the ladder!!

Water-ground

 

[Eve]

Hi all!


Bibarel, Zangoose, Linoone, and Heat Rock have been quickbanned from BDSP NU via a council vote.

Zangoose shouldn't need much explanation- it simply dumpsters everything in the tier while also being pretty fast, packing STAB priority to help circumvent faster threats, and having some variety beyond its already obscene 4 attacks set, namely in the form of Swords Dance or the totally excessive Belly Drum set. Speaking of Belly Drum, Linoone uses that, in combination with Extreme Speed, to easily mow through teams that aren't extremely careful around it in both the teambuilder and battle, to the point where it is just very unhealthy for the metagame. Bibarel might shock players less involved in the tier, but it's just as threatening as Linoone, if not even moreso- its Aqua Jet and Waterfall allow it to more easily bypass the likes of Aerodactyl, Scarf Haunter, and Regirock compared to Linoone, without sacrificing much else at all. Heat Rock was banned in order to tone down sun teams, which pack threats like Victreebel, Shiftry, and Exeggutor. The majority of the council believes these teams hold too high of a power level for the current metagame, hence the nerf. Tagging my bestie Kris to implement


We also looked at Sceptile, Jynx, Haunter, and Damp Rock, but there was not a majority consensus to ban any of these at the moment. They, along with Aerodactyl and potentially a few others, will remain on our radar in this post-Normals meta.

Blind Voting Slate

 

[Aawin]

With the new bans of Bibarel, Linoone, Zangoose, and Heat Rock, let's go over some winners and losers of these bans

Winners from the bans



Now this might seem like a very weird bunch of mons to say that they inherently won from the shift, but they all share a common trait of being faster, frail mons that fold to boosted priority in Quick Attack and Aqua Jet from Bibarel, Extreme Speed from Linoone, and QA from Zangoose. These mons being gone gives more leeway for these mons to clean more efficiently without fearing as much from priority now. Haunter in particular benefits from these changes, as now it can spam its STAB Shadow Ball a bit more freely.

Other Normal-types



With the wave of the blatantly fucked Normals out of the tier, the new wave can have a resurgence. Kangaskhan was sorely outclassed by Zangoose and Linoone for strong STAB priority, and could not clean as easily through teams since it didn't have the raw strength of Zangoose with Toxic Boosted Facade, or the immediate snowball effect like Linoone possessed with Belly Drum + ESpeed. Kangaskhan should see a rise in usage as its competition has gone away. Tauros has a better speed tier than the other Normals, but in comparison to the big 3, again, it lacked the power and consistency. Tauros falls into the same boat as Kanga for the most part. Dodrio and Ursaring are two underrated mons atm, and I'm expecting to see more of these on ladder and in tests. Personally I haven't really used Dodrio too extensively, but I do know Corthius has a team or two with it, and it puts in work. Ursaring is a devestating mon versus fatter squads, and resembles a slower Zangoose with those crispy ass Facades.


Normal-type Checks & Answers



The above Pokemon do lose 3 mons that they could check (barring Bibarel for the rocks) decently well by stomaching at least one hit. However, with the power level of the Normal-types dropping significantly, the above benefit from not being overwhelmed as easily and can now have more flexibility when answering these mons. Double Normal offenses could still prove troublesome, but the dedicated answers should have a much more comfortable time overall.


Losers from the bans

Sun (obviously)



This one should be pretty self-explanatory, but without Heat Rock in the tier, the playstyle loses a ton of leverage and expendable turns, making sun more difficult to achieve immediate success. I still think the playstyle will be usable to an extent, but not as brainless as it was with Heat Rock. Losing 3 turns can make a big difference in how the archetype functions, and I'm forecasting more rain than sun with Damp Rock still in the tier.

Screens HO

While Light Clay wasn't touched in this slate, banning 3 mons that flourished under screens and made the playstyle incredibly volatile does hinder its viability ever so slightly. The prowess of these Pokemon made screens super easy to pick up, click the right moves, and win within 15 turns. I think screens will still be a fine playstyle, but replacing Bibarel, Linoone, and Zangoose will be difficult, but not impossible.



There are probably a couple winners/losers I missed. As always, feedback and commentary are appreciated :)

 

[master oden]

hold-up!!

Whiscash bodysurfs into the tier.

Hide

Whiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Anticipation
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 64 SpA
Lax Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Protect/Spark

What exactly this atrocious blue body yellow mustache alien so appealing to the tier? Well, first, let's look at it's move-pool, right now, there are 4 Pokemon that get scald, earth power, and ice beam, in the tier, surprising isn't it? It's Corsola, Politoed, Poliwrath and none other than whishcash.

The direct competitor to our yellow mustache, is the iconic rain frog, which.. doesn't get rain, as it got banned in RU, nonetheless, it has some pretty good stats, and competes with this pokemon right here, if.. only it wasn't for the Ground STAB, and, the typing, of course, however, keep in mind, Politoed is wayyy bulkier SPD wise, but to be honest, who cares!? Our mud Physical Wall has an earth-shattering 110 HP to make up for it.

Is it worth running Whiscash considering you are losing 14 SPA, 2 DEF, 30 spD, and 10 SPE? Yes, WITHOUT a doubt, need I remind you that our GUY LEARNS SPARK!? SPARK YES SPARK!! NO-SWITCH INS!!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspnu-1526662673
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspnu-1526669570
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspnu-1526673967

Don't forget to run spark while you soar the ladder!!

Water-ground

I seriously think this is a troll post. As a bulky water, whishcash isnt bad but due to the loss of toxic on mostly everything including it, its pretty passive, and doesnt bring as much utility as other waters as well, cant pivot like lanturn and even lumineon. It also has no recovery which isnt great for it. As an offensive water i can see it being good with dragon dance and maybe some special set despite its very mediocre spatk but even then this is heavily prediction reliant as if they switch a grass into anything you use that isnt ice beam then whishcash is a liability, giving scary grasses like exegg and scep is something whishcash does that the almost always better lanturn does not do. Also i am not even going to discuss spark because that move is hella weak and since your whishcash has spatk and no atk investment its even weaker as spark is a physical move.

I do believe whishcash has a niche and isnt unviable or anything, however. Water ground is a great typing and its movepull offensively is pretty good, and it is one of the few (viable) dragon dancers.

 

[Pokeslice]

I seriously think this is a troll post. As a bulky water, whishcash isnt bad but due to the loss of toxic on mostly everything including it, its pretty passive, and doesnt bring as much utility as other waters as well, cant pivot like lanturn and even lumineon. It also has no recovery which isnt great for it. As an offensive water i can see it being good with dragon dance and maybe some special set despite its very mediocre spatk but even then this is heavily prediction reliant as if they switch a grass into anything you use that isnt ice beam then whishcash is a liability, giving scary grasses like exegg and scep is something whishcash does that the almost always better lanturn does not do. Also i am not even going to discuss spark because that move is hella weak and since your whishcash has spatk and no atk investment its even weaker as spark is a physical move.

I do believe whishcash has a niche and isnt unviable or anything, however. Water ground is a great typing and its movepull offensively is pretty good, and it is one of the few (viable) dragon dancers.

I gotta disagree with this post a bit. I've been theorizing a lot with Whiscash after struggling against it a lot on ladder, and it has a legitimate niche in the metagame. Because of its typing, Whiscash can solidify itself as one of the best Lanturn switch in in the tier, and although the lack of Toxic really sucks, it still has the movepool to put in work, whether with a bulky DD Rest set, offensive DD, or just a normal bulky Pokemon (maybe Sub Whirlpool shenanigans?). Its defensive traits go beyond checking Lanturn, as it's a really good answer of Aero and Regirock, two Pokemon that are absolutely dominating the tier at the moment, and Electivire, Magmortar, and Typhlosion, all of which are seeing an uptick in usage. Spark isn't even so memey, as I guess smacking Pelipper for 35-40 isn't that bad on specific teams.

The concern of letting in Grass-type breakers is valid, especially in a tier so full of them, but every good team right now should be able to handle them reliable, especially since Whiscash pairs well with many Grass answers like Skuntank, Trashdam, Aerodactyl, and defensive Grass-types. All in all, I think the pros outweigh the cons here, and I think Whiscash has a ton of valid potential in the tier that I'm excited to try and actualize. Just pack a Ninetales answer along side it :)