Balanced Hackmons Viability Ranking

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I did say it was outclassed in my post. Mega Diancie is outclassed as an ate user but that doesn't stop it from being A because it has unique qualities that set it apart from Ray/MMX. Thundy has enough to set it apart from other oblivion wing users in that while it is outclassed it is still viable and I think C is fair enough.
Js, Mega Diancie is NOT outclassed as an -ate user. Many would argue that it is, in fact, on par with or even stronger than Rayquaza-Mega as an -atespeeder. Its secondary typing is nice for taking Aerilated attacks, and Fairy is often superior to Flying as a primary attacking type, as it deals with the Dragon-types of the tier better.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic

I think this thing should be ranked. Here is why: for starters it has a well above average 145 base SpA, it has enough speed to run modest and still out speed base 150 after one QD with a few Evs left over to stick somewhere else, Stab Oblivion Wing is a beautiful thing, it has a nice offensive typing that is immune to ground and resists flying/fighting/steel/grass, and it can sweep with just QD/OW alone so it has two extra move slots for whatever. Its a cool mon and can clean easily once atespeed, imposter chansey, and shedinja are removed. I think C would be a good place since it Is outclassed, but not so much that it isn't viable.
I don't think this is even good enough to be in D rank...
All of its stats are mediocre. Its SpA and Spe stats are barely usable by BH standards. The BH standard for "fast" in my opinion starts at 130 (mm2y / gengar). Its typing gives it no relevant benefits. Its defensive stats are just way too low. It's still KO'd by Rayquaza's Fake + Speed. "once atespeed, imposter chansey, and shedinja are removed" requires a huge amount of support already, and those aren't the only things that can counter thundy.
I did say it was outclassed in my post. Mega Diancie is outclassed as an ate user but that doesn't stop it from being A because it has unique qualities that set it apart from Ray/MMX. Thundy has enough to set it apart from other oblivion wing users in that while it is outclassed it is still viable and I think C is fair enough.
Mega Diancie is nowhere near outclassed. It has a far better defensive typing than Mega Rayquaza (in most cases anyways), most important being that it is not weak to SR. Pixilate also plays significantly differently than Aerilate, in that it is not resisted by rock, and it is super effective against the many dragon types in the tier.
 
The problem with Thundy-T is, well, look at the stats...

79/105/70/145/80/101

There's three other prominent Electric-types Thundy has to compete with (and tons of fliers, of which Thundy only has a niche over by virtue of its Electric typing), which are...

Zekrom: 100/150/120/120/100/90 - Slower, but much bulkier and hits almost as hard specially and way harder physically.
Manectric-Mega: 70/75/80/135/80/135 - Much, much faster and has equivalent bulk and almost the same power specially. Weaker physically, but you'd be using Zekrom anyway.
Ampharos-Mega: 90/95/105/165/110/45 - Hits MUCH harder and is also noticeably bulkier. Also much slower, but that lets it run Trick Room or slow Regenvest sets pretty well.

IMO, all three of these are superior choices to Thundy from a perspective of Electric-typing. Ground-weakness doesn't really matter because Thousand Arrows would force you to have a Ground-check teammate regardless if you flew or not. Over them, Thundy's only obvious advantage is its Flying-typing. Since its only niche over other Pokemon it simply typing when it comes to either Electric or Flying, it's basically outclassed except on very specific sets that leverages its typing, like Serene Grace with Discharge and Air Slash or some other thing. (And then there's Protean...)

Right now, Zekrom is C-ranked and Manectric and Ampharos don't even make D. So, Thundy most definitely should not make D.
 
Thundy-T used to have a decent niche set with drizzle + dual stab for rain team setup before gen 6, unfortunantly in the current meta it just doesn't have the oomph to pull it off anymore and rain isn't as good as it was.
So I'm gonna have to agree with others that it really doesn't have what it takes to be even D rank.
 
Not to mention, last Gen, aside from Zekrom, its only competition were Jolteon and Raikou* who were, well, decent enough, but rather niche. Especially since Prankodon was a big thing, so Thundy's Flying typing gave it a huge advantage over even Zekrom.


Anyway, I guess while I'm here, what about Manectric for D? It has enough speed to naturally outrun Xtwo and, with Timid, also outpaces Modest Ytwo and Adamant Megadactyl and can threaten crippling damage on either of them. While 135 offenses are a little low, and special Electric is a little lacking in move options, it's strong enough to threaten most other offensive Pokemon and its Sheer Force sets still pack quite a punch and it can always escape with a STAB Volt Switch. Plus it gets very solid coverage in Ice and checking Imposters isn't difficult, even if running something like Sheer Force with perfect coverage, because the Imposter won't have nearly the same oomph to its attacks. There's also the niche Paralysis immunity, a status that utterly cripples pretty much every other fast and frail sweeper. It also uses Refrigerate Boomburst quite well, although this is no longer so relevant ever since -ate clause came into place outside of pure surprise factor.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Registeel: 152-179 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Enough to force Regi to Recover stall, and I'm willing to bet Registeel doesn't always run that spread. Of course, Manectric will struggle with Giratina and Chansey, so not going to bother calcing those too.

Of course, no higher than D since it's vulnerable to -ate Fakespeed, even Aerilate because of low bulk, Protean is a thing, and it's power is just on the low end for sweeping without set-up. And I guess it'd really such of Electrify + Lighting Rod Mega-Gengar ever saw a resurgence.


*Who I guess might still have some use in being "Manectric, but slight increase in bulk in exchange for speed and power." But even then, the drops in power and speed probably still make it not worth using, as much as I obviously hate to say if not evidenced by my avatar.
 
Requesting Swampert-Mega as B-Rank.

Reason: It's shockingly underrated. Solid stats all around, unique typing, very abusable movesets, and overall utility makes it an extraordinary utility Pokemon.

Starting with its stats, 100/150/110/95/110/70 is very good in a metagame like this, and while admitfully less than Regigigas and nowhere near as tankish as say Giratina, Lugia, Registeel, Arceus, or Cresselia, its typing makes up for the lost stats. No one seems to know how much of a blessing Water/Ground is in a metagame focused on perfect coverage. It provides almost no weaknesses (x4 Grass, which is rare in BH), resistances that allow it to pivot very well with common threats, and neutral resistance to moves that all of whom I mentioned would die for. It also allows STAB to Water Shuriken, Crabhammer, Precipice Blades, and the coveted Thousand Arrows. In fact, its 150 Attack Stat makes it tie Primal-Kyogre as the second highest attack stat of any Water type and tie for third place with Groudon for Ground types.

What can Swampert-Mega do? Its stats and STABs allow it to run extremely reliable sets that may compete with other Pokemon, but can find a place over them with the sheer utility and reliability that they possess. Here are a few:


Mud Fort
Swampert-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 248 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- King's Shield
- Recover
- Knock Off/Leech Seed/Water Shuriken

Swampert-Mega's solid defensive stats and typing make it a perfect contender for a wall. Thousand Arrows is Swampert-Mega's go-to STAB of choice, being able to hit anything for a substantial amount of damage, investment or not. King's Shield kills several birds with one stone; it blocks an incoming attack, stalls a turn, weakens a physical attacker coming in, and combos extremely well with Magic Bounce. Recover allows Swampert-Mega to keep healthy at almost all times, making it incredibly difficult to take down in one go. The last slot is used for utility. Knock Off forcefully removes the opponent's item while providing Swampert-Mega with some more muscle. Leech Seed is an evil move for this set that slowly withers the opponent away while providing additional healing and a way to bypass Shedinja. Finally, Water Shuriken is a perfectly usable option to pick off weakened foes before they can respond. If none of the three moves mentioned interest you, there's an entire library to choose from, ranging from Stealth Rock to Defog, Aromatherapy, Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, and Perish Song! The EVs bolster Swampert-Mega's bulk as much as possible, but squeezes 12 Speed EVs to creep past uninvested Tyranitar-Mega to ensure you hit it first.

FridgeFish
Swampert-Mega @ Leftovers/Icicle Plate/Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows
- Shell Smash/King's Shield/Recover

FridgeFish is a brutal anti-meta set. While it looks like a standard Refridgerate set that any Pokemon can tutilize, Swampert-Mega is a special case. STAB Thousand Arrows not only gives it a high-powered STAB and not only becomes practically unresisted, but it also lays waste to any Steel type that's brave enough to try to wall this set with an easy 2HKO at least. Fake Out and Extreme Speed along with Refridgerate brings high-powered priority that hits everything else that stands in its way that, while it may not have STAB like Kyurem-B, deals great damage coming from a staggering 438 Attack. The last attack is based on preference seeing that it really doesn't need another attacking move. Shell Smash is unfairly easy to set up due to its great bulk and typing and guarantees a win condition almost every time. King's Shield allows you to soften the blows of physical attackers and make other -ate users unable to revenge kill it. Finally, Recover allows such a strong attacker to remain as durable as possible. The item it hold also depends on preference. Leftovers gives Swampert-Mega consistent healing at the cost of some power, but Icicle Plate increases the strength of Fake Out and Extreme Speed while Life Orb gives a considerable power boost at the cost of recoil every hit. The EVs make Swampert-Mega hit as hard as humanly possible while allowing it to utilize its superb bulk to its advantage. The Speed EVs allow Swampert-Mega to outpace Mewtwo-Mega-Y after a Shell Smash so it can guarantee a kill with Thousand Arrows.


I'll gladly admit that Swampert-Mega won't change the metagame and that it's not a high-tier threat that has to be accounted for whenever you play BH, but it still definitely deserves a spot in the viability charts and is perfectly usable enough to be in mid-high range. Maybe it's not as good as I'm making it or maybe it's better, but I think it should at the very least be in the B-range.
 
Requesting Swampert-Mega as B-Rank.

Reason: It's shockingly underrated. Solid stats all around, unique typing, very abusable movesets, and overall utility makes it an extraordinary utility Pokemon.

Starting with its stats, 100/150/110/95/110/70 is very good in a metagame like this, and while admitfully less than Regigigas and nowhere near as tankish as say Giratina, Lugia, Registeel, Arceus, or Cresselia, its typing makes up for the lost stats. No one seems to know how much of a blessing Water/Ground is in a metagame focused on perfect coverage. It provides almost no weaknesses (x4 Grass, which is rare in BH), resistances that allow it to pivot very well with common threats, and neutral resistance to moves that all of whom I mentioned would die for. It also allows STAB to Water Shuriken, Crabhammer, Precipice Blades, and the coveted Thousand Arrows. In fact, its 150 Attack Stat makes it tie Primal-Kyogre as the second highest attack stat of any Water type and tie for third place with Groudon for Ground types.

What can Swampert-Mega do? Its stats and STABs allow it to run extremely reliable sets that may compete with other Pokemon, but can find a place over them with the sheer utility and reliability that they possess. Here are a few:


Mud Fort
Swampert-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 248 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- King's Shield
- Recover
- Knock Off/Leech Seed/Water Shuriken

Swampert-Mega's solid defensive stats and typing make it a perfect contender for a wall. Thousand Arrows is Swampert-Mega's go-to STAB of choice, being able to hit anything for a substantial amount of damage, investment or not. King's Shield kills several birds with one stone; it blocks an incoming attack, stalls a turn, weakens a physical attacker coming in, and combos extremely well with Magic Bounce. Recover allows Swampert-Mega to keep healthy at almost all times, making it incredibly difficult to take down in one go. The last slot is used for utility. Knock Off forcefully removes the opponent's item while providing Swampert-Mega with some more muscle. Leech Seed is an evil move for this set that slowly withers the opponent away while providing additional healing and a way to bypass Shedinja. Finally, Water Shuriken is a perfectly usable option to pick off weakened foes before they can respond. If none of the three moves mentioned interest you, there's an entire library to choose from, ranging from Stealth Rock to Defog, Aromatherapy, Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, and Perish Song! The EVs bolster Swampert-Mega's bulk as much as possible, but squeezes 12 Speed EVs to creep past uninvested Tyranitar-Mega to ensure you hit it first.

FridgeFish
Swampert-Mega @ Leftovers/Icicle Plate/Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows
- Shell Smash/King's Shield/Recover

FridgeFish is a brutal anti-meta set. While it looks like a standard Refridgerate set that any Pokemon can tutilize, Swampert-Mega is a special case. STAB Thousand Arrows not only gives it a high-powered STAB and not only becomes practically unresisted, but it also lays waste to any Steel type that's brave enough to try to wall this set with an easy 2HKO at least. Fake Out and Extreme Speed along with Refridgerate brings high-powered priority that hits everything else that stands in its way that, while it may not have STAB like Kyurem-B, deals great damage coming from a staggering 438 Attack. The last attack is based on preference seeing that it really doesn't need another attacking move. Shell Smash is unfairly easy to set up due to its great bulk and typing and guarantees a win condition almost every time. King's Shield allows you to soften the blows of physical attackers and make other -ate users unable to revenge kill it. Finally, Recover allows such a strong attacker to remain as durable as possible. The item it hold also depends on preference. Leftovers gives Swampert-Mega consistent healing at the cost of some power, but Icicle Plate increases the strength of Fake Out and Extreme Speed while Life Orb gives a considerable power boost at the cost of recoil every hit. The EVs make Swampert-Mega hit as hard as humanly possible while allowing it to utilize its superb bulk to its advantage. The Speed EVs allow Swampert-Mega to outpace Mewtwo-Mega-Y after a Shell Smash so it can guarantee a kill with Thousand Arrows.


I'll gladly admit that Swampert-Mega won't change the metagame and that it's not a high-tier threat that has to be accounted for whenever you play BH, but it still definitely deserves a spot in the viability charts and is perfectly usable enough to be in mid-high range. Maybe it's not as good as I'm making it or maybe it's better, but I think it should at the very least be in the B-range.
Swampert isn't B rank worthy. It seems like a pretty mediocre wall, although it does have a great defensive typing. But regardless, here are some calcs:

252 SpA Spooky Plate Mega Gengar Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 162-192 (40 - 47.5%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This might seem like a really good sign for Mega Swampert, as technically it can switch into Mega Gengar, but you must maintain at least 95% health to be able to safely switch in without a chance of getting koed. That is far from ideal.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 210-247 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Its always hard to judge what walls a Protean Set, but Mega Swampert doesn't seem to reliably wall this guy either.

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

The shell smash set does not seem to be imposterproof, since it can probably shell smash over most walls. So what exactly does Swampert do? C rank at highest, D rank imo for now unless you have more to back up your claims.
 
Swampert isn't B rank worthy. It seems like a pretty mediocre wall, although it does have a great defensive typing. But regardless, here are some calcs:

252 SpA Spooky Plate Mega Gengar Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 162-192 (40 - 47.5%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This might seem like a really good sign for Mega Swampert, as technically it can switch into Mega Gengar, but you must maintain at least 95% health to be able to safely switch in without a chance of getting koed. That is far from ideal.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 210-247 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Its always hard to judge what walls a Protean Set, but Mega Swampert doesn't seem to reliably wall this guy either.

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

The shell smash set does not seem to be imposterproof, since it can probably shell smash over most walls. So what exactly does Swampert do? C rank at highest, D rank imo for now unless you have more to back up your claims.
Okay, I may have over-exaggerated a bit on how usable it is, but I'd argue it's more of a "decent" wall than a "mediocre" one. Also, to be perfectly fair, very few things are imposter-proof in the first place.

As for the calcs, you are right, except you forgot Leftovers and King's Shield. Here's what the calcs and situation turns out to be factoring them in:

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Never a 2HKO factoring in King's Shield. Swampert-Mega 2HKOs with Thousand Arrows.


252 SpA Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 210-247 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not always a 2HKO unless you add SR, and King's Shield drops the chance to 57%. If anything, you flip a coin on this one.


252 SpA Spooky Plate Mega Gengar Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 162-192 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Can't kill it even if it tries unless it has a boost. Thousand Arrows OHKOs.


252 SpA Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Okay, so Swampert-Mega can't switch into Boomburst. Can it switch in on Extreme Speed?

4 Atk Pixilate Mega Diancie Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

The combination of ESpeed, Boomburst, and Leftovers totals to approximately 90.5 - 107.7%, almost never killing Swampert-Mega at full health after King's Shield. Thousand Arrows is an OHKO every time.


I can buy MegaSwamp being at C or C+, but I fail to see how this is D-Rank considering it has many attributes that make it stand out in the crowd.
 
I dunno about Swampert-Mega being useless. It has very similar stats to Megados (very slightly less speed and power for very slight increase in bulk, probably negligible in most cases on either end) with the main difference being a secondary typing. And with Primaldon out of the way, there's room for other good Ground-types. I don't think the sets Nido posted are the most ideal, as, since it has similar stats, it'd likely do the same thing Gyra does instead. Except with a few changes in moves to account for different STABS. The Shift Gear / Sacred Fire Poison Heal set might be a good place to start with Swampert.
 
Okay, I may have over-exaggerated a bit on how usable it is, but I'd argue it's more of a "decent" wall than a "mediocre" one. Also, to be perfectly fair, very few things are imposter-proof in the first place.

As for the calcs, you are right, except you forgot Leftovers and King's Shield. Here's what the calcs and situation turns out to be factoring them in:

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Never a 2HKO factoring in King's Shield. Swampert-Mega 2HKOs with Thousand Arrows.


252 SpA Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 210-247 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not always a 2HKO unless you add SR, and King's Shield drops the chance to 57%. If anything, you flip a coin on this one.


252 SpA Spooky Plate Mega Gengar Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 162-192 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Can't kill it even if it tries unless it has a boost. Thousand Arrows OHKOs.


252 SpA Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Swampert: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Okay, so Swampert-Mega can't switch into Boomburst. Can it switch in on Extreme Speed?

4 Atk Pixilate Mega Diancie Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

The combination of ESpeed, Boomburst, and Leftovers totals to approximately 90.5 - 107.7%, almost never killing Swampert-Mega at full health after King's Shield. Thousand Arrows is an OHKO every time.


I can buy MegaSwamp being at C or C+, but I fail to see how this is D-Rank considering it has many attributes that make it stand out in the crowd.
So you have to run lefties and KS to make Swampet usable? So what happens if you get hit by Knock Off? And you didn't account for an item on Diancie. Not to mention even with Lefies, you need to keep Mega Swampert at around 83% HP in order to reliably switch in. So i don't think Sp.def is the best set.

I dunno about Swampert-Mega being useless. It has very similar stats to Megados (very slightly less speed and power for very slight increase in bulk, probably negligible in most cases on either end) with the main difference being a secondary typing. And with Primaldon out of the way, there's room for other good Ground-types. I don't think the sets Nido posted are the most ideal, as, since it has similar stats, it'd likely do the same thing Gyra does instead. Except with a few changes in moves to account for different STABS. The Shift Gear / Sacred Fire Poison Heal set might be a good place to start with Swampert.
I agree defensive sets are probably much better, or Physical Shift Gear. Physical Defensive sets wall things like Tyranitar (a big deal), Mega Mewtwo X, Groudon, and other Physical PH sets. It still faces competition from Groudon so a C rank seems proper.
 
So you have to run lefties and KS to make Swampet usable? So what happens if you get hit by Knock Off? And you didn't account for an item on Diancie. Not to mention even with Lefies, you need to keep Mega Swampert at around 83% HP in order to reliably switch in. So i don't think Sp.def is the best set.



I agree defensive sets are probably much better, or Physical Shift Gear. Physical Defensive sets wall things like Tyranitar (a big deal), Mega Mewtwo X, Groudon, and other Physical PH sets. It still faces competition from Groudon so a C rank seems proper.
I'm also voting for C rank, as far from sets I've seen 3 different types of Mega Swampert sets: Sap Sipper, Unaware and noob sets.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Haven't actually used Swampert, but on paper it seems very underrated now that Primaldon is gone. Let's compare it to regular Groudon:

100/150/140/100/90/90 vs
100/150/110/90/110/70

Groudon has significantly higher defense, while Swampert has higher special defense. Swampert's speed is lower, but that isn't much of a concern on defensive sets, and offensive sets are running shift gear anyways. The main difference is in their typing. In exchange for a 4x weakness to grass, Swampert is neutral to ice and water, while gaining a resistance to steel and fire. Grass is rarely used outside of some protean sets running seed flare, and I'm pretty sure that would KO Groudon too. Overall it seems Swampert is on par if not superior to regular Groudon, with the better defensive typing and secondary STAB. The other thing to consider is that Groudon can still run Red Orb to turn into Primal Groudon, allowing it to spam powerful V-Creates. This is the only thing giving it a significant edge over Swampert. On any other set like Poison Heal I think the choice between the two is arguable.

Given that Groudon is in B right now, I'd say Swampert deserves C+ at least, if not B-.
 
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Gyarados-M is a good comparison too for Swampert's primary typing. Less fancy because it's late and I have no idea why I'm still up...

Gyra: 95/155/109/70/130/81 vs Swamp: 100/150/110/90/110/70

They're like... almost the exact same Pokemon on the physical side with a few special stats, speed, and secondary typing being the only real difference. And with Gyra-M being B-ranked, Swampert, on paper, does seem like a contender for B as well. But... having not used it and being fairy inactive right now, I'm not going to argue farther since practical application is what's important.
 

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
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Gyara is still better at the job of being a bulky supporter, however, because its STAB Knock Off is so crippling. It makes Gyara incredibly risky to switch into early game, and even lets it beat Chansey one on one. Dark-type is generally way more applicable offensively, letting Mega Gyara check Ghost-types such as Fur Coat Giratina and Psychic-types 1 v 1.


I think the main benefit that Mega Swampert has over Mega Gyara is its Ground-type's resistances; unlike Gyara, it is not weak to Fairy, and it is immune to Electric (making it a decent MMX check). However, these resistances are fairly unapplicable; 252 SpA Pixie Plate Mega Diancie still OHKOs 252 HP with Boomburst, so the benefits dont really come into play unless you're boosted. The fact that it can hit Steel-types hard is fairly unimpactful as well, as, with Poison Heal, both Pokemon dont have much to fear against most Steel-types anyway. Mega Swampert's Precipice Blades / Thousand Arrows is also quite a lot easier for Fur Coaters to wall. I guess Mega Swamp could run Knock Off as well, but without STAB it's hilariously weak.


I feel like the proper placement for Mega Swampert, right now, should be B-, especially since there aren't any (or no one has brought up any) examples of it being significantly useful in application.
 
Gyara has the advantage of stab knock off which is extremely powerful in the meta that will always give it the advantage.
With primals gone tho, mega swampert has the stab thousands and is generally very underated
So honestly with the untapped potential, I have to kinda agree with the motion that it could easily be C, C+, or even B-

I would probably go with C or C+ for starters really, if it begins to prod in the meta more, moving it up to B- could be in order
 
Nominating Ho-Oh to at least B

I feel like Ho-Oh is a criminally underused and underestimated pokemon in the current BH metagame. Ho-Oh May not seem like a Great Wall with a crippling 4x weakness to SR, but this can be fixed by giving it defog/mbounce support or Magic Guard. The set I'm going to give an example here is the Magic Guard set, which I feel is a great balanced offensive threat and yet a food wall to some of the most threatening pokemon in the meta.

Here is a sample set of a Magic Guard Ho-Oh set



Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Soft-Boiled
- Defog / Precipice Blades / High Jump Kick / Spore

Of course the EVs and nature could be tweaked to a more defensive, specially defensive, or all out attacker but this spread gives it a lot of attack with a lot of walling potential. This is also a super old set btw. The set iself is pretty self-explanatory. Dual stab for offensive presence, life orb because magic guard stops recoil, recovery for long lasting-ness, and the last slot could be anything. Defog is nice to get rid of hazards, precipice blades is to OHKO diancie, HJK is to blow TTars to another dimension, and spore to cripple switchins.

Now this set has a few functions. The first one and the main reason I use it is to wall MOST pixilate diancie variants. Of course some people use diamond storm *cough* apa *cough cough*.
Here are some calcs to show how it can wall diancie. Keep in mind this is more of an offensive spread and should probably tweaked if you want this to be the only pixi check.

252 SpA Life Orb Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 155-182 (37.3 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mega Diancie Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 146-172 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

In both scenarios ho-oh can recover stall or go for spore / precipice blades to stop the diancie.

This set can also serve as a soft check to NON-ADAPTABILITY mega gengar.

252 SpA Spooky Plate Mega Gengar Judgment vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 159-187 (38.3 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Again, Ho-Oh can recover stall or go for the kill. It also lives it at +2. Remember this is a soft check, not a hard check to MGar, as it can easily gets 2HKO by adapt variants. You can run PH tar to check adapt MGar and check yourself while giving yourself a free setup opportunity too if you don't have HJK or precipice.

And finally, it can wall MOST variants of Protean MM2Y. Again some good people decided it would be good to run tbolt/power gem in their MM2Y. Sigh I hate these people. The standard Fairy/Ground/Grass coverage will bounce off its hard body.

252 SpA Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 69-82 (16.6 - 19.7%) -- possible 6HKO

And can soft check Boomburst variants.

252 SpA Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 205-243 (49.3 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

Now let's move on to it's offensive presence.

Ho-Oh can offer solid offensive presence with its powerful dual stab, benefitting from Magic Guard.

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 363-426 (102.8 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 328-386 (125.1 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-2 208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 247-292 (94.2 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 335-395 (139 -- 163.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Rayquaza: 270-320 (76.9 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock




208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Kyogre: 211-250 (52.3 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 255-302 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 231-274 (57.1 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 231-274 (52 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 173-204 (34.3 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 203-239 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Chansey: 260-307 (40.4 - 47.8%) -- 57.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 165-196 (40.2 - 47.8%) -- 54.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock


208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 203-239 (44.6 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 291-346 (79.9 - 95%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

First of all I would like to apologise for not knowing how to hide these calcs sorry. Anyways, as you can see nothing really likes switching into this monster. Most Offensive mons are out righted OHKOd by its stabs some bulky mons are 2HKOd, and a lot are after rocks. Fat mons also are 2hkod after a bit of prior damage.


All in all Ho-Oh is a solid defensive mon that can offer a solid offensive presence, or the other way around, on the metagame. It can hard check a couple of the most used set in the tier, and soft check (aka not getting 2HKOd ever) by a lot of others. This particular set also is not worn down by residuals and can't be burned so that's a bonus, and this is why I feel like Ho-Oh should move up to at least B.
 
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Wow this thread could really use a bumb.

I believe last time this thread was active, we had discussed dropping darm-zen off the rankings, due to it having no particular usage. As for Ho-Oh and Mega Swampert, they should both stay in C rank. Neither really makes in impact in the high ladder metagame. Ho-Oh is only reliable with one set. Yes Magic Guard can wall Mega Gengar, and Mega Mewtwo Y. But you have to run Magic Guard because you can never afford to take SR damage and switch in. Ultimately a niche Pokemon. Mega Swampert is decent because it walls Mega Tyranitar, but the lack of proven success should keep it a C rank.
I still believe Regirock and Xerneas deserve a drop. I've been told Xerneas is a good wall but i've seen no evidence of any such utility on the ladder. Yes it can run Magnet Pull sets to Imposter proof Dialga, but thats basically its only niche i've see of any real use. There are better Fairies in the tier for almost anything else it could run in Mega Audino and Diancie. It definitely deserves to be C- imo.
Regirock is supposed to be a dedicated wall to the best pokemon in the tier, but lets be honest, Ground and Fighting Coverage isn't that uncommon on Mega Ray. It would be one thing if Regirock handled Ground and Fighting coverage better then Registeel, but it doesn't. I think i've already proven Regirock is not an -ate wall, merely a Mega Ray and maybe even Tyranitar counter. The fact that it relys on an Ability (Sand Stream), or item (Assault Vest) limits its utility, so its generally a sub par choice to Registeel on most teams. It doesn't belong any place but C rank imo.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Wow this thread could really use a bumb.

I believe last time this thread was active, we had discussed dropping darm-zen off the rankings, due to it having no particular usage. As for Ho-Oh and Mega Swampert, they should both stay in C rank. Neither really makes in impact in the high ladder metagame. Ho-Oh is only reliable with one set. Yes Magic Guard can wall Mega Gengar, and Mega Mewtwo Y. But you have to run Magic Guard because you can never afford to take SR damage and switch in. Ultimately a niche Pokemon. Mega Swampert is decent because it walls Mega Tyranitar, but the lack of proven success should keep it a C rank.
I still believe Regirock and Xerneas deserve a drop. I've been told Xerneas is a good wall but i've seen no evidence of any such utility on the ladder. Yes it can run Magnet Pull sets to Imposter proof Dialga, but thats basically its only niche i've see of any real use. There are better Fairies in the tier for almost anything else it could run in Mega Audino and Diancie. It definitely deserves to be C- imo.
Regirock is supposed to be a dedicated wall to the best pokemon in the tier, but lets be honest, Ground and Fighting Coverage isn't that uncommon on Mega Ray. It would be one thing if Regirock handled Ground and Fighting coverage better then Registeel, but it doesn't. I think i've already proven Regirock is not an -ate wall, merely a Mega Ray and maybe even Tyranitar counter. The fact that it relys on an Ability (Sand Stream), or item (Assault Vest) limits its utility, so its generally a sub par choice to Registeel on most teams. It doesn't belong any place but C rank imo.
the reason people use regirock is this:
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regirock: 152-180 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Regirock Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza: 218-258 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
regenrock is perhaps one of the better regen users, due to the fact that its attack stat isnt a pitiful ~75 and it can actually threaten offensive pokemon with its stab. it also tanks earthquakes from max attack ray, which is kinda cool. sure, it might not be as specially bulky as registeel(lmao AV doesnt save you from life orb modest boombursts sadly) but its still a good offensive choice if regensteel scares you with its lacking of momentum.
 
Found a set that might boost Mega Gengar up lil' bit on the ranking, where it's basically The Switch Forcer Of Satan. Or if you're facing someone who doesn't think to switch the Frustrating Trapper Of Satan. So basically Perish Song Gengar but hackmon'd.

( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) (Gengar-Mega) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Entrainment
- Shadow Ball / Draining Kiss / Giga Drain / Scald
- Infestation
- Toxic

You Entrainment everything and then trap it by spamming Infestation and little else to keep the foe trapped. Toxic/Will-o-Wisp is in case the thing you are facing is Ghost type and needs to be statused to death. (squints at Giratina. WE ALL SEE YOUR BULKY ASS) however Toxic cannot hurt other Gengars.
Focus sash means you can Entrainment a foe even if it wins the Speed tie and either force a switch onto your hazards or trap them with Infestation. A faster Skill Link user, especially physical ones, can tear through your set before you can Entrainment it, however.
Shadow Ball is a pretty nice move with a 20% chance of lowering Special Defense and becomes a STAB move if your ability is Skill Swapped or Mummied away, but Draining Kiss and Giga Drain mean you can get your colossal HP back after being brought down to your Focus Sash. Scald can be used in conjunction with Toxic to allow both burns and poison but you lose both STAB and recovery.

This set is not without its flaws, see my mention of Skill Link, but if you run Toxic it is imposterproof as the foe will have Normalize and be unable to touch you with anything. Being brought down to the Sash also leaves you unable to switch out and then in if you don't have a Defogger/Spinner.
It works best if you have Stealth Rock up, especially if you are running Sticky Web to ensure Gengar wins as many speed ties as possible. Be wary of Contrary users such as V-Create Mega Mewtwo X, though.

/endrant. Now go and frustrate people in Hackmons.
 
the reason people use regirock is this:
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regirock: 152-180 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Regirock Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza: 218-258 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
regenrock is perhaps one of the better regen users, due to the fact that its attack stat isnt a pitiful ~75 and it can actually threaten offensive pokemon with its stab. it also tanks earthquakes from max attack ray, which is kinda cool. sure, it might not be as specially bulky as registeel(lmao AV doesnt save you from life orb modest boombursts sadly) but its still a good offensive choice if regensteel scares you with its lacking of momentum.
regirock is still pretty much piss weak, just look at these calcs.

4 Atk Regirock Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 100-118 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Regirock Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 130-154 (49.6 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

It can barely pressure rail thin offensive threats, so i wouldn't say it can threaten with its stab. Also that isn't worse case scenario standard Mega Ray. You should take into account Life Orb, which guarantees the 2hko.

Found a set that might boost Mega Gengar up lil' bit on the ranking, where it's basically The Switch Forcer Of Satan. Or if you're facing someone who doesn't think to switch the Frustrating Trapper Of Satan. So basically Perish Song Gengar but hackmon'd.

( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) (Gengar-Mega) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Entrainment
- Shadow Ball / Draining Kiss / Giga Drain / Scald
- Infestation
- Toxic

You Entrainment everything and then trap it by spamming Infestation and little else to keep the foe trapped. Toxic/Will-o-Wisp is in case the thing you are facing is Ghost type and needs to be statused to death. (squints at Giratina. WE ALL SEE YOUR BULKY ASS) however Toxic cannot hurt other Gengars.
Focus sash means you can Entrainment a foe even if it wins the Speed tie and either force a switch onto your hazards or trap them with Infestation. A faster Skill Link user, especially physical ones, can tear through your set before you can Entrainment it, however.
Shadow Ball is a pretty nice move with a 20% chance of lowering Special Defense and becomes a STAB move if your ability is Skill Swapped or Mummied away, but Draining Kiss and Giga Drain mean you can get your colossal HP back after being brought down to your Focus Sash. Scald can be used in conjunction with Toxic to allow both burns and poison but you lose both STAB and recovery.

This set is not without its flaws, see my mention of Skill Link, but if you run Toxic it is imposterproof as the foe will have Normalize and be unable to touch you with anything. Being brought down to the Sash also leaves you unable to switch out and then in if you don't have a Defogger/Spinner.
It works best if you have Stealth Rock up, especially if you are running Sticky Web to ensure Gengar wins as many speed ties as possible. Be wary of Contrary users such as V-Create Mega Mewtwo X, though.

/endrant. Now go and frustrate people in Hackmons.
Normalize sets are pretty common low ladder and are pretty much the worst Mega Gengar set. Mega Gengar's main niche is being totally imposter proof with Judgment+ Spooky Plate, and still be able to run decent coverage. This set isn't really anything new and doesn't really raise Gengar's viability.
 
Wow this thread could really use a bumb.

I believe last time this thread was active, we had discussed dropping darm-zen off the rankings, due to it having no particular usage. As for Ho-Oh and Mega Swampert, they should both stay in C rank. Neither really makes in impact in the high ladder metagame. Ho-Oh is only reliable with one set. Yes Magic Guard can wall Mega Gengar, and Mega Mewtwo Y. But you have to run Magic Guard because you can never afford to take SR damage and switch in. Ultimately a niche Pokemon. Mega Swampert is decent because it walls Mega Tyranitar, but the lack of proven success should keep it a C rank.
I still believe Regirock and Xerneas deserve a drop. I've been told Xerneas is a good wall but i've seen no evidence of any such utility on the ladder. Yes it can run Magnet Pull sets to Imposter proof Dialga, but thats basically its only niche i've see of any real use. There are better Fairies in the tier for almost anything else it could run in Mega Audino and Diancie. It definitely deserves to be C- imo.
Regirock is supposed to be a dedicated wall to the best pokemon in the tier, but lets be honest, Ground and Fighting Coverage isn't that uncommon on Mega Ray. It would be one thing if Regirock handled Ground and Fighting coverage better then Registeel, but it doesn't. I think i've already proven Regirock is not an -ate wall, merely a Mega Ray and maybe even Tyranitar counter. The fact that it relys on an Ability (Sand Stream), or item (Assault Vest) limits its utility, so its generally a sub par choice to Registeel on most teams. It doesn't belong any place but C rank imo.
I think you're looking at most of these way too statically.

Ho-Oh is fine at C-rank and I for one don't think it needs a bump. However, what you said is only partially true. Ho-Oh did have another set before (Aerilate), but ORAS made it lackluster.

You missed the point of Mega Swampert. I said it was a damn good tank because it does things that the others can't. Registeel and Aegislash are too weak, MegaGyara hates Fairies, Groudon has less SpDef and a worse typing, MegaTar and Giratina have punishing weaknesses, and almost none of them have STAB 1kA. Your argument is it's only good for one thing when in reality, it's good because it can do things that other tanks can't, and it's a damn good replacement at that.

Xerneas is used over the two you listed for several reasons. First, It can actually kill things unlike Mega Audino. Second, it has much better bulk than Mega Diancie and is rarely used as a Pixilate user. Third, I used Xerneas before with Fur Coat and almost nothing could OHKO it. Include Wish, Moonblast, Spiky Shield, Knock Off, Defog, and a lot of good moves it can abuse along with great typing and bulk almost exceeding Kyurem, and it makes a ton of sense why it's a good wall.

As for Regirock, a LOT of what you said is wrong. First, Regirock takes the physical coverage moves better than Registeel unless Fur Coat is involved. Second, it can actually hurt things unlike Registeel, which some people look for in a wall. Third, it checks -ates just fine and runs moves to slay them. The entire point of Regirock is to switch into -ates and kill them, and it does that just fine. Don't knock a Pokemon for having one job when it does the job well.
 
I think you're looking at most of these way too statically.

Ho-Oh is fine at C-rank and I for one don't think it needs a bump. However, what you said is only partially true. Ho-Oh did have another set before (Aerilate), but ORAS made it lackluster.

You missed the point of Mega Swampert. I said it was a damn good tank because it does things that the others can't. Registeel and Aegislash are too weak, MegaGyara hates Fairies, Groudon has less SpDef and a worse typing, MegaTar and Giratina have punishing weaknesses, and almost none of them have STAB 1kA. Your argument is it's only good for one thing when in reality, it's good because it can do things that other tanks can't, and it's a damn good replacement at that.

Xerneas is used over the two you listed for several reasons. First, It can actually kill things unlike Mega Audino. Second, it has much better bulk than Mega Diancie and is rarely used as a Pixilate user. Third, I used Xerneas before with Fur Coat and almost nothing could OHKO it. Include Wish, Moonblast, Spiky Shield, Knock Off, Defog, and a lot of good moves it can abuse along with great typing and bulk almost exceeding Kyurem, and it makes a ton of sense why it's a good wall.

As for Regirock, a LOT of what you said is wrong. First, Regirock takes the physical coverage moves better than Registeel unless Fur Coat is involved. Second, it can actually hurt things unlike Registeel, which some people look for in a wall. Third, it checks -ates just fine and runs moves to slay them. The entire point of Regirock is to switch into -ates and kill them, and it does that just fine. Don't knock a Pokemon for having one job when it does the job well.
Except Regirock can't switch into -ates lol. It can only switch into Mega Ray. This isn't switching in:

252 SpA Life Orb Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regirock in Sand: 218-257 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Running special investment instead of physical investment on an -ate isn't uncommon. And i here the protests already "not all diancie run LO"

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regirock in Sand: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.

"Well safe switch ins don't really exist in BH." Yeah thats true to a certain degree, but you need to be able to switch into sets that aren't running coverage just to hammer you. Don't think that Regirock just struggles with Diancie-Mega. There is a reason Regirock didn't start seeing usage until after ORAS.

252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 161-191 (44.2 - 52.4%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

So thats why i say it only counters Mega Ray. Yeah it can do that pretty well. And it can sometimes counter Mega Tyranitar. But countering one or two Pokemon isn't a job worthy of anything more then C+ rank imo.

As for Xerneas i'm not wholly impressed by the fact that with fur coat "nothing can OHKO." Walls need to avoid 2hkos. Not if you want to call it a tank, thats something different. But i still have seen little to believe it can be successful as a tank in the metagame due to the lack of it's usage on high ladder teams, and no one has provided any replays to show it putting in work.

And you totally missed the boat on my argument for Mega Swampert. But i only wrote one sentence so i'll elaborate here. Yes it has a nice STAB 1K Arrows and it can tank some hard physical hits. Yes it does more then only one thing. But like Xerneas, i've seen little proof of it actually putting in work in highly successful competitive teams. In theory it could be a nice PH Shift Gear user, but does it really work on ladder? Does it work in tours? I don't think its unreasonable to ask for more proof. If you can provide more proof i would support a higher rank, but for now i think it belongs in C rank.
 
As seen in this post, it has been proved that Pokémon transformed into Hoopa-U CAN use Hyperspace Fury.
Thus Hoopa-U is left with little to no niche and should drop to D or maybe even unranked, as Imposter can now touch it and hit it hard with Hyperspace Fury.
 
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MAMP

MAMP!
I feel that D is probably the best place for Hoopa-U now; even without its imposterproof niche it still hits very hard from both sides and has decent special bulk. It seems to fit very well into the description of D Rank:
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the BH metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.
 
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