BDSP Battle Tower Discussion & Records


Here's one final submission before the new games come out. It's more Trick Room action, but with a few unusual choices.

The team

BDSP's list of viable Trick Room setters is rather short. I really wanted to give Slowking a go, having already tried Bronzong, Dusclops, and Dusknoir. The ClefChamp backline was, in many ways, a test run. Aside from the Slowking pick, there were a few questions I wanted answers to, such as:

- Does Machamp really need the Life Orb?
- Is Machamp too fast without an Iron Ball?
- Could Close Combat be better than Dynamic Punch?
- Can Machamp get away with CC's Def / SpD drops?
- Is Magic Guard + Life Orb Clefable really the way to go?
- Does Clefable deal enough damage without Life Orb?
- Is After You worth a moveslot, when paired with an Iron Ball and faster teammates?
- Is Unaware Clefable's superior ability in BDSP?

Some of the preconceptions were quickly proven wrong by the team's success. To be fair, many of the questions are far too team-dependent to have one correct answer. For example, Dynamic Punch was never tested, because Close Combat worked perfectly fine from the get-go. On the other hand, several Machamp teams on the leaderboard have found Dynamic Punch useful.

The team has quite a few anti-hax measures, despite not running Gravity. Having two Knock Off users makes removing items like Quick Claw and Focus Band (or even Bright Powder in Machamp's case) manageable, while No Guard and Unaware provide extra breathing room against evasion-based hax.

Slowking @ Lum Berry
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance

The EV spread is tailored to always survive a crit Shadow Ball from Gengar-3. This calc is the main reason to use Slowking instead of Slowbro, who sadly can't reach the same benchmark on the special side. Interestingly, this approach makes Slowking's bulk almost equal to Bronzong's. While the numbers may appear similar on paper, Bronzong has the edge in practice. Its Steel-typing combined with Heatproof makes it sturdier than Slowking, whose Water-type leaves it vulnerable to strong Electric-type attacks, in addition to nukes such as STAB Leaf Storm and Frenzy Plant. Slowking has to worry about Bug-type moves as well, the main offenders being X-Scissor and Megahorn. Much like Bronzong, Slowking should not be considered without Fake Out support. On the bright side, both Machamp and Clefable can come in on Bug- and Dark-type attacks aimed at Slowking once Trick Room is set. Slowking's resistance to Ice makes switching ever so slightly safer, since it rarely gets targeted by moves that can freeze.

Slowking has access to Oblivious, which grants it immunity to Taunt and Attract. The AI will still attempt to use these moves until the ability is revealed, and the momentum generated by any "wasted" turns is appreciated. The Taunt immunity is very useful against opposing Toxicroak-2 leads on opponents like Kennedy & Carlo, and Kennedy & Sherman. Both teams lead with Skarmory-3, whose Brave Bird is strong enough to OHKO Hariyama. Being able to use Fake Out against Skarmory saves Hariyama's life. Even better, it triggers Weak Armor, meaning that following up with a Close Combat KOs Skarmory-3 before it gets to move. Codi & Lionel is another great example, where the Taunt Toxicroak is partnered with Regigigas-2, a Substitute / Double Team / Thunder Wave / Ice Punch set. Seeing it fish for an Ice Punch freeze on Hariyama isn't uncommon, and denying any attempts of haxing helps a lot. The ability's other boon is the immunity to Attract. The only female Attract lead in the tower is Froslass, while its male colleagues, Vileplume-2 and Umbreon-2, are seen more frequently. This particular streak's Slowking was female (Slowqueen...?), while Hariyama was male. Admittedly, this part of the team could have been optimised further, but it's hard to say if there were any real improvements to be made.

What truly sets Slowking apart from Trick Room setters like Dusknoir and Bronzong is its moveset, and the playstyle difference that follows naturally. While the aforementioned two typically run Rain Dance to nerf Fire-types or enhance a backline Water-type sweeper's damage output, Slowking can take advantage of the boost by itself. The first version of the team ran a set of Trick Room / Rain Dance / Scald / Psychic, but an unceremonious loss at the hands of Palmer's Dragonite on battle #28 made it clear that Ice Beam was needed. Psychic was dropped for Ice Beam, a trade that turned out to be a net positive. The base Special Attack stat of 100 is nothing to scoff at, and both attacks deal respectable amounts of damage. Below is a list of some of the enemies that Slowking can dispatch, sometimes with a little help from its teammates. Lastly, Scald has a niche use in its ability to thaw out frozen teammates, but this tech never saw the light of day during the streak.
- Scald handles all Rhydon and Rhyperior sets (including Palmer's), at worst having 14/16 odds of OHKOing Rhyperior-3. Passho Berry Rhydon-3 gets OHKOed in rain.
- A rain-boosted Scald will OHKO all Charizard and Typhlosion sets
- Scald 2HKOs all uninvested Heatran and Entei sets (apart from the physical set with Passho Berry). Snarl can troll, though
- Almost every dragon falls to the combination of Fake Out and Ice Beam. Dragonite sets (such as Palmer's) might survive, but this can be played around.
- Ice Beam will finish off Staraptor sets after they OHKO Hariyama with Brave Birb
- Fake Out together with Ice Beam checkmate Barry's Torterra-5, since it'll faint to Wood Hammer recoil

While Bronzong and Dusknoir tend to leave the field after using Gravity and/or Rain Dance, Slowking rarely has reason to switch out. The majority of battles, including every Barry & Palmer duo, end with Slowking still in play. The simplicity of having the TR setter stay in and spam attacks is a welcome change of pace. This difference in playstyle makes Slowking extremely fun to play in BDSP. Raw damage is not all that Scald and Ice Beam have to offer, either. Scald-induced burns nerf physical attackers severely, in addition to messing with with Endure and Focus Band users. Ice Beam will occasionally leave its targets frozen, which can trivialise otherwise dangerous matchups. The same theme continues with Clefable's Moonblast (-SpA proc), and arguably Machamp's Stone Edge (increased critical rate) as well. While the secondary effects are powerful, gameplans should not be built around them.

Last but not least, Slowking sports an excellent Speed tier of 31. This lets it move before most things not called Shuckle, including threats such as Torkoal-2 (36 Speed), and a -1 Speed Snorlax-4 (33 Speed after a Curse).

Hariyama @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 124 Def / 132 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Heavy Slam

A familiar face, and for good reason. It's basically the same Hari as team Octillery used, with Heavy Slam completing the go-to moveset for non-Gravity teams. Most of what is said in the other team's writeup applies to this squad as well.

However, the EV spread was fine-tuned a little bit. This team doesn't require Hariyama to survive two Wood Hammers from Barry's Torterra, since it gets targeted by Fake Out. This allows Hariyama to invest slightly more into Special Defense, resulting in a final spread of 252 Atk / 124 Def / 132 SpD. The increased special bulk is helpful against various leads, such as Latias-2 (Jaclyn & Kaila), and Abomasnow-4 (Ellis & Irene). Opposing Download users, most importantly Porygon-Z-2, still receive an Attack boost.

Machamp @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch

Close Combat spam works well in BDSP's tower, where the vast majority of Fairy-types are nowhere to be found. It's not just the ones introduced in later generations that are absent: even Azumarill and Clefable are missing from doubles masters. This makes Hariyama and Machamp's shared weaknesses less detrimental: Psychic-types are covered by Knock Off, while Stone Edge brings down Flying-types (including Togekiss). Fire Punch rounds off the set, offering a surefire way of stopping Scizor-2 in its tracks. The move has a blessed OHKO on all Heracross sets as well.

The reasoning for running Life Orb and Close Combat is simple: Walrein-2. This monster of an opponent has very high physical bulk thanks to its Bold nature and an EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def. It also carries Bright Powder (because why not), and has Fissure and Sheer Cold as its only damaging moves. Nothing short of a Life Orb-boosted Close Combat has enough power to guarantee an OHKO on Walrein-2. The next best thing, Black Belt CC, has around 81% odds of one-shotting it. Furthermore, No Guard negates Bright Powder's effect, which turns Life Orb CC into a near-perfect counter.

Machamp can get away with Close Combat's defensive debuffs for a couple of reasons. Firstly, most foes that can take a hit from Machamp typically have a maxed out Defense stat, like many of the Suicune and Cresselia sets. Machamp's solid 90/80/85 bulk lets it tank weaker, uninvested attacks. One of the examples is a STAB Psychic from Cresselia-5: 0 SpA Cresselia Psychic vs. -1 252 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 138-164 (70 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Secondly, the tower's multi battle-esque ruleset for the AI works in Machamp's favour. Once a 2v1 is achieved, the remaining enemies rarely get to move before fainting. In this sense, the hyper-aggressive nature of the lead duo plays to Machamp's strengths as well.

The low-effort EV spread of 252/252/4 isn't perfect, but it's decent enough to sustain Machamp. Several miscellaneous calcs can be found below.

The Walrein-2 ranges mentioned earlier, plus Dynamic Punch calcs for the sake of comparison
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 226-268 (104.1 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Black Belt Machamp Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 210-248 (96.7 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 190-226 (87.5 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 146-174 (67.2 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A blessed Gyarados-2 one-two punch, useful vs Ellis & Barrett
-1 252+ Atk Guts Hariyama Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 70-83 (34.6 - 41%)
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 133-159 (65.8 - 78.7%)

Every Heracross set, including Barry's
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 156-185 (100 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The dreaded Vespiquen-2 needs two Def boosts to even think about surviving Stone Edge, and No Guard nulls Double Team
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Stone Edge vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Vespiquen: 166-198 (93.7 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Barry's Snorlax-4 after a Curse. Can be combined with Slowking's Scald for a guaranteed KO, which lets you avoid the Mago Berry
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Close Combat vs. +1 4 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 203-242 (86 - 102.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Torkoal-2, specifically the one used by Ellis & Irene as a backliner. A severe blow to Eruption's base power, letting Machamp and Clefable tank it with ease
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 125-148 (70.6 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

CC has enough power to 2HKO a last mon Ludicolo-2, even if its Scald burns Machamp after the first one
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ludicolo: 133-156 (71.1 - 83.4%)
252+ Atk Life Orb burned Machamp Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ludicolo: 66-78 (35.2 - 41.7%)



In some cases, Machamp may be forced to tank a Bullet Punch from Scizor-2 after using CC on Lapras-2 (Tavon & Harvey). The AI needs a 11/16 roll to KO after Life Orb recoil.
+2 20 Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 157-186 (79.6 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Quick Claw Slowbro-3, and Slowking-3 both underspeed Machamp
252+ SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Machamp: 162-192 (82.2 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Machamp: 162-192 (82.2 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Running Life Orb instead of an Iron Ball leaves Machamp with a Speed tier of 54, letting various foes underspeed it while Trick Room is active. However, this is less of an issue because of the final member of the team. Introducing...

Clefable @ Iron Ball
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
IVs: 0 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot
- After You

Iron Ball Clefable. At a glance, it seems silly to not have Clefable hold the Life Orb, when it even gets Magic Guard as an ability.

As mentioned at the beginning of the post, this set was a great way of testing a few theories. Clefable's vast movepool includes basically every special attack one could hope for, and its supporting options are equally versatile. Opting to run After You on Clefable warranted an Iron Ball as the item of choice. In the end, Clefable was able to "field test" three things at once:

1) Is Clefable's damage output sufficient without Life Orb?
2) The viability of After You in BDSP (if Clefable works as an After You user, then so does Snorlax, etc.)
3) Unaware's value in BDSP's tower

Clefable is essentially playing a support role for the rest of the squad, be it aiding Machamp with After You, or dealing chip damage to opponents so that its teammates can go for the KOs. Clefable is far from passive, however. Its attacks deal respectable damage thanks to Quiet nature and 252 EVs in SpA, and Moonblast's numbers are similar to those of a rain-boosted Scald from Slowking. Flamethrower and Grass Knot were selected to bolster the team's weak spots. Some of the targets include Scizor-2 (appears as a lead on three different teams), Abomasnow-4 (Ellis & Irene), Forretress sets (Iron Ball Clefable underspeeds them), various slow Rock/Ground mons, Swampert-3, and Gastrodon-3 (Grass Knot has a blessed 2HKO through its Rindo Berry). Ice Beam was a contender for the last moveslot, but it was deemed unnecessary with Slowking already sporting it, and Machamp's combo of Stone Edge and Fire Punch covering many of the targets. The rest of the team compensates for Clefable's inability of handling Fire-types with their Water, Fighting, and Rock-type attacks.

The final move, After You, is what truly allows Machamp to get away with not using a Speed-halving item. Having Clefable hold the Iron Ball instead leaves it with an excellent Speed tier of 29. After You is an absolute lifesaver versus several slow threats. For example, the team would get swept by Ellis & Irene's backline Torkoal-2 if not for After You. Other threats include Barry's Snorlax, all Slowking and Slowbro sets, and Curse Registeel-1. While After You was used on Machamp the majority of the time, Hariyama can benefit from it as well. That being said, Hariyama rarely needs the support, since its Speed tier of 49 is much better than Machamp's.

The EV spread is classic 252/252/4 gaming, but it's likely close to optimal for this team. Clefable has to tank many miscellaneous hits, both physical and special. To give an idea, Clefable survives a Flash Cannon from Palmer's Heatran (team #3), and a critical Bullet Punch from Scizor-2 (note that Unaware lets Clefable ignore Swords Dance).

252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 168-198 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
20 Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Clefable on a critical hit: 168-198 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Last but not least, Unaware turned out to be an exceptional ability for BDSP's tower. Defensively, it gives Clefable a better matchup against the Scizor set listed above, in addition to almost all Curse and Calm Mind users. Offensively, it allows Clefable to ignore opposing SpD boosts, as well as Double Team. Unaware has most of Gravity's benefits (although only for the user), without taking up an important moveslot. Machamp's No Guard combined with Clefable's Unaware made opposing evasion hax much more bearable.


Nadia & Dalvin - (Nadia: :gengar: Gengar-3, :milotic: Milotic-3 & Dalvin: :crobat: Crobat-2, :pinsir: Pinsir-3)

Both of the leads are immune to Fake Out's flinch. Nothing protects Slowking from getting ganged up on, and Brave Bat and Shadow Ball together can stop Trick Room from going up. Fortunately, Crobat rarely passes on the guaranteed KO it has on Hariyama.

Tasha & Darcy team #2 - (Tasha: :pinsir: Pinsir-2, :dugtrio: Dugtrio-3 & Darcy: :drapion: Drapion-2, :breloom: Breloom-2)

Pinsir's X-Scissor can OHKO Slowking with a crit, and Bright Powder can cause Fake Out to whiff. Luckily, Drapion-2 has yet to select Roar on the first turn, and seems to prefer using its other three moves.

Kristi & Antony - (Kristi: :torterra: Torterra-3, :exploud: Exploud-3 & Antony: :gengar: Gengar-2, :gastrodon: Gastrodon-3)

Torterra-3's Frenzy Plant will OHKO Slowking if it crits, which warrants a Fake Out. Unfortunately, Torterra carries Bright Powder just like Pinsir-2, so teams leading with it are shaky matchups.

Mikel & Lyle - (Mikel: :staraptor: Staraptor-3, :rhydon: Rhydon- & Lyle: :torterra: Torterra-3, :blastoise: Blastoise-3)

Torterra-3 returns, partnered with Staraptor-3. Using Fake Out on the former typically results in Hariyama immediately dying to Brave Birb. The recoil puts Staraptor in Ice Beam's KO range, however. Lastly, the backline features the dangerous Quick Claw Blastoise-3.

Jayden & Josie team #1 - (Jayden: :manectric: Manectric-3, :rhydon: Rhydon-2 & Josie: :torterra: Torterra-3, :feraligatr: Feraligatr-3)

It's the same Torterra set as described above, but partnered with Manectric-3. The latter's Thunder can OHKO Slowking with a crit, which means both of the enemy leads threaten the Trick Room setter. Manectric is the preferred Fake Out target, since it doesn't hold Bright Powder.

Carlo & Alonso - (Carlo: :articuno: Articuno-4, :glalie: Glalie-2 & Alonso: :magnezone: Magnezone-2, :latias: Latias-2)

Fake Out must be used to stop Articuno from clicking Sheer Cold, which lets Magnezone-2 attack freely. Its Thunderbolt has 3/16 odds of OHKOing Slowking with a critical hit, which could be fixed with an alternate EV spread. However, Carlo & Alonso are the only duo to lead with Magnezone-2, so adjusting EVs did not feel necessary.

Bryon & Hernan - (Bryon: :slowking: Slowking-3, :moltres: Moltres-2 & Hernan: :froslass: Froslass-2, :blastoise: Blastoise-3)

Bright Powder Slowking-3 is a poor lead matchup, and Froslass-2 gets to use Attract on Hariyama unimpeded. Swagger and Blizzard's freeze chance discourage switching, and the last mon, Quick Claw Blastoise-3, can snipe weakened targets. Things rarely go according to plan with so many coinflips involved.

Titus & Ryne - (Titus: :heatran: Heatran-5, :rapidash: Rapidash-3 & Ryne: :zapdos: Zapdos-4, :gallade: Gallade-2)

Fake Out is required to stop Zapdos-4 from unleashing its powerful STAB Thunder. Unfortunately, this one has Static, so Hariyama risks paralysing itself on the first turn. It doesn't help that the other lead, Heatran-5, loves using Dark Pulse on Slowking.

Kelton & Joy - (Kelton: :skarmory: Skarmory-2, :slowbro: Slowbro-3 & Joy: :regice: Regice-1, :mr-mime: Mr. Mime-2)

Skarmory-2 has an annoying habit of using Sand Attack on Hariyama. It might also resist switch to Slowbro-3 after Slowking's attacks, which complicates things further.

Ellis & Irene team #1 - (Ellis: :abomasnow: Abomasnow-4, :rhyperior: Rhyperior-4 & Irene: :bronzong: Bronzong-3, :rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash-2)
Ellis & Irene team #2 - (Ellis: :abomasnow: Abomasnow-4, :torkoal: Torkoal-2 & Irene: :bronzong: Bronzong-3, :rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash-2)

Fake Out must be used to stop any Rock Slide attempts from Irene's Bronzong-3. Slowking has enough special bulk to survive a crit Energy Ball from Abomasnow-4, which makes setting Trick Room consistent. However, not clicking Fake Out on Abomasnow lets it fish for a Blizzard freeze on Hariyama. Should that happen, Scald would be required to defrost Hariyama, instead of guaranteeing a KO on Bronzong. Its odds of surviving Knock Off are less than 1/16, so a lot of bad luck would be required for Trick Room to be reset on the second turn. There are a couple of ways of countering the backline Torkoal-2. Slowking's Rain Dance shuts it down with ease, should the TR setter still be on the field. Alternatively, Clefable's After You lets Machamp underspeed Torkoal and hit it with Stone Edge, greatly reducing Eruption's base power.

Tyrell & Mikel - (Tyrell: :meganium: Meganium-3, :walrein: Walrein-2 & Mikel: :weezing: Weezing-3, :skarmory: Skarmory-2)

A combination of Fake Out, Ice Beam, and Close Combat results in the opposing Meganium-3 going down before it gets to move. Machamp has Walrein-2's number, too. The problem lies with Quick Claw Weezing-3, who can deny Trick Room with a Dark Pulse flinch, or 2HKO Hariyama with Sludge Bomb. Not having time to use Knock Off on Weezing right away makes the battle unpredictable.

Anissa & Kegan (Anissa: :walrein: Walrein-2, :kingdra: Kindgra-2 & Kegan: :steelix: Steelix-2, :ludicolo: Ludicolo-2)

Fake Out might not hit Walrein-2 due to its Bright Powder, which can result in Sheer Cold KOing Slowking before Trick Room goes up. If that happens, you're essentially one OHKO move away from losing: Hariyama has to pray that Sheer Cold whiffs, while hoping that CC lands on Walrein-2. No Guard Machamp has no chance of winning against Walrein-2 if Trick Room is denied.

Yvette & Kendel (Yvette: :slowking: Slowking-2, :lanturn: Lanturn-3 & Kendel: :whiscash: Whiscash-2, :hippowdon: Hippowdon-2)

Fissure limits gameplans severely, and Slowking-2 tends to revenge kill Hariyama after Close Combat downs Whiscash. The safest way of dealing with this duo is to ignore Slowking-2, while KOing Whiscash-2 and Hippowdon-2 first. Machamp can't contend with the opposing Slowking-2 because of the Speed difference, so Clefable and the player's Slowking will have to do most of the heavy lifting. After You is rarely a practical option against Yvette & Kendel, since Hippowdon-2's Yawn can ruin switch-ins.

Johanna & Blair (Johanna: :mamoswine: Mamoswine-2, :tauros: Tauros-3 & Blair: :gengar: Gengar-3, :regirock: Regirock-3)

Mamoswine binds Hariyama to using both Fake Out and Close Combat on it, leaving Gengar-3 to do as it pleases. The enemy backline will fall quickly once the leads are dealt with.

Chester & Tiffani (Chester: :rapidash: Rapidash-2, :magnezone: Magnezone-2 & Tiffani: :zapdos: Zapdos-3, :skuntank: Skuntank-2)

Zapdos-3 might flinch Slowking with King's Rock U-turn, while its partner Rapidash takes Fake Out priority thanks to Horn Drill. Zapdos-3 is more likely to use Drill Peck on Hariyama, however.

Kailey & Jaclyn (Kailey: :zapdos: Zapdos-3, :weezing: Weezing-2 & Jaclyn: :whiscash: Whiscash-2, :altaria: Altaria-2)

Same as above, but with Fissure Whiscash instead of Rapidash.

Layne & Noelle team #1 - (Layne: :machamp: Machamp-2, :yanmega: Yanmega-2 & Noelle: :cresselia: Cresselia-5, :alakazam: Alakazam-2)
Layne & Noelle team #2 - (Layne: :wailord: Wailord-2, :yanmega: Yanmega-2 & Noelle: :cresselia: Cresselia-5, :kangaskhan: Kangaskhan-2)

Both rosters are very good at punishing the teambuilding choice of running two Fighting-types. Layne & Noelle are not be underestimated, despite Yanmega-2 being a Modest special attacker with 252 EVs erroneously placed in Attack.

The strategy is similar in both cases: defeat Layne's side first in order to force a 2v1. Both Machamp-2 and Wailord-2 will get OHKOed by Hariyama's Close Combat, while Yanmega gets destroyed by Stone Edge. Cresselia-5 is unpredictable, and whether it chooses to Psychic Hariyama or Shadow Ball Slowking seems like a coinflip. To give an example, a theoretical battle versus the second team is pasted below. It assumes that Cresselia KOs Hariyama on the second turn, which is the worst thing it can do.

T1: TR, Fake Out Cress. Wailord uses Water Spout (does around 50% to Hari)
T2: Switch Slowking -> Machamp, CC Wailord (guaranteed KO). Cresselia's Psychic KOs Hari, send Clefable. Yanmega replaces Wailord.
T3: Stone Edge Yanmega, Moonblast Cress. Cress hits Machamp with Psychic (does 46-56% non-crit)
T4: Knock Off & Moonblast Cress. If Yanmega used Detect on the previous turn, KO it with Stone Edge first
T5: and onwards: finish Cresselia, set Trick Room again, and proceed to 2v1 Kanga

Yanmega has not opted to click Detect thus far, but if it does, then Cresselia gets to 2HKO Machamp before Knock Off is used. The battle is still winnable with Slowking and Clefable, though. Rain Dance halves Moonlight's HP recovery, and any Moonblast procs from Clefable will help a lot. The first team's Alakazam-2 is much more dangerous than Kangaskhan-2, but it has shown to occasionally use Future Sight. Clefable's Unaware should let it overcome potential Calm Mind boosts, as well.

Christa & Benny - (Christa: :cresselia: Cresselia-2, :meganium: Meganium-3 & Benny: :regirock: Regirock-2, :slowking: Slowking-2)

Christa's side features a dual screens Meganium-3 in the back, while her lead Cresselia-2 lacks offensive investment. As such, it's safer to take Benny's side down first. Regirock-2 is easily removed by Scald and Close Combat, and the backline Slowking-2 will fall to Knock Off and Grass Knot. This duo has two main problems: firstly, Slowking-2 underspeeds Machamp (but not Hariyama). This limits the options, considering that Machamp doesn't want to tank a Psychic from it, and Knock Off alone is not enough to KO it. In most cases, Hariyama is able to land a hit on Slowking-2, which lets Clefable finish it off.

The second problem stems from Cresselia-2's moveset, Lunar Dance / Safeguard / Future Sight / Psychic. It prefers using Future Sight first, likely due to the move's greater base power. As it turns out, it can sometimes choose to target Slowking (player's) with it, even when there's a -1 SpD Hariyama on the field. With animations off, there's no way of knowing which slot Cresselia was aiming at. Additionally, Future Sight DOES NOT get redirected to the remaining slot if its primary target dies earlier during the same turn. For example:

T1: Trick Room, Fake Out Cress. Regirock-2 uses EQ
T2: Scald & CC Regi (guaranteed KO). Cress uses Safeguard. Slowking-2 replaces the fallen Regirock.
T3: Switch Slowking -> Clefable, Knock Off Slowking-2. Slowking-2's Psychic KOs Hari, Cress uses Future Sight.

In this scenario, it's impossible to tell which slot Future Sight was targeted on. This adds an infuriating element of RNG to the rest of the battle, since Machamp really doesn't want to get hit by Future Sight. For reference, a critical hit is guaranteed to KO Machamp after one round of Life Orb recoil. It's worth noting that while Cress used Safeguard in the example above, Future Sight is a more common choice on the second turn. Christa & Benny are one of the rare duos that punish Fighting-type stacking.

Notable battles

Andreas & Dalvin - (Andreas: :staraptor: Staraptor-2, :ambipom: Ambipom-2 & Dalvin: :marowak: Marowak-3, :armaldo: Armaldo-2)

Rarely does one get to use Knock Off on a Marowak to nerf its damage output. Slowking gets to shine, too.

T1: TR, Fake Out Marowak. Staraptor's Brave Birb OHKOs Hari. Send Machamp

This is fine - the recoil from KOing Hari allows Slowking to snipe Staraptor on the next turn.

T2: Ice Beam Staraptor, Knock Off Marowak. Staraptor faints. Marowak's itemless EQ does around half to Machamp, and even less to Slowking. Ambipom comes out.

Andreas & Dalvin are the only duo where this move makes sense. Additionally, Knock Off's chip damage lets Slowking KO Marowak with Scald on the next turn.

T3: Scald Marowak, CC Ambipom. Both of them fall. Dalvin sends out his last mon, Armaldo.

Ambipom-2 is the special set without Fake Out, so it just dies.

T4: Scald & Stone Edge the Armaldo.

Armaldo-2 carries Focus Sash, but it doesn't help in a 2v1. Unlucky.

Alonso & River - (Alonso: :slowbro: Slowbro-2, :swampert: Swampert-3 & River: :nidoking: Nidoking-2, :regice: Regice-3)

An exercise in patience. Going for a quick win by sending Machamp in early is tempting. However, this can backfire horribly with Slowbro-2 sporting Yawn, not to mention its better Speed tier enabling Zen Headbutt flinches on Machamp. Switching in on Regice-3's Ice Beam isn't safe, either. In the end, Slowking puts in a lot of work, as per usual.

T1: TR, Fake Out Nidoking. Slowbro Yawns Slowking.
T2: Scald Nidoking. Knock Off Slowbro. Zen Headbutt and Earth Power KO Hariyama. Lum Berry is taken by Yawn, send Clef to replace Hari
T3: Scald Nido, Grass Knot Slowbro. Both faint - Regice and Swampert come out.
T4: Scald & Grass Knot Swampert. Swampert survives with a sliver of health remaining and uses Curse. Regi's Charge Beam hits Slowking, +SpA
T5: Finish Swampert with Scald, Flamethrower Regice. Regi Ice Beams Clefable. Trick Room fades at the end of the turn.
T6: TR, Flamethrower Regi. Another Ice Beam lands on Clef, leaving it frozen.
T7: Switch Slowking -> Machamp. Clef still frozen. Charge Beam hits Machamp on the switch in, Regice is now at +2 SpA
T8: Machamp's CC is enough to KO Regice.

Bryon & Hernan - (Bryon: :slowking: Slowking-3, :moltres: Moltres-2 & Hernan: :froslass: Froslass-2, :blastoise: Blastoise-3)

A comeback story with After You coming in clutch. The leads are just awful.

T1: TR, Fake Out Slowking-3. Fake Out connects, Froslass uses Attract on Hariyama.

Using Fake Out on a Bright Powder Slowking-3 is always a bit scary, but it works out this time. Froslass decides to do Froslass things - Attract is unavoidable with a male Hariyama.

T2: Scald Froslass, Knock Off Slowking-3. Hari is immobilised by love. Slowking-2 hits Hari with Psychic while Froslass's Blizzard whiffs, so Hari somehow survives on 24 HP.

Scald's chip damage lets Clefable KO Froslass later in the fight (T5). Switching anything into a Blizzard is risky, so trying to hit Slowking-3 is the safest course of action on this turn. Unfortunately, Knock Off being denied forces a more risky strategy.

T3: Switch Slowking -> Clefable, Knock Off Slowking-3. Hari is still immobilised by love, and dies to a second Psychic from Slowking. Blizzard hits Clefable. Send Machamp in

The low-HP Hariyama dying was to be expected. Having Clefable and Machamp on the field at the same time is ideal, because Machamp needs After You support to underspeed Slowking-3. The switch to Clef is justifiable for this reason, despite the risk of getting frozen.

T4: After You + Knock Off Slowking-3. It faints. Froslass uses Attract on Machamp. Moltres is sent out at the end of the turn.

The second Attract is of no consequence. Froslass will get KOed by Clef long before Machamp attempts to move - a combo made possible by the Scald on the second turn.

T5: Flamethrower Froslass, Stone Edge Moltres. Both foes bite the dust as Trick Room fades. The final enemy is a Quick Claw Blastoise-3.

Clefable is sitting on 54% HP, while Machamp is untouched apart from two rounds of Life Orb recoil. Blastoise needs a Hydro Pump crit to KO Clefable. Machamp appears to be completely outside of Hydro Pump's KO range, being able to survive even a max roll crit with 2 HP (with the previous Life Orb recoil taken into account). #blessed

T6: Grass Knot & Close Combat Blastoise. It lands a Hydro Pump on Clefable, then faints to CC.

Alas, things don't go Blastoise's way. Machamp gets the 12/16 roll required for a clean OHKO.

Tyrell & Mikel - (Tyrell: :meganium: Meganium-3, :walrein: Walrein-2 & Mikel: :weezing: Weezing-3, :skarmory: Skarmory-2)

The gameplan is the same as before: nuke Meganium-3 and Walrein-2 down first, and worry about Weezing-3 and Skarmory-2 later.

T1: Trick Room, Fake Out Meganium. Weezing uses Sludge Bomb on Hariyama.

So far so good. Weezing not using Dark Pulse lets TR activate safely. Unfortunately, a second Sludge Bomb can now KO Hari after Close Combat's -SpD debuff.

T2: Ice Beam & CC Meganium. Quick Claw activates, and Weezing's Dark Pulse hits Slowking. No flinch, Ice Beam and CC KO Meganium. Walrein comes out at the end of the turn.

So many things could have gone wrong here. A flinch on Slowking would have allowed Meganium to use either Reflect or Light Screen. With Meganium gone, Hariyama gets a shot at OHKOing the Bright Powder Walrein with Close Combat. A QC Sludge Bomb from Weezing can deny such an attempt, though.

T3: Scald Weezing, CC Walrein. Close Combat misses, and Sludge Bomb KOs Hari. Walrein's Fissure whiffs Slowking. Send Machamp to replace Hariyama.

Fissure missing was very fortunate - Slowking dying here would have given Weezing a free Sludge Bomb on Clefable. Machamp has Walrein dead to rights with No Guard negating Bright Powder.

T4: Ice Beam Weezing, CC Walrein (guaranteed OHKO). Weezing uses Sludge Bomb on Machamp. Machamp is on 25% HP at the end of the turn.

Scald + Ice Beam + Knock Off will be enough to KO Weezing. Since Scald didn't burn Weezing earlier, it was possible to fish for a freeze on this turn. The weakened Machamp is at Quick Claw Weezing's mercy, but there really was no opportune moment to use Knock Off on it earlier.

T5: Scald & Knock Off Weezing. No Quick Claw, Weezing faints. Skarmory enters the field as Trick Room fades.

The combination of Scald + Ice Beam + Scald would've had good odds of KOing Weezing even if Machamp got sniped by Quick Claw.

T6: Trick Room, CC. Skarmory's Drill Peck KOs Machamp, and TR activates again. Send Clefable

Letting Skarmory KO Machamp is a good way of ensuring Trick Room going up again. Skarmory-2 doesn't run Steel-type attacks, which lets Slowking and Clefable win the 2v1 reliably. The battle is essentially won, unless Skarmory pulls off some extreme Sand Attack hax.

T7: Scald & Flamethrower Skarm. Occa Berry triggers, and Scald burns Skarm. Drill Peck does little to Clefable.

Flamethrower is Clefable's best option despite the Occa Berry. Nothing can stop a second Flamethrower from KOing Skarmory on the next turn.

T8: Flamethrower KOs Skarm, GGs.

Herman & Natalia team #1 - (Herman: :politoed: Politoed-4, :zapdos: Zapdos-7 & Natalia: :kingdra: Kingdra-4, :scizor: Scizor-5)
Herman & Natalia team #2 - (Herman: :politoed: Politoed-4, :lapras: Lapras-3 & Natalia: :kingdra: Kingdra-4, :scizor: Scizor-5)

Politoed-4 is such a troll. Herman & Natalia always bring some new tricks to each rematch.

T1: TR, Fake Out Kingdra. Politoed Protects.

No complaints. The fewer times Toed attacks, the better. Ignoring the wild card Politoed is the safest strategy overall.

T2: Ice Beam & Knock Off Kingdra. Politoed Hydro Pumps Hariyama for 55%. Kingdra faints, and is replaced by Scizor.

The combination of all three attacks on Kingdra is as perfect of a calc as it gets, dealing exactly 151 damage with minimum rolls. Doing so allows Hariyama to avoid Close Combat's defensive debuffs, which normally lets it survive for longer. Unfortunately, Politoed's Hydro Pump lowers Hari's HP to a point where Choice Band Bullet Punch is a guaranteed KO. Scizor might not always go for the priority move, since its U-turn can destroy Slowking. As a result, it's best to double into Scizor just in case. Rain-boosted Scalds deal 48% minimum to Scizor, and a lucky burn can secure a 2HKO.

T3: Scald & CC Scizor. Bullet Punch KOs Hariyama, but Scald burns Scizor in return. Politoed uses Perish Song. Send Machamp

Slowking continues to impress as it scores a wonderfully timed burn on the Choice Band Scizor. Perish Song being used here means that Politoed is guaranteed to switch out on the sixth turn, which would allow for a safe Trick Room activation. However, the AI doesn't follow the pattern religiously, and will sometimes switch out before the final turn. This could create a problem if the switch occurs on the fifth turn. With Hariyama already dead, Machamp is the team's best counter to the last mon Lapras and/or Zapdos sets. However, Machamp requires Trick Room to stand a chance against either foe, since both Sheer Cold and Hurricane will demolish it otherwise.

Since there's no way of knowing when Politoed is going to switch out, keeping Machamp on the field serves as insurance against Herman's final mystery mon. The burn on Scizor is a tremendous help, because it allows Machamp to survive Bullet Punch and a Hydro Pump from Politoed. At the same time, Fire Punch can be used to KO Scizor thanks to Scald's damage. Removing Scizor grants Clefable a chance to enter the fray. Slowking struggles against Politoed, while Clefable's matchups is much better. Grass Knot only reaches a base power of 60 versus Politoed, so Moonblast is Clef's ideal attack in this scenario.
Machamp's survival on the fourth turn:

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician burned Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 51-60 (25.8 - 30.4%)
0 SpA Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Machamp in Rain: 99-117 (50.2 - 59.3%)

Scald + Fire Punch vs Scizor-5, in rain

0 SpA Slowking Scald vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Scizor in Rain: 84-99 (48 - 56.5%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Fire Punch vs. 236 HP / 20 Def Scizor in Rain: 114-140 (65.1 - 80%)

Clefable vs Politoed-4

252+ SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Politoed: 72-85 (36.5 - 43.1%)
252+ SpA Clefable Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Politoed: 62-74 (31.4 - 37.5%)
T4: Switch Slowking -> Clefable, Fire Punch Scizor. Bullet Punch hits Machamp before Fire Punch KOs Scizor. Politoed switches to Lapras.

And there it is, the instant switch out. To recap, all mons affected by Perish Song have either fainted or switched out. Choosing to keep Machamp on the field was the right call - Lapras is about to get ruined by Close Combat. In fact, it's possible to avoid CC's debuffs by using Grass Knot and Stone Edge to KO Lapras. The battle should be won, right?

...Yeah, about that. Life Orb's recoil will put Machamp into guaranteed KO range for Politoed's next Hydro Pump (even if CC is not used). Since Lapras must die on the fifth turn, Politoed will return on the sixth, which is perfect timing for Drizzle's second activation. Trick Room will be gone as well, so the first Hydro Pump can't be stopped. Politoed is sitting on full health, and its held Aguav Berry is intact, too. It may also try to use Perish Song again. A quick check-in with a Bulbapedia article confirms the move's mechanics: "if the perish count of multiple Pokémon on the field reaches 0 at the end of a turn, they will now faint in the same order they would move in". Of course, Politoed moves last while Trick Room is active. In essence, what seemed to be a battle easily won is now very throwable.

After comparing the two ways of disposing Lapras, it appears that taking the Close Combat OHKO is safer. The short version is that keeping Clefable in would risk it being 2HKOed by Hydro Pump in exchange for a single Moonblast, which is far from an ideal trade.

T5: Switch Clef -> Slowking, CC Lapras. Lapras falls, and Politoed joins the fight once again. Trick Room fades. Rain ends, but gets instantly reapplied by Drizzle.

Switching Slowking back in lets it reactivate Trick Room sooner. For the next turn, switching Machamp out is the correct play, lest Hydro Pump KOs it. Then, Slowking and Clefable can start spamming Scald and Moonblast on their lone opponent.

T6: Trick Room, switch Machamp -> Clefable. Politoed uses Protect.

Never mind, Politoed is throwing.

T7: Scald & Moonblast Politoed. It uses Helping Hand, presumably on some imaginary friend.

Imagine spending 30 minutes carefully crafting gameplans for every possible outcome, and this is what the opponent does?

T8: Scald & Moonblast Politoed. Aguav Berry procs, Perish Song is used.

Too little too late, my little Toed.

T9: Moonblast KOs Politoed.

The best part? Getting thoroughly trolled by the AI in this rollercoaster of a battle happened three matches before the streak ended.

Nadia & Dalvin - (Nadia: :gengar: Gengar-3, :milotic: Milotic-3 & Dalvin: :crobat: Crobat-2, :pinsir: Pinsir-3)

Dropping Psychic for Ice Beam made little difference with the majority of Slowking's matchups, but there were bound to be a few that would become worse as a result. Dalvin's Crobat-2 is one such example. It loses 44% of its total HP to recoil by OHKOing Hariyama, but only takes 50-60% in return from Slowking's Ice Beam. Normally, Hariyama's first-turn gameplan would feature clicking Knock Off on Gengar-3, in case Crobat goes for anything other than the guaranteed Brave Bat KO. This would be the case if Slowking was running Psychic, but that is no longer an option. As a reminder, both of the leads are immune to Fake Out's flinch thanks to Gengar's typing and Crobat's ability, Inner Focus. Since Hariyama is likely to perish regardless of its action, Fake Out can be used to deal chip damage to Crobat in order to secure an Ice Beam KO on the second turn. This shaky-sounding plan is made slightly safer by two factors: firstly, Crobat-2 rarely passes on the guaranteed kill it has on Hariyama. Secondly, its partner, Gengar-3, is incapable of one-shotting Slowking, and likes using Hypnosis as much as Shadow Ball. In short, using Fake Out instead of Knock Off makes the battle safer most of the time, i.e. when Crobat goes for Brave Bat on Hariyama. Conversely, if Crobat and Gengar decide to double target Slowking instead, not using Knock Off on Gengar turns an already terrible start into a nigh automatic loss.

T1: Trick Room, Fake Out Crobat. Brave Bat & Shadow Ball KO Slowking, denying TR. Send Clefable.

It is what it is. A victory is theoretically possible even with this opener, but it requires an absurd amount of luck, and plenty of throws from the AI. With Trick Room denied, there are no good plays available - only horrible, and slightly less awful ones remain. Attempting to save Hariyama for a second Fake Out eats too much momentum, and neither of the foes are susceptible to flinches anyway. Brave Bat destroys both Fighting-types, so Crobat must be dealt with first. Clefable's Flamethrower can KO Crobat with an above-average roll, but only if Crobat's recoil damage comes from KOing Hariyama, who has significantly higher HP than Machamp. As things stand, it's best to leave Hariyama in to die, and hope that Gengar's Hypnosis misses, or that it uses Shadow Ball.

T2: Flamethrower & Knock Off Crobat. Brave Bat KOs Hari, but Gengar's Hypnosis whiffs Clefable. Flamethrower KOs Crobat. Send Machamp, AI sends Pinsir.

Not the worst start...? It's too early to celebrate, though. Gengar can now get a free Hypnosis on No Guard Machamp. Meanwhile, Pinsir's Superpower deals an uncomfortable amount of damage to Machamp, and its Flail wrecks Clefable once low on HP. There's only one way of winning, and it relies on Knock Off killing Gengar somehow. Clefable's Flamethrower has 2/16 odds of OHKOing Pinsir (burn chance not included). It's yolo time.

T3: Flamethrower Pinsir, Knock Off Gengar. Pinsir Endures, no burn. Gengar's Hypnosis sends Machamp to sleep before Knock Off can be used.

Now it's truly over. Pinsir has access to boosted Flails, and unless Machamp wakes up quickly, nothing can stop Gengar from sipping on its dreams.

T4: Flamethrower Pinsir, Knock Off Gengar. Flail hits Clefable for 63%. Gengar uses Dream Eater on Machamp, who continues sleeping. Flamethrower KOs Pinsir - only Gengar's side remains.

Moonblast and Flamethrower are both 3HKOs on Gengar, so might as well fish for a -SpA drop. Perhaps there's a world in which Gengar KOs Clef first, and Machamp wakes up and returns the favour...?

T5: Moonblast, Knock Off. Dream Eater KOs the sleeping Machamp, and Cursed Body disables Moonblast.

If such a timeline existed, it certainly wasn't this one. Say goodbye, Clefable.

T6: Shadow Ball KOs Clefable.

Nadia & Dalvin claim yet another victim. With this, the final record for team Slowking is 585 wins.


Slowking's little adventure in BDSP reached its end at a good time, with the new games right around the corner. All in all, it was a great run. See you all in Scarlet & Violet!
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επέκεινα της ουσίας
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Leaderboard update, just in time before SV!

There is also an exciting announcement: thanks to SilverstarStream, the battle facilities calculator now has a mass calc function, to help out with optimizing EV spreads for BDSP Tower (and other formats)! Make sure to check it out at its new URL,!

ChubbyPuppy: You had until November 3rd to provide an update. The date is close enough if you'd like to post a follow-up shortly, otherwise it will be closed and further updates won't be accepted on the board.
GG Unit: You have until January 27th to provide an update.
Josh C.: You have until January 28th to provide an update.

CronoGreen : Congrats on your streak! Unfortunately a video proof is required for submission, as described in the first post. Let me know if you edit this into your post, and I'll update to add you.
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It's just a thing people do for special attackers to reduce Foul Play and Confusion damage, not strictly for facilities.

It's often unnecessary optimization since it rarely ever comes into play, but if you really want to fully optimize you should always do that.
Thank you!
Anybody still running this? Im trying to see how high I can get over the course of the next few months in Singles. Currently using a 252/252 squad with Latios/Gengar/Garchomp just to learn and open to any new ideas if anyone has any!


np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
hey man, good to see you posting here! watched both your vids and i love your thought process and production quality

i have a lot of experience with "Sirya's" team, with XS over Thief and a 252HP/252Atk/4Spe spread, and i'd recommend it because it does an excellent job if played well and can be flowcharted to victory over virtually every team

on that note, i'd really recommend using lum garchomp in the future if you use teams with it, it has such great synergy with Outrage and you don't have to worry about random burns and paralysis (you got Staticed once by Zapdos etc). plus, sub has anti synergy with Yache because you don't really want your naked chomp taking ice moves (most of which can freeze you), and if a sub is up the damage youre taking is moot (25%)

also i really want to see someone use Choice Band Entei in singles because it's so good on paper, and i'm partial to Unaware CM Clefable as well (checks setup dragons so well)

good luck THATSAplusONE , keep cranking these out, we love it
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Anybody still running this? Im trying to see how high I can get over the course of the next few months in Singles. Currently using a 252/252 squad with Latios/Gengar/Garchomp just to learn and open to any new ideas if anyone has any!
loved watching the BT stream THATSAplusONE, i wish more people would stream bt. it's fun and thought provoking, and as jump mentioned above the production quality was great.
Record of 504 wins in BDSP Battle Tower, Master Singles
Video of 7 battles reaching 504
this is really an impressive streak, and rotom seems like a great fit. glad to see a return of trick scarfing. i love watching the battle videos btw, i hope you put up more of them. one question for CeroRift - worker layne seems like he can be a bit tricky, is there a specific reason you subbed with garchomp against drapion in this vid?
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loved watching the BT stream THATSAplusONE, i wish more people would stream bt. it's fun and thought provoking, and as jump mentioned above the production quality was great.

this is really an impressive streak, and rotom seems like a great fit. glad to see a return of trick scarfing. i love watching the battle videos btw, i hope you put up more of them. one question for CeroRift - worker layne seems like he can be a bit tricky, is there a specific reason you subbed with garchomp against drapion in this vid?
Thanks, and yes, I'm hoping to make more once life settles down a bit in the next month. And so happy you asked about the Substitute as it's for a pretty weird reason! So Layne has a Weavile that knows both Ice Punch and Ice Shard. Ice Punch has a 10% chance of freezing. So the Subs are actually to make Garchomp's health go down!

Depending on the crit from Drapion, I might even use 2 Subs to get Garchomp in killing range for Ice Shard. Ideally, when Weavile comes out, it will opt for an Ice Shard to finish Garchomp instead of Ice Punch and thus eliminating the risk of freezing my Scizor coming in. Then I still have Rotom and Garchomp in the back for either Magmortar or Salamence too.
Thanks, and yes, I'm hoping to make more once life settles down a bit in the next month. And so happy you asked about the Substitute as it's for a pretty weird reason! So Layne has a Weavile that knows both Ice Punch and Ice Shard. Ice Punch has a 10% chance of freezing. So the Subs are actually to make Garchomp's health go down!

Depending on the crit from Drapion, I might even use 2 Subs to get Garchomp in killing range for Ice Shard. Ideally, when Weavile comes out, it will opt for an Ice Shard to finish Garchomp instead of Ice Punch and thus eliminating the risk of freezing my Scizor coming in. Then I still have Rotom and Garchomp in the back for either Magmortar or Salamence too.
Thanks. Doesn't Weavile's Ice Shard kill there regardless (even without Sub)? I might want to keep Garchomp's health as high as possible in case it needs to take another hit from EQ Salamence or something. And yeah, as far as switching in Scizor and risking the freeze, why not switch to Rotom instead?
Thanks. Doesn't Weavile's Ice Shard kill there regardless (even without Sub)? I might want to keep Garchomp's health as high as possible in case it needs to take another hit from EQ Salamence or something. And yeah, as far as switching in Scizor and risking the freeze, why not switch to Rotom instead?
So Ice Shard will actually do 72%-87% of Garchomp's health. Drapion will usually use either Night Slash or Cross Poison where both will not get Garchomp into for sure killing range unless it's a critical hit Night Slash. Even then, from my experience, it seems the trainer is programmed to "finish" you, and I don't think they know your exact EVs. Basically, Layne seems to use Ice Punch unless Garchomp's health is lower.

As for Rotom, if Rotom freezes, you rely on Scizor to finish Weavile (since Rotom is as good as finished generally in this case), and then Salamence can potentially finish Scizor leaving you with the slower Garchomp against Scarf Salamence (the other Layne with Magmortar would be okay in this scenario).

If you really wanted to try something different, you could Swords Dance against Weavile to set up against Salamence, but if Weavile gets a crit Night Slash on Scizor, you probably won't survive Salamence since a SD Bullet Punch is still not enough to 1-shot Salamence.
First, congratulations to Q8altaria for winning the race to 200 in doubles! The title remains up for grabs in singles, though I suspect some are getting close!

Second, the leaderboard has now been added to the thread!
I also added the list of rules we'll be utilizing for leaderboard submissions. I already added every streak that qualified so far in the thread (if I missed anything, let me know!), but please note that from this point onward, a screenshot of your version number will also be required.
I also kept and updated the list of sample teams, since the leaderboard is still nearly empty and a lot of people are looking for teams/sets to try.

Third, the main spreadsheet has been updated a few times since it was first posted, so if you made a copy early on, you may want to update it. Please note we just learned last night that it also appears every Pokémon is PP maxed; a 0-3 number associated with every set in the data dump seemed like it may be the number of PP Ups used, but it led to the odd conclusion that boss trainers were the ones without maxed out PP. The new theory is that this number is the Pokémon's gender, with 3 being random; this would mean boss trainers would be the ones with set genders on their Pokémon, unlike other trainers.
The calculator has also been updated, a few missing moves were added, Crush Grip and Wring Out were fixed, as well as a bug that showed a few sets in their mega forme mistakingly by default.

Fourth, I have a submission of my own to make...!

View attachment 390848

My first streak detailed here died at 58; I played without the lookup and immediately assumed a lead Garchomp was sashed (it wasn't), tried to play around it, found out later a backline Tyranitar was sashed instead, and that threw off my entire battle plan. I took this as an occasion to grind for Raikou, though my loss wasn't Jolteon's fault at all, Raikou's additional bulk is undeniably better... point in case, 203.


Modest | Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Brine / Hurricane / Tailwind / Protect

I'm now sold on Brine over Scald , if only for that one Snorlax Barry has, where Scald + Hurricane puts Snorlax in Brine range and nothing else.


Modest | Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Scald / Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam / Protect

Still wishing Ice Beam could be Hurricane...


Timid | Inner Focus
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Thunder / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Extrasensory

I had already switched to Thunderbolt on Jolteon on the previous team, and used it a lot, it's so much safer to have in weather wars of when rain expires. The only reason the last 2 moves weren't Volt Switch / Scald is because I had no more of those TMs and couldn't find an underground vendor anytime I checked. I have now decided Shadow Ball is worth keeping though, if only for Latias, which is one of the biggest threats to the team. The Calm Mind set turns out to be unpredictable and really difficult to play around, and Shadow Ball is key there. Extrasensory is useful at times but I'll switch it to Volt Switch as soon as I get the chance. Scald, as much sense as it seems to make on a rain team, really doesn't feel necessary with Kingdra and Pelipper on the team; they've got those targets handled.


Adamant | Technician
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 172 Spe

Bullet Punch / X-Scissor / Swords Dance / Protect

No changes to Scizor, the speed has come into play against Suicune and Rotom in several battles, so it's a no-brainer to me, but I would consider cutting attack and adding bulk, I'm not convinced 252+ is necessary.

The team still feels a bit volatile, but Scizor really holds it together in times of need. Of course, the pre-set teams allowing to plan everything at the very start of the battle is really what's helping a more volatile team be viable. There's no doubt to me now that this + the 2v1 mechanic makes battles a lot easier if you're willing to take the time to play them properly. The counterweight of more hax items and better sets overall does matter though, as I'm semi-regularly forced to handle battles assuming the worst case scenario won't happen - which only means it eventually will, and I'll lose.

For its volatility, what rain offers is perfectly accurate Thunders and Hurricanes to work my way around evasion, and Thunder in particular comes into play a lot. This is basically the role No Guard is playing on those Trick Room teams that are also on the board, and I think it's an unfortunately necessary role for any team with hopes of a high streak in this Tower (by high, I mean 1000+). Unlike previous facilities, evasion also usually comes alongside heavy offensive pressure, and arent as passive as Tree Blissey4 or Cresselia2.

The biggest threats to the team, off the top of my head:
- Basically any Gastrodon or Cradily lead. They're all Storm Drain, require many hits to KO, and must be put out of the way first. There's one that leads alongside Heatran I'm pretty sure, and because that Heatran has Dragon Pulse and Ancient Power, it can practically sweep me while I keep targeting the partner. I think I ended up having to KOing it with Thunder every time.
- Latias-2 lead. Whether it goes for CM or Dragon Pulse is a coinflip; it OHKOs Kingdra, and Kingdra doesn't OHKO back. I usually have to sac Kingdra to it and rely on Raikou + Scizor (something prevents Scizor from helping out right away, I think it's Sunny Day Houndoom).
- The Bronzong/Abomasnow lead with Rotom-W and either Rhyperior or Torkoal in the back. My play against it is to switch to Scizor + Scald Bronzong turn 1 to get the damage I need to deny a 2nd TR. Abomasnow sometimes protects, sometimes Shadow Balls, and sometimes Blizzards. Scizor getting frozen on the switch is worst case scenario (happened once). On the next turn I double protect to stall out a turn of TR, then switch Kingdra into Pelipper to reset the weather. I used to go for SD with Scizor, but now I just BP Abomasnow for the 2HKO, because Bronzong spams Rock Slide and flinches won't stop coming. What happens next depends on the flinches, but I ensure to preserve Pelipper in case the last is Torkoal, and make sure that I deny the 2nd TR.
- Ludicolo-3, I don't remember what it shows alongside, but I remember it's been an absolute pain every time.

I recorded every set from battle 105 onward and put them on YouTube, just for archival purposes. I think the most interesting one to watch is probably 176-182, it features a lot of more challenging battles, starting off with the very one I lost my 1st streak to. Sadly, many of these sets (134-182) have bugged out audio because of my Switch's audio issue, so I strongly suggest muting them and putting music of your own if you're gonna watch any!

(opening this link on YouTube should show the entire playlist)


I'll keep this streak going as long as I can, but I have no plan on building any further teams until Home compatibility is added. I have no breeding tools right now, so getting any Pokémon I need is a huge chore, and Home will open up many new possibilities for movesets, so I'd rather wait until then.

Good luck to everyone!
This Battle Tower trainer (Anissa) did not have trouble getting Hurricane on her Kingdra :P
Hi I just beat level 10 masters using rain team(Politoed+ Ludicolo) plus Garchomp and Metagross. Lost like 3 times since level 2, all by surprise high atks.

Is rain team overall the best choice? or trick room team.

Also I found that if you don't stop during the 7 fight streak and lose, you will face exactly the same 7 teams when you restart. Is that confirmed?

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