Analyzing and Reflecting on BW OU

Jukain

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idea shamelessly stolen from Molk's RU thread, who stole it from skylight's NU version of the same -- approved by Haunter and PK Gaming

BW OU has undergone many evolutions and shifts over the course of the past couple years -- the purpose of this thread is to reflect on its ups and downs, as well as your personal favorite eras. For example, when Excadrill was in the metagame, no one could have imagined a metagame such as today's, in which rain is the dominant weather, and which Gliscor is in most ways outclassed entirely by another Pokemon. Many Pokemon have fluctuated in usage despite nothing necessarily new that hurt it being released -- these are called metagame trends. Numerous strategies have risen and fallen in effectiveness some even at the point of domination -- VoltTurn in late BW1 comes to mind. This thread is meant to let you discuss your favorite and least favorite parts of the metagame and reflect on its development. With that, I leave you with some questions!

A metagame is a period of OU that is different from the rest, i.e. Excadrill's time in OU.

1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?

2) What were your least favorite metagames?

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?

happy discussing~
 
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MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?
From my time in ou, probably the torn-t one. Was it ideal? No. Does it beat the boring pursuit wars that occur now? Yup! I think that rain is a fun playstyle in general and having the meta more centered around one weather I thought was much more akin to having a weatherless meta than having each weather about even

2) What were your least favorite metagames?
I suppose OU, simply by virtue of not having much time to branch out

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?
Starting competitive pokemon, personally. In terms of the meta, I don't have too much (wish I was around to try genesect!)

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?
Stall has, I believe, had a small uprising, unless all of the complaints that stall is impossible and nonexistant in the past were unfounded. I think sand has taken rain's place moreso as the more consistently good weather. I think the most notable growth was for the latis. It seemed like they found a better place with the release of almost every new threat

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?
Rotom-W I have always found difficult to deal with, both defensively and offensively. I can imagine it held quite a place during the volt-turn era as well. It fits on so many teams, checks so many things, and is a general pain in the ass.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.
Um... given that my experience is generally based in the ladder (and is limited by sheer time), I don't think I really have any that fit the bill

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?
OU

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?
Trapping/Pursuit in general as well as U-turn

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?
This is a toughy... maybe SS+Drizzle if that meant a different ban in its place. Otherwise, I think that deo-d was not nearly as difficult to handle as people made it out to be.
 
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1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?
I only started playing BW OU in recent months, so I don't really know how to answer "which meta is best or worst".

2) What were your least favorite metagames?
See above.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?
Mamoswine lead. Tried and true strategy of 4th gen. Winning with it is awesome because Mamoswine requires reads to really succeed. Earthquaking an Espeon that thinks he can switch into Stealth Rock is the best feeling ever. Or of course using Earthquake against Crowbat, and then watching my opponent squirm as they switch in Metagross. Yeah man.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?
Weather control is huge, but given Rain is better than Sandstorm or Sunny Day, it unfortunately has dominated the metagame. Setup based offense teams generally don't work well, and in general offense is limited to revenge killing or stuff that breaks stall.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?
Keldeo is Alakazam 2.0. It hits like a truck and it's super fast. And unlike Alakazam, it's actually not extremely frail, and can't be simply checked by throwing Scizor to shut down the "squishy sweep attempt".

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.
Anything against Rotom-W is annoying because my main team has no real way to pin it down outside of a lucky Mamoswine read into Volt Switch, who might get burned. http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent-39394713

Also Keldeo is broken ass shit. A FAST special attacker than can defeat Blissey that can't be priority revenge killed easily? Yeah, fuck Keldeo. I'll be happy when it's banned.

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?
Hard to say. I've only played OU in recent months.

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?
Keldeo and Alakazam need to go. Super fast special attackers are the bane of Pokemon, because Game Freak for dumb reasons allows them to have almost no counterplay. This is especially because of Hidden Power. Hidden Power is the worst move in the game because FREE SUPER EFFECTIVE COVERAGE OF YOUR CHOICE is honestly bullshit. Attackers SHOULD be walled consistently based on their natural type coverage. Now, if only Natural Gift was slightly stronger, because THAT move is actually very well designed and balanced because it has ACTUAL drawbacks. Hidden Power in contrast is legitimately broken nonsense. It would be better if they just gave Magnezone and all the grass type sweepers Heat Wave/Flamethrower, and removed Hidden Power. Stuff like that would be much better for the game. No other move like Hidden Power so ridiculously ruins the competitive check/counter system when dealing with Special attackers.

I should clarify, it's actually OK for an attacker to have perfect neutral coverage. It is NOT ok however for special attackers to patch up their weaknesses with SUPER EFFECTIVE COVERAGE that has almost no drawbacks.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?
Probably nothing. BW Pokemon have a bad habit of being braindead in terms of having "perfect" strategies that require almost no prediction to succeed with if you understand the concept of safe switches. My main problem with BW meta is that more Pokemon need to be like Mamoswine to be honest. Mamoswine is strong, has a great niche, but requires you to play him carefully and read your opponent even once he makes it in. More Pokemon should have similar risk/reward designs as him. That would make a fun game. Unfortunately most Pokemon in OU are basically high reward low risk once switched in safely.
 
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Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
As a person lurking since ADV, playing LOTS of BW matches, mainly a pioneer of non standard sun, etc. I believe my slight experience made me respond to this thread a lot, also I just wanted to say that this is an excellent thread Jukain.

1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?

As one of the people who has played all the BW tiers except RU extensively (I only played RU a bit), I have to say Ubers, most balanced imo (brokenly balanced) and fun

2) What were your least favorite metagames?

Sadly, RU and OU I believe, since OU was just way too stale later on and RU was just too "weird"

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?

The moment drizzleswim got banned, I cried joy-fully

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?

I think heavy offense and rain offense have risen in the place of sand and sun offense due to the bans of blaziken and excadrill. I've got to say, conkelldurr, and reuniclus and have dropped. and personally, latias has become a fucking amazing beast with all the shit it got to check n' counter from new releases and general meta shifts

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?

Latias is a close second to the pokemon I'm about to say....
Venusaur, some of you may find this odd, as venu isn't particularly popular due to the abundance of rain and the lack of sun players in this metagame, however as a sun player and lover I feel obligated to say venu. Mainly because it has potent STABs with all the rain sweepers and poison neutral pokes, checks toed, makes rain seriously pressured, excellent boosting and utility moves, etc. Venusaur has always been a threat to most teams, and has consistently been a simply put, a badass in BW OU (if blaziken was never banned my post would mainly be summarized as a 8 paragraph long post glorifying blaziken at question 5)

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.

My toughest match was actually in 2010 cartridge of BW, back before drizzle swim was banned, I was using a bulky Sun offense team revolving around Sawsbuck (known then as Mebukijica I think, not sure, my english to kana to romajii is rough these days), blaziken and Latias. it was a guy abusing drizzle swim with ludicolo and bulky rindo berry kabutops, it was a tough match but LO latias's recover won me the game

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?

NeverUsed, hands down, have to give props to the old NU council, they kept the tier solid and balanced through most of BW. (still is balanced and very solid, the jynx retest was genius)

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?

Prankster, mainly because defiant thundurus would have been fucking awesome to mess around with since prankster was the main reason as to why it was banned, that and every prankster user and their mother is so fucking annoyiing, NU swagpard users should not be getting away with clutch wins because they know how to abuse the RNG, heck if I really could I could find a way to abuse the RNG cartridge wise to the point where I'm invincible, but that would go against my personal views toward the metagame.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?

Blaziken.
I cannot tell you how much of a kick in the face this was to offensive sun players everywhere, including me, Blaziken was one of the only things on a sun team that could check rain and sand so effortlessly while still having stable checks and counters, while it was a bit insane at times, I think really blaziken was a healthy push towards not having the metagame be so rain centered and STALE like it is now, but when he was gone, the metagame was left with such a mess of rain threats everywhere and jsut a generally dissapointing turnout of a metagame for gen 5 imo. WHatever though, in reality a blaziken retest would never happen, that' why I know to keep my mouth shut on the topic during OU suspect/retest nominee discussions
 
1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?
Deoxys-D era. Weatherless had a great weapon to fight with and become almost as threatening as a weather team.

2) What were your least favorite metagames?
Tornadus-t. Fuck that shit.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?
Drizzle and Drought being available outside of ubers obviously. Unfornately the existence of things like tornadus-t, keldeo and blaziken have made it though to balance weather.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?
Stall suffered a big fall since the introduction of more and more offensive threats specially some that seemed to be made specifically to destroy it (hello kyurem black). Offensive, be it weather or not, is the best playstyle at the moment, so much that it makes stall and balanced teams difficult to make due to the sheer number of threats they need to cover.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?
Keldeo. It works in any team bar sun and the fact that it can put mindgames on its counters thanks to its unpredictable nature makes it without a doubt the most dangerous pokemon in the current meta.
6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.
Meh, cant remember much but i once used a poor hail team to ladder and got into an extremely close match against a sand team. Needless to say sand is a bitch to hail but i ended up winning thanks to landorus-t. The last stand between him and hippowdon was pretty cool.

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?
Excadrill because it was so easy to sweep its not even funny.
8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?
Kyurem-Black, Keldeo, sleep moves, confuse moves, and baton pass.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?
Deoxys-D, i never really found that to be that threatening and always stopped it easily. Also Landorus due to how hard it was to bring it in and how easy it was to revenge kill and the should i say absurdely specific circunstances of its ban (''its broken only when used alongside ttar and keldeo'')
 
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PDC

street spirit fade out
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Just saying, but by "metagame" I think he means "era" of BW OU. Like Excadrill era, Garchomp Sand Veil era, Blaziken era, Tornadus-T era, etc. Not tier.
 
@MikeDawg -- By metagame I mean like when Excadrill wss OU, late BW1, when Genesect was OU, etc.
Just saying, but by "metagame" I think he means "era" of BW OU. Like Excadrill era, Garchomp Sand Veil era, Blaziken era, Tornadus-T era, etc. Not tier.
Yeah, that. At any rate:

1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?

Looking back, I actually enjoyed the Excadrill metagame, believe it or not. I know Excadrill was broken and all, but not only did it make Sand offense a dominating force almost singlehandedly, but it was actually kinda fun to use and play around. I also really enjoyed BW1 post-Deoxys-S, although that also turned into a big crapfest of VoltTurn. The dominance of VoltTurn (which at the time was such an easy and mindless playstyle to use) got to be annoying, although it was fun getting creative with the VoltTurn users you used to shake things up. Before the VoltTurn phase really exploded, though, BW1 was a pretty balanced metagame that was a pretty enjoyable.

2) What were your least favorite metagames?

The big VoltTurn craze annoyed me, so the latest months of BW1 weren't as enjoyable for me. There's also the beginning of BW where Darkrai, Skymin, DrizzleSwim, etc. were running around everywhere.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?

I don't know, I'm not a big tournament player, nor do I have the patience to try to ladder much, but I guess I'd say around the time of the Deoxys-S test where I was able to ladder into the top 10. I've been at the top of the ladder in a couple of other tiers, but top 10 was my personal best for OU, so I guess that was special.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?

For the most part, BW OU has been a metagame dominated in many ways by weather, but I guess there have been a couple of playstyles that I've seen rise and fall. Baton Pass was a pretty potent playstyle at one point, even earning itself a suspect test, but now it's not as big a deal. VoltTurn has also been a decent archetype for much of BW OU, but I don't think I've ever seen it dominate like it did back in the latter months of BW1.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?

I'd have to say Terrakion, to be honest. It has constantly been a dominating offensive force with its excellent offenses and STABs. Terrakion is one of the best Scarf users in the game with its great base 108 speed and STAB Close Combat. It's Band set is downright scary as well with the raw power it offers. BW2 even gave it Stealth Rock, which makes Terrakion one of the best Stealth Rock leads in the game. It's even got Swords Dance and Rock Polish to boost power or speed and sweep. Not many Pokemon have been as much of a threat as Terrakion has, and many of the ones who have were banned.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.

I don't have the foggiest.

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?

Same answer as to the first question.

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?

Maybe Stealth Rock, at least temporarily. Now, I'm not necessarily one of those people who thinks it's broken, but I'd like to see a metagame without it. I suspect that Dragonite and Volcarona would probably end up being broken without Stealth Rock to help keep them in check, but the loss of the hazard would make a ton of other stuff more viable and easy to use. Flying typing would go from being a curse to being a blessing due to the immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and Pokemon of other Rock-weak types would prosper. I have a feeling that a few Pokemon such as Moltres and Yanmega would be a lot more attractive on OU teams, Sun teams would flourish due to the decreased need for a spinner, and even Charizard might become a good OU choice due to the much lower risk of using it. It'd be interesting, to say the least.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?

Assuming we can include unbans here, I'd say Kyurem-B, but as far as bans go, maybe Deoxys-D. I can understand why many people thought it was broken, but I just never found it broken myself. I might also unban Blaziken just so I can destroy people in OU with it, but it was stupidly broken, so there's that.
 

Legitimate Username

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1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?
The Deoxys-D metagame was easily my favourite. The Genesect metagame was a close second, as despite being pretty broken, the constant fast paced U-turning excitement was pretty fun.

2) What were your least favorite metagames?
I hated Tornadus-T when it was around, because unlike Keldeo, it was just too difficult for weatherless teams to handle without actually being usable on weatherless. Before Sand Veil was banned wasn't much fun either. If I'd been around during DrizzleSwim, I probably would have hated that even more.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?
I'd have to say when Deoxys-D was banned, and I shifted my main playstyle from Hyper Offense to Trick Room. Having previously always felt completely helpless against it in this speed-based metagame, it felt great to be on the other side of that when playing against a heavily offensive team.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?
Despite all the complaints about Rain being overpowered, I feel like the metagame has shifted more towards Sand since Keldeo was released, and especially when Landorus was around.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?
Probably Scizor and Rotom-W, even though Volt-Turn has fallen since BW1 it can still be pretty formidable. As a Trick Room player, I kind of feel obliged to add Reuniclus, as despite it not being the monster it used to be earlier in this generation, it's still easily capable of pulling off sweeps.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou10421880 (my alt is Peachy Keen).
When I was first testing out the Slowbro/Amoonguss core on a stall team, I ended up with this absolutely brutal 87 turn battle, and since I didn't have a spinner, my opponent got down 4 layers of entry hazards. It eventually ended when I managed to bring in Scarf Ditto (weird choice for a stall, but it worked) and sweep the second half of his team after slowly wearing down the first half.

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?
I'm a pretty big fan of Ubers and Little Cup, both of them are really fun and not too difficult to learn.

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?
Tough choice, but I'd have to say Kyurem-B. I'd haven't had THAT much trouble dealing with it, but I've found it still too easy to abuse. The Substitute set especially seems broken, given that it can potentially wreck offense almost as much as stall. Had that been discovered during its suspect test, I think it would have been significantly less likely (though not guarenteed) to come down to OU.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?
Probably Deoxys-D. Despite the fact that it hurt stall, I don't think it was very broken, and much less to blame for that than the general offensive power creep that BW brought.
 
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dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
1. Which metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?
In terms of balance, I'm not really sure what the best meta we had was.

2. Which were your least favorite metagames?
I didn't have reliable Internet access during the hell that was BW OU before the Drizzleswim ban, thankfully. As such, I'd have to say the era when Excadrill was still legal. Not only was Excadrill itself annoying, but if memory serves, the meta was extremely centralized around sand and Conkeldurr started to pop up all over the place.

3. What are your personal highlights of BW?
Teaching my girlfriend the art of competitive Pokemon was a truly beautiful thing.
If we're talking about direct gameplay experience, my switch to a sun team when BW2 rolled around was the best decision I've made. As amusing as Tyraniboah was to play with, sun fits my instincts better and allows my beloved Grass-types to shine, so it was a lot more fun overall.

4. How do you think the metagame has shifted? Which playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? Which Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?
We've seen weather wars become a defining characteristic of competitive play, and we've seen things get a lot more offensive in general. Stall has become a very curious case indeed - as OU play became more and more focused around heavy hitters, stall fell from grace. It was increasingly difficult to deal with the variety of powerful attackers, which led to a general decline in the effectiveness of stall, but that playstyle subsequently dove so far under the radar that plenty of offensive players don't seem to know how to deal with it anymore. As for specific Pokemon, the only stars to truly fall within BW itself that I can think of now are Blissey and Gliscor. While Reuniclus is no longer the destroyer of worlds that it used to be, it's still a very effective threat against various different team styles, depending on which set it's running. The big winners as BW progressed were Terrakion and Latias - the former rose from obscurity to become one of the top offensive Pokemon around, and the latter works as a fantastic check to various attackers (and has the potential to work pretty well on offense, to boot).

5. What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?
Definitely Jirachi. It can do so many different things so well that it's got the potential to run through almost the whole game with the appropriate sets, and the flagship SpD-rachi trolls the game harder than almost anything else. Truly a star *shot*

6. What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.
...Can I get back to you on this?

7. What was your favorite metagame in this generation?
See above.

8. If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?
In the context of BW OU, Chansey. That thing is a total nightmare. (That being said, if I could retroactively erase any Pokemon from existence, it would be Ludicolo.)

9. If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?
My wishful thinking: Blaziken. My realistic answer in terms of game balance: Deoxys-D. I didn't agree with the Landorus ban either, but Deoxys-D was not broken in the slightest. Sure, it was nearly guaranteed to get a couple of layers of hazards up, but it was setup fodder for a huge number of enemies who could then blaze through it and seriously dent the rest of its team. It also wasn't that difficult to get a spin off during that time (at least if you were using Starmie).
 
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Lady Alex

Mew is blue
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1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?

I would honestly have to say the Excadrill metagame. I accepted that Excadrill was broken, but I felt that teambuilding was a lot more fun during that time. I guess that may be because I used Skarmory and Gliscor a lot back then, so Excadrill never bothered me too much.

2) What were your least favorite metagames?

The Deoxys-S/post Deoxys-S metas and all of BW2. Deoxys-S was so versatile in what it could do and how effectively it performed all of its roles that trying to check it was a nightmare. Afterward, things weren't much better. The huge rise in usage of volt-turn centered teams was incredibly boring. It was a braindead playstyle that was extremely effective. BW2 has mostly been unplayably boring for me. The introduction of the therian forms, Genesect, and Keldeo, imo, turned the meta to shit, and it doesn't look like anything is going to change.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?

This isn't metagame related, really, but I enjoyed the Dark Horse projects. It was always fun building new teams using pokemon that were uncommon, but still quite viable.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?

Comparing the metagame after darkrai and friends were banned to today's metagame, I would say that offensively oriented balance teams have become the new norm. It's kind of disgusting how common the Tyranitar + Landorus-T + Keldeo + Keldeo check core has become. Traditional stall has taken a huge dive in usage. It's almost non-existent now. By traditional stall, I'm referring to teams that were almost totally focused on passive damage. Nowadays, when people refer to stall, it looks more like "Defensive team catered to providing a late game offensive clean-up," rather than what I think of as stall. I think Gliscor is a great example of "oh how the mighty hath fallen." At one time, it was top 10 in usage, but now it's not very common at all, since Landorus-T has completely taken over its niche of being the best Terrakion counter. The fact that it can no longer be considered a counter to Breloom has also led to its niche being diminished.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?

I'd probably go with Starmie. It's the only offensive rapid spinner in the tier, and it has always done its job very well. It's become even more effective as of late with people starting to utilize Analytic.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.

Probably a ladder match I had against Kevin Garret back when Sand-veil Garchomp was around. I was using a rain stall team against his Solum's Core. I ultimately lost to a sand veil miss, but it was a close, fun match.

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?


Same as 1.

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?


Stealth rock. Easily.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?

I wouldn't reverse any.
 

Gary

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1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?

I'd have to say the post Genesect ban. Although there were still other suspects that had yet to be banned like Tornadus-T, Landorus, and Deoxys-D, there was just something about that metagame that felt fresh, and revitalizing. Maybe it was knowing that I no longer had to deal with that piece of shit Cyborg bug anymore or face anymore Lavos sun teams. For some reason, team building just seemed so much less restricted at that time. It was interesting to see a lot more originality in team building as well, instead of just a bunch of HO teams based around a RP Genesect sweep and other revenge killers actually being used. That's just my personal opinion.

2) What were your least favorite metagames?

Hmmm...probably the Excadrill metagame. I admit that I JUST started to really get into competitive battling at that time, but boy oh boy was that a really rough start for me. The fact that people were using shit like Gardevoir to check that thing was of a reason enough to make me not want to play at all. Too much weather, team building was way too restrict, etc. Didn't like that metagame at all. Thank god that's over.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?

The banning of Excadrill. Again, screw that shit.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?

As of now, Rain and Sand offense seem to be the most common playstyles, with Balanced teams not too far behind that. Offensive rain teams are just so amazing right now with the sheer amount of Pokemon that can abuse it to death, like Thundurus-T, Starmie, Keldeo, and Tornadus. Even with the banning of Torn-T, rain offense is still going strong, and it is easily one of the most dangerous playstyles out there right now. Sand offense has been really popular lately due to Landorus and Keldeo having great synergy with Tyranitar. Although Landorus was just recently banned, it still seems to be going strong. Keldeo is just so damn good with T-Tar, and the two of them can single handedly dismantle teams. Balance is getting popular most likely due to the popularity of the previously mentioned playstyles. Balance is very good at both checking and countering a lot of things found on offensive rain and sand teams, so it makes sense that Balance is becoming a more popular playstyle.

It's obvious that stall has definitely fallen the farthest in effectiveness this past generation. With all these amazing offensive power houses, stall is just so restricted to a point where it's not even worth using. Good stall teams are often hard to come by because of the sheer amount of support a stall team needs these days in order to succeed. Even with the banning of Pokemon that regularly troubled stall like Tornadus-T, Genesect, and Landorus, it just never seems that stall can catch a break. Sun has also fallen a bit off the radar recently, mostly because of Keldeo and Landorus took massive dumps on them. Even after Landorus ban though, sun still struggles. Losing Genesect really put a wallop on their team building, because now they have a harder time breaking through Heatran.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?

Scizor. Good god almighty. This thing is not only the face of Volt-turn, but it's one of the biggest reasons every team carries a Fire move and a bug resist. The Banded set has always been amazing this generation, but the recently discovered SD Acro set has proven to be one of its most dangerous sets. It's bulky, very powerful, and has amazing utility for an offensive Mon. It glues a lot of teams together, and that's why it's consistently been #1 in the usage stats for so long. There was never a time when this thing was bad, even in the Genesect era.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.

I honestly have no idea. I've had quite a lot of good battles.

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?

The Genesect metagame. That thing was broken as hell, but I loved using it so much. It swept teams so easily, and it's Choice Scarf set was always useful.

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?

Scald. The ability to just freely spam all the time with no drawbacks is stupid, and its distribution is huge. It makes every bulky Pokemon THAT much bulkier, and it's the bane of stall teams. I tolerate it, but I don't really like it.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?

I don't really think any bans should be reversed. I feel like all of our bans have been justifiable. Although I do think that Landorus should potentially be tested again after the incident with the few stupid voters, I don't think anything in particular should be reversed.
 
1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?
Late BW1

2) What were your least favorite metagames?
Kyurem-B unban onwards.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?
Destroying both PO's beta server and the smogon server with hyper offensive sun, with no spinner and a Volcarona, getting top 10 on both ladders.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?
Rain Stall has fallen a little bit, but it's still a great playstyle overall, while weatherless hyper offense is more common than it used to be. Gliscor has definitely seen better days, Excadrill's ban and Landorus-T being released weren't too kind to it. Bisharp, however is taking full advantage of Landorus-T being the main defensive backbone of more offensive teams, and Gliscor being rarely seen.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?
Volcarona, it's a rather one-dimensional pokemon, but it's still managed to be an amazing and incredibly dangerous pokemon throughout the entirety of BW

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.
A ladder match vs Marth's Feraligatr team in BW1, I don't remember it very well but it came down to a last turn 50/50 prediction, which I unfortunately lost. He just played incredibly well and it was a difficult team matchup. But yeah, my memory is awful ;_;

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?
Late BW1

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?
Hmm.. Tough one.. Part of me wants to say Scald, other part wants to say U-turn, other part wants to say pursuit.. Ugh.. Hmm.. Yeah, definitely U-turn.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?
Landorus-I, I've just never had too much trouble with it personally, it didn't seem broken to me at all, and I actually believe that it made for a better metagame than the current one.
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?
I think the "best" metagame was probably the post-Genesect or post-Deoxys-D metagames. Post-Genesect was great because we went from all HO all the time to slightly more balanced. Lavos Sun was finally dead, so we were seeing some variety as well (prior to Genesetc being banned, I don't think I saw a single sun team that WASN'T Ninetales/Genesect/Dugtrio/Venusaur/Xatu or Espeon/Sun attacker). Yes Tornadus-T was in this metagame, and I do think it was broken, but I don't think it was so bad as to make the metagame worse. It was just that he was tough to wear down thanks to Regenerator. The post-Deoxys-D metagame was also good. Keldeo/Ttar/Landorus was sort of just being discovered as a core in general, and people hadn't quite figured out the "no-lose situation" you can create with Lando+Keldeo+Pursuit trapper. I feel like just about every style was usable during this time period, from sand to rain to sun to weatherless, you could do basically whatever you wanted. Nothing really popped out as exceedingly "broken" in this meta.

2) What were your least favorite metagames?
Definitely the end of BW1. Honestly, that meta was complete garbage. Almost every team was a VoltTurn team, and at the time those teams were just way too easy to pull off. I had no fun playing back then, and I ended up not playing for about a month before I got wind of the BW2 move tutor moves being released soon.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?
I would have to say that the highlight of my BW career was when I was laddering for the Landorus Suspect Test and I saw several people on the ladder using my Sheer Force Conkeldurr team. That was such a cool moment for me, because I felt like my work was being appreciated.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?
I think it's funny just how much the metagame changed between BW and BW2 for basically no reason other than metagame fluctuations. I mean, back in BW1, it was all about bulky offense. Conkeldurr, Rotom-W, Reuniclus, Dragonite, those were the kings of OU. Nowadays, the meta is all about speed. Rarely did one ever see Scarf Latios on a BW1 team, but it's relatively commonplace in BW2. Hell, I've seen a bunch of Scarf Tornadus lately. I think the reason for this is Tornadus-T. Tornadus-T reminded us all just how fast and powerful Pokémon could be. I don't think a Scarf Pokémon was necessary on every team in BW1, but in BW2, you needed something that could at least outpace Tornadus-T or you were doomed to lose. It set the bar for offensive Pokémon's speed, and made things like Scarf Tyranitar and Magnezone undesirable Scarf Pokémon. Obviously Keldeo and Terrakion contributed to this as well, but I think Tornadus-T is what made the shift as significant as it was.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?
Definitely Terrakion. I don't know how anyone could say anything different. It has been and always will be the most consistent threat in OU. The fact that a simple Scarf set is still one of the best revenge killers in the game is a testament to just how good it has been since the beginning of BW1. From Double Dance to SubSalac to Choice Band to LO HP Ice to Lead SR, Terrakion can perform so many roles while still being a pretty one-dimensional Pokémon. Its probably the Pokémon I have thought about most often while building new teams, since I first started playing at the beginning of BW1, and even now I have to make sure I have a Pokémon to tank a Close Combat and a Stone Edge on every team.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.
I can't remember any specific "tough" battles off the top of my head. I've had friendly matches with Dice before that were challenging, but they were too short to really be called "tough."

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?
Probably the Genesect one simply because Rock Polish Genesect was so much fun.

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?
I think it would have to be Pursuit. I just don't like restricting switches at THAT level. When you're Pokémon is trapped and there's literally NOTHING you can do about it, that sucks. With Magnezone, Dugtrio, and Gothitelle, at the very least if you KNOW that you're weak to being trapped, you can run Shed Shell to escape from them. There's nothing a Latios can do to save itself from a Tyranitar, though.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?
If I had my way, Keldeo would have been banned and Landorus would not. I also really want to retest Thundurus-I, but I understand that it would probably be broken.
 

ShootingStarmie

Bulletproof
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
The best metagame for me personally was late BW1. I felt this is where most play styles were viable, and not many threats were broken (I think Dragonite was pretty hard to deal with due to Multi-scale, but I can't say it was broken, and Terrakion was pretty amazing too). I just liked having the variety of facing a lot of different teams, and most of my favourite Pokemon were really good in OU at this point in time. My least favourite metagame was probably when Tornadus-T became the dominant force, as you had to either run Rotom-W or Jirachi on every team, and rain was everywhere. With other broken Pokemon like Genesect you still had different play styles (since Genesect worked in Sand, Weatherless, Rain, and Sun), unlike Tornadus-T, which made the metagame rain dominated and really stale.

My favourite time in OU has to be when I post an RMT and people are using my team. It's just really cool the fact that someone has liked your team so much that they are actually laddering with it, despite the huge disadvantage of people knowing the team and all the sets. It's also really cool when you popularize a set (although I don't think I was the main reason for any set to be made popular). SD Acrobatics Scizor's usage went through the roof once I released my team featuring it, along with Feraligatr.

Early BW1 was crazy offence, with threats like Deoxys-S, Excadrill, Blazeiken, SS + Drizzle, and other really powerful Pokemon all dominating the metagame (in their respective times, of course). Once these threats were banned, BW1 generally became all about bulky offense and Voltturn. Every Sand team was Tyranitar / Rotom-W / Scizor / Landorus-I / Latios / Terrakion. Rain teams generally consisted of Politoed / Toxicroak / Latios / Scizor / Jirachi / Rotom-W. Sand and Rain were always considered the best weathers in the metagame, mainly because the Ninetales and Abomasnow are both weak to SR, and lack good abusers of their own weather. Late BW1, Terrakion and (imo) Dragonite really dominated the metagame, as nothing could switch in safely to Terrakion, and Dragonite was almost guaranteed +2 with no SR on the field. BW2 released a crap ton of new threats, and offense dominated the metagame. With threats like Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T, and Genesect, there was no way for stall to be viable during this period. This metagame often came down to who can get a Rock Polish off first with their Genesect to win the game, which I think sounds like a terrible metagame, but that's generally because I'm a fan of stall. So after these Pokemon were banned, people are still questioning if Stall is viable, and some argue that it isn't, thanks to Kyurem-B, Breloom, and Thundurus-T.

The most consistent and dangerous Pokemon in OU has to go to Dragonite. During BW1, 90% of the time it was going to get +2 if you could keep rocks off of the field, and a +2 Dragonite is just so hard to beat. The fact that Dragonite could always run different sets like Sub Roost DD, Dragon Tail, and Choice Band just make it a terrifying Pokemon to face if Rocks aren't up on the field. Volcarona, Jirachi, and Terrakion all came to mind for me about this, but Volcarona isn't nearly as consistent, as it's one dimensional in that it's only used as a sweeper, and it's even weaker to hazards and generally relies on weather to be successful. Jirachi is very consistent in that it offers Wish support and a solid switch into Latios, but I wouldn't say it's "dangerous" enough to be considered for the most consistent and dangerous. Terrakion was also very close, but the only thing that's stopping me from nominating it is that it became so much less useful with Landorus-T around to counter it, plus Breloom + Keldeo giving it competition on a team spot as an offensive Fighting type. Terrakion didn't have to worry about any of this in BW1.

The toughest battle I ever had was probably vs. Qseasons

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou5450457

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou5467296

Qseasons and I are / were both serious ladder players on PS! What I mean by this is that we both were trying to climb the ladder, and we'd run into each other a few times, and every battle we had involved great plays, endurance, and and predictions. Both battles come down to really close finishes, and both replays feature the same teams (which adds to the mindgames, knowing what your opponent is running can make you play weird).

My favourite metagame is probably late BW1, mainly because it was the most versatile, and you wasn't running into the same team every 5 games (unlike early BW1 / the majority of BW2). If I could pick one thing to get rid of, it'd probably be Scald. Scald is an incredible move, and it's so easily spammable on any defensive Water type. This is one of the few ways rain stall beats Ferrothorn (they wait to burn it on the switch), and it's why Celebi is such a better Rain check overall (as it's kinda immune to Status, thanks to Natural Cure), allowing it to switch into Politoed / Gastrodon / Tentacruel easily, unlike Ferrothorn (Ferrothorn still switches in easily, but getting a burn on Ferrothorn can potentially lose you the game, and sometimes just makes you want to rip your hair out).

Erm, I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but if I could reverse any ban or un ban, I'd definitely wouldn't allow Kyurem-B into OU. I really didn't like people's reasoning as to why it should be brought down into OU. I generally thought that smogon was trying to copy PO with the Kyurem-B test, and people wanted to bring it down into OU just because it checks Rain / Sun teams very well and done well vs. Genesect. The thing is, Smogon shouldn't be keeping (potentially) broken threats in OU (Kyurem-B) just to check other (potentially) broken threats (weather). Now I'm not saying Drizzle or Drought is broken, but this was the main reasoning behind bringing Kyurem-B down to OU, which I really disagreed with.

Nice thread Jukain.
 
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1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?

The best teams for me are the ones where diversity was abundant, nothing was considered an auto-win and you could experiment and team build without too much constraints involved. With that being said, I say the tiny window the was opened when Exca was banned and before anybody figured out that Rain was actually a huge threat after Swift Swim ban and this current Keldeo meta to be the best.


2) What were your least favorite metagames?

In order of least favorite to relatively bad meta:

Deo-S + 5 > Deo-D + 5 > Genesect Teams > OP Rain Offense teams (Thundrus-I, Tornadus-T)> Excadrill Meta

The first meta really killed every other team out there, with the D + 5 not falling very behind in that category. It was really just a bunch of Deo's leading the match and trying to outdo each other through various crazy methods before launching a sweeper to clean up. Genesect was everywhere but unlike the worst meta, he worked on pretty much every team, so while technically no playstyle suffered other than stall, not using Genesect and preparing to counter it as best as you can meant you missing out, big time. The Rain OP teams was also another meta that just really to either use rain or an anti-rain team, which usually didn't work most of the time. The least offending meta especially in the light of current releases , but still crappy was Excadrill, he invalidated the concept of scarves, pretty much what OP Rain teams did to team building but he was one broken sweeper instead of two.


3) What are your personal highlights of BW?


Really ever since I made the X5Dragon Dances All D-Nite team and developed it from a backwater semi-good team to a multi-number 1 peaking machine, and my biggest joy has been players dropping by ever day asking me if I'm the real thing and thanks for sharing it with them. You can win tournaments and hog the ladder pole, but if you don't have peer recognition that means you haven't made in impact on the game, which is something I will always strive to achieve regardless of laddering success.


4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?

I think it's safe to say it's been a tug of war between sand and rain, with rain edging out sand after Exca was gone and sand playing catch up till this day. The other playstyles were fighting for 3rd place most of the time (with the exception of the Deo-S era) and in last place defense carved a lil niche for itself as the domain of highly skilled and challenge seeking players, and had it's high peaks in both the Exca meta (Schwenstigers Sand Stall) and early post Exca meta (M Dragon's Rain Stall team).

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?

I'm pretty confident that Ferrothorn runs the entire metagame under the shadows and has minions do the rest. Seriously though I'd go with Dragonite, Scizor and Breloom, ever since their DW abilities have been released and people finally learned how to use Scizor, there was no stopping them. Fads come and go, these three are here to stay.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.

I'm an pure HO player, so naturally my worst enemy is stall, and my hardest matches has always been the best two stall teams ever to exist, M Dragon's stall and Schweinsteiger Stall, and I had the please of meeting it while I was still young and fresh and well, see for yourself:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/till-the-last-dragon-breath-ho-vs-sand-stall.3458218/

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?


I actually think this current meta is the best one, evidently shown by the steady rise of weatherless offensive teams, sun teams and weather stall, which were kept down for a larger part of the generation. Which is nothing surprising really, considering how long and far we went to get here, banning all those deo's and weather sweepers as well as Genesect.

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?


Oh definitely Jirachi as a whole, Iron Heading people with 60% flinch rate is just wrong, even in normal conversation we use the word HaxRachi and Parahax and Flinch hax to described it, how it slipped past our ban radars I will never know.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?


Blaziken, could have made sun teams much more viable without necessarily breaking anything as its OP ability and good STABS were let down by it's constant need of support and super frail defenses and lack of priority resistances outside of BP, even which it could do nothing once Scizor has made it's dance.
 

Jukain

!_!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
okay I guess it's time to post in my own thread

1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?

hm, this one takes some thought, considering I've played this whole generation... With that in mind I think the 'best' metagame was Genesect meta. You can throw trash at Genesect all you want, but Genesect made EVERYTHING better. Every build benefited from its presence in OU. Everyone saw the dip sun took with the elimination of Genesect. I found its effects, rather than negative, positive. Sure, it might have been unfortunately low on counters, but I think if we had discovered Kyurem-B's potential earlier, it would have been significantly easier to handle. It bolstered Heatran and benefited virtually every team. An all-purpose revenge killer is something sorely lacking in OU. I guess you have Scarf Jirachi, but it's not really a veritable offensive threat. Knocking down Scizor a notch for the first time in years was particularly fun. Although Genesect meta was not objectively the best, I think the positives of Genesect outweighed the negatives. People will disagree with me and call bs on my claims, but I still hold them as true.

If you've caught the drift, my best metagames are ones where many playstyles are viable. Restricted teambuilding isn't a big deal for me, as if I can pick from a subset of Pokemon and play around it, it's all good. For this reason, I think today's metagame is also very, very good. This is evidenced by the viability of previously unthought-of team styles, like sun stall, which exploits Cresselia's amazing bulk. Weatherless offense is now one of the best playstyles, while sand stall, rain stall, sand/rain balance, sand/rain/sun bulky offense, and rain/sun HO are all very viable. The variety in teams AND Pokemon impresses me, and outside of drastic measures, I think we've found a fairly solid outcome.

I can't finish this without the metagame I enjoyed most -- Excadrill meta. Sand offense was HUGE, and it has never recovered. With Excadrill gone, spinning in OU became so much worse. It was the sole reason Choice Scarfers were less prominent, which I think was a good thing! It had its counters and checks, and just brought so much to the metagame. We had another good offensive spinner. Starmie doesn't even come close, and is less bulky with a worse typing. The fact that hazard setting wasn't guaranteed for once was awesome, in my opinion. Deoxys-S and other annoying suicide leads were unthinkable with an actual spinner available. I found it less restricting on teambuilding than so much else, and the metagame without it suffered. Rain offense was viable, but not dominant -- it was on an equal footing with sand! Everything, pretty much, was viable in this metagame. The emergence of new threats to defeat Excadrill benefited diversity, and everything flourished.

2) What were your least favorite metagames?

Late BW1 was easily my least favorite. The dominance of VoltTurn was just so 'boring', and Terrakion was so stupidly powerful it wasn't even funny. The outcome of BW1 was very, very bad -- it was just a bland, unexciting metagame. Nothing was 'developing'; it was all the same old, same old. Constantly changing metagames aren't ones that ban and unban consistently. They are metagames diverse enough such that new threats rise and fall, and strategies change. Late BW1 is proof of what I fear would be the outcome of a metagame with a lot of bans.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?

The first time I got suspect reqs to vote on Deoxys-D was an incredible moment for me. It wasn't long after I finished my tutoring with Funkasaurus (I signed up to get better at the game) that I had the opportunity to ladder for reqs, and after >100 battles on a broken ladder system, I finally made it up to the 2000 Glicko2 requirement. That felt like a great accomplishment to me. It's easy now, but it wasn't then, and is definitely one of the highlights of my Pokemon career, let alone BW.

My second highlight has been working with all the people in OU QC for much of BW2. While I just recently became an official member, I have been collaborating for months, and influencing the analyses is immensely rewarding for me. Keeping information up-to-date and accurate is a matter of great importance for the whole site. Our recent initiatives have begun to make the analyses a true source of knowledge about the current metagame, which has been one of their failings all generation.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?

Throughout BW, many playstyles have been common. The most consistent, though, has been rain. From when it was beyond broken pre-Aldaron's proposal to its days with Tornadus-T to now, rain has been consistently excellent the whole generation. Rain has actual 'abusers' in the diverse group of Water-type attackers, special Electric-types, Hurricane users, and Rain Dish users. Its ability to make a whole Pokemon type (Fire) less viable in OU also warrants a mention.

Sun has definitely fluctuated throughout the generation. It peaked when Blaziken and Genesect were OU, and fell the most in Excadrill meta and Landorus meta. It has been somewhat less used during the other times, and is now somewhat common. It went from being solely HO to even full stall with Cresselia in BW2, which greatly increased its viability as a playstyle. Chlorophyll sweepers have been great nuisances for a long time, and Volcarona, Victini, and Darmanitan are brought to the forefront as extremely deadly Pokemon thanks to sun. The metagame has shifted in such a way that Volcarona and the previously unthinkable special Victini are the biggest Fire-type threats, which has been a uniquely interesting transition, imo.

Sand has always been great. BW1 saw sand abuser offense, which utilized Sand Rush Excadrill and Sand Force physical Landorus and dominated the tier. Part of this is due the fact that Tyranitar and Hippowdon are stellar Pokemon. Tyranitar has been a consistent threat. The shift from specially defensive to Band/Scarf was huge this generation, which has shifted more and more toward Pursuit trapping as a means for enabling Pokemon to sweep. Hippowdon is a titanic physical wall that is amazing for sand stall and balanced teams. It counters top threats like Terrakion and Landorus-T. It also holds the title of being the only weather inducer with reliable recovery, allowing it to easily outlast its foes. Sand today is mainly used as a counter-weather weather and to have access to Tyranitar's Pursuit trapping capabilities. However, Stoutland has become prominent as a sand abuser, as well as to a much lesser extent Sandslash, which can spin and thus in some ways fill Excadrill's shoes, though not really. VoltTurn, which was all the rage in late BW1, benefited hugely from sand's chip damage and general abundance of hazards. Finally, I can't forget sand stall, which peaked in effectiveness in late BW1 and is very viable now. Sand's chip damage and the safeguard it provides against opposing weather have contributed to the playstyle's effectiveness. With the creation and spread of Meru stall, Stoutland has been seen as a prominent revenge killer and tool to solve many of sand stall's biggest problems. Sand's evolution throughout this generation has been interesting to see, for sure.

We now come to weatherless, which was at a time...kind of bad. It was really only seen post-Genesect ban in this generation. It's been all HO, pretty much, as well, usually focused around a suicide hazard lead and multiple sweepers. I suppose the earliest incarnation of weatherless this generation was Baton Pass post-Excadrill ban. With Excadrill gone, there was a huge surge in Baton Pass usage, which has always been predominately weatherless. It even hit a simple majority suspect vote, but there was no other round of suspect testing in BW1 to finish it off. The craze eventually died out. Back to post-Genesect -- Deoxys-D was the best hazard setter in OU. Weatherless was almost synonymous with 'Deoxys-D + 5 sweepers'. After Deoxys-D was banished Custap Skarmory and Forretress shot up in usage. Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Mew have also become useful. More recently, Shuca Jirachi has become a great asset. Weatherless boils down to hazard setter + Gengar + 4 sweepers. One sweeper is usually a Dragon, and one is usually some sort of lure. Finally, speaking of Gengar -- its spinblocking abilities are needed on these teams with lots of hazards, and Jellicent loses momentum too easily. In recent times, TR + NP Cofagrigus has emerged as a good sweeper and spinblocker for these teams, boasting much more bulk and the ability to actually force out/beat Starmie. Other types of weatherless have generally been less than effective, imo.

So many Pokemon have fluctuated in usage this generation, so it's hard to pin it down to a couple... Reuniclus comes to mind immediately. Its CM set was unparalleled early this gen, singlehandedly bringing the demise of stall. The BW2 shift was not kind to it, but OTR has emerged as a great set, and CM has recently had a surge in usage. There are other mons, but going from suspect to almost unused at a point is certainly noteworthy.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?

A hard choice, but...I have to go with Terrakion. Terrakion has been an immense threat for eons now. It first emerged around the time of Blaziken's banning donning a Choice Scarf set. It could revenge kill so many top threats. In Excadrill meta, it took advantage of the Special Defense boost from sand and donned a Double Dance set with an Air Balloon to check Excadrill. It would get its Balloon broken, RP, and outspeed and kill Excadrill. Against more defensive teams, it could Swords Dance and wreck house. These sets gave way in late BW1 to Choice Band; Scarf was still common and great, but Double Dance fell in usage somewhat. The Choice Band set was an utter terror -- remember, there was no Landorus-T to handle it. SubSD Rock Gem could OHKO Gliscor at +2 with Stone Edge; it became common as well. It was suspect-worthy in the eyes of many. In BW2, it was a great Genesect check and could revenge kill Kyurem-B, so it flourished. With the release of the Salac Berry, a SubSalac SD sweeper set emerged, being very difficult to revenge kill after Salac activated. The Band set remained effective, and post-Deoxys-D, a lead Stealth Rock set even became good. Nowadays, Band and SubSalac SD are the best sets, with Garchomp generally outdoing it in the lead position, though the set still has a niche in a fast Taunt. Scarf and Double Dance have become less common, but are still effective. All in all, Terrakion, though it might be one-dimensional in moveset, is very versatile in execution, and is the breadwinner for the most consistently dangerous and effective Pokemon in BW OU.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.

I think the toughest match I've played is a tie between a friendly game with Lavos Spawn I had and my ladder battles with qSeasons this suspect test. Against qSeasons, I think I went 1-1. My matches forced me to think on a higher level and make plays I don't usually have to make. My battle against Lavos I lost, but it came down to the wire and I had fun (it was months ago...I don't remember many specifics). Battles against ben gay and his Trick Room have also been difficult. I faced him some times on the suspect ladder, and struggled to break his Porygon2 and co. I went about 2-1 against him among my alts. Every game against him was again a battle of wits and extremely difficult to win. I can't pick one because all of these stick out in my mind.

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?

Excadrill meta. Mainly because it was the first time any of my teams were actually good...but I digress. Excadrill and the sand offense it carried were so much fun to play with and against. I can accept it being banned, but I still have fond memories of that metagame.

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?

hm...I would have gotten rid of trapping. I'll say this flat: trapping takes no skill. It's so easy to trap, and I find that it being a determining factor in so many bans is very telling. I would specifically ban Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, and Pursuit. Magnet Pull is too limited and is stuck on two pretty mediocre (in all honesty) Pokemon. Sacrificing a teamslot for Magnezone/Magneton is such a huge price to pay that it doesn't meet the mark for a ban, tbh. Meanwhile, Gothitelle and even Wobbuffet are just so skill-less and stupid. They make it so easy for things to sweep. Pursuit makes so many good Pokemon liabilities; the fact that a couple entire types of Pokemon can be made useless thanks to one move is just plain dumb. Finally, Dugtrio...a Pokemon that makes Heatran shaky. A Pokemon that literally guarantees you will win weather wars. It got Genesect banned, ffs. Trapping is just so unhealthy and stupid that I would love to get rid of it entirely.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?

I've already written paragraphs about it...but Excadrill. It brings a needed spinner and would offset the dominance of rain. It has additional checks now, and giving Gliscor a niche again would be great. Providing a leg up for sand and a spinner, it would be invaluable. I find that the metagame has adapted in such ways that it can handle it better than before. I didn't think it deserved a ban in the first place...so I would bring back Excadrill.
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
bw was fun but compared to other gens its a piece of shit. i really liked it back in bw1 partly because i was naive and didnt realize how op sun/rain was yet, partly because west won wcop so i was all hyped and if anyone was like "bw isnt real meta" "lol no skill required" "fuck team preview" i would get all angry and defensive (see: like half my posts after wcop ended). then i was introduced to bkc and he poisoned my mind and made me hate the metagame i knew and loved. seriously though theres so much broken trash thats still in the ou tier even after like 2 years of suspect testing, it blows my mind. i went and played stuff like adv and dpp after wcop and began to recognize just how far behind bw was compared to those two metas in terms of metagame quality and skill to luck ratio. like honestly fuck the current meta.

uhhh most memorable moments? when phil said i could join usa west that was huge for me, never thought i would even be subbing let alone starting (thank you based loven). when we won wcop that was mad crazy and i felt really good after beating bkc in game 1 which got my team off to a good start. still hate myself for giving yee shit after losing to peachy. that was bad of me and im glad we are still friends, i was way too hard on him. first time talking to earthworm was huge. when i had a revelation after leaving my spl team and joining a different one, then realizing what a dick i was, that was a big moment. i think i have been steadily improving my character since then. and not making tour finals in season 15 was kind of the wake up call telling me that my run was over and i needed to stop playing. i got way hyped after my wcop performance and then qualified for tour 14 and everyone thought i was the next big thing, then i played like complete shit in spl and realized i was really mediocre. im rambling on and on about myself but my experiences in bw largely tie right back to how my career was going on smogon at the time. sorry about that. hope u dont see this as me being full of myself etc. (though you probably think that i am anyways)

i think the council did a good job overall with handling bw. my one complaint is that haunter and bloo in particular refused to suspect drizzle so that never got onto the community's plate at all, despite a pretty convincing call from the forum that this type of suspect test needed to occur. so that was lame. but almost every ban that has happened in bw thus far (or unban) has been a good one and i cant say i would have done a better job on the council myself. so give yourselves a hand aldaron/bloo/haunter/iconic/jabba, and also phil and earthworm i think. you played the shitty hand you were dealt by gamefreak and made the best of it.

i typed all this out and almost deleted it because im supposed to have quit right? but i cant stop coming back to offer my thoughts on stuff because i care about the community. dont really give a shit as far as the game goes. i just want to see the next generation of competitive pokemon players end up with a better metagame than the one i learned to play in. but maybe this is the natural progression of things. bye bye
 
1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?

Blaziken era was the most fun for me. Sure, Blaziken was broken as fuck but for me being best means being the most fun. Plus I'm pretty sure swift swim was still around when Blaziken was there so the clusterfuck of broken was pretty fun. Excadrill era was pretty fun because of the fact that so many people used Gliscor to counteract Excadrill and that led to more Jellicent + Gliscor + Ferrothorn cores which led to more wallbreakers being used such as Scrafty.

2) What were your least favorite metagames?

Anything after Excadrill got banned.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?

Going like 4-1 to start off in SPL2. I was one of those small forums users before then and starting out strong was pretty cool. Of course, I tanked the rest of the season, but I made enough of a name.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?

Shifted towards shittiness.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?

Latios.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.

Not any against Eo lol!

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?

BLAZIKEN

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?

Latios.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?

Excadrill...everyone's just a pussy.
 
1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?
I came into competetive pokemon at the very end of bw1 durring the huge volt-turn craze which i really enjoyed. Then was the genesect erra which had to be the best imo. Just the u-turn craziness every game which was what i was used to and it was my very favorite playstyle for a LONG time untill i found sand balance.
2) What were your least favorite metagames?
Had to be the Deo-D metagame for sure. It made it really hard for my volt-turning to happen as it was pretty impossible to stop it from getting up at least 2 layers of hazards. Plus i had no real room for rapid spin outside of forretress. Ended up killing my urge to play OU and i moved onto UU and NU.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?
There really hasnt been much that i've done tbh, I'm no ladder hero or a ladder-er in general. I did smash @oSeasons recently though, so thats a thing.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?
Tbh Rain offense took a huge hit after Torn-T got banned (Still isnt really the best weather anymore imo), Volt-Turn outside of Lando-T and Rotom-W core is pretty dead. Stall is making a comeback however but Kyurem-Black gives it a hell of alot of trouble. The best and most consistant playstyle atm imo has to be Sand offense/ balance.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?
DRAGONITE!! Not saying this because its my favorite pokemon either, Its just its always been there in bw ou, being the massive threat it is. Dragon dance set is the best dragon dancer in the teir hands down. Multiscale alone is worth using a rapid spinner on your team since its such an amazing/ semi broken ability. Lately its banded set has been apearing on weatherless teams (which FINNALY are being used again) The banded set gives alot of teams a hard time since it can wallbreak AND revenge kill with exreme speed.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.
None really, I don't really save logs and I havent played any super important matches.

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?
Volt-Turn 100% So much fun to use, it still live on today through my favorite core of all time... Landorus-T and Rotom-Wash!

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?
Sand rush!(only for ou keep that shit in ubers please) I really don't care about it since the only abusers were Excadrill who was banned and stoutland who is meh at best. Mainly because ou needs excadrill to be droped down because we really need another offensive spinner rather then starmie. Plus it would raise Jellicents useage which is always good, give an awesome pokemon more reasons to be used.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?
Genesect before people found about rock polish, just like wipe that from everyones memory. The era of scarf genesect was pretty cool imo, let me have a nuke for a U-turner while also using Landorus-I who ALSO shouldnt have gotten banned. Just saying...
 
1) What metagames do you think were the best, subjectively?

I came into BW battling at the end of the Excadrill period. After Excadrill was banned, I really liked the metagame then. Although, I'm not sure if that or the current one is the best metagame I've played in.

2) What were your least favorite metagames?

VoltTurn and Genesect caused me to leave OU battling for weeks. Then I came back once Genesect was banned.

3) What are your personal highlights of BW?

Battling idiots that let my Latias set up 6 Calm Minds. Seriously, just SWITCH YOUR DAMN KELDEO.

4) How do you think the metagame has shifted? What playstyles have become commonplace and fallen? What Pokemon have fallen and risen in effectiveness?

At first, the metagame revolved around Excadrill. I never used Excadrill in OU, but I battled once or twice before Excadrill was banned, and I know how tough it was. After the ban of Excadrill, Sand offense really took a hit. At that time, I was using a non-weather team. Then, people started using VoltTurn, and I don't know how it was because I did not play that metagame. I started playing again after the ban of Genesect. At that time I used a Rain team, with Tornadus-T. After Tornadus-T was banned, Rain was slightly less popular (only SLIGHTLY), and VoltTurn died. Since then, my team has not changed at all, and the metagame, other than stuff like Kyurem-B and Thundurus-T, is about the same as it was before the whole VoltTurn craze. I'd say that currently Rain stall is still the most popular playstyle, although Sun offense is pretty popular too.

5) What, in your opinion, has been the most consistently dangerous and excellent Pokemon in BW OU?

Breloom. At first, it was a Spore-Sub-Punch/Seed-er, which was on its own very dangerous, but after Technician came out, the metagame changed. One of the reasons I stopped using my first team (which was made just after Excadrill ban) was because of Breloom. Now, I use Breloom as a revenge killer and a wallbreaker, and I can attest to its strength. For example, its Focus Punch does ~55% to Physically Defensive Skarmory. Since it beats so much one-on-one (Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, etc.), and it has decent speed, I can usually get a Spore off, which would be really valuable if my opponent switches into Latios when I Spore.

6) What was the toughest OU battle you've ever had, and why? A general description and/or log/replay should be provided to supplement this.

I always struggle against Sun teams. However, I have won battles against them. One time, I had an opposing Venusaur kill itself with my Tentacruel's Liquid Ooze after Giga Draining it. Tentacruel also stopped his Volcarona cold earlier. However, in the end I think I won with just one Pokemon left (Breloom, I think). There are various other teams that are hard for me to face, but the hardest ones are always Sun.

7) What was your favorite metagame in this generation?

I liked the metagame after Excadrill's ban, but before BW2.

8) If you could have picked one Pokemon/move/ability and gotten rid of it besides any weather, what would it have been?

Serene Grace is SO DAMN OBNOXIOUS that the metagame would really be better without it. Jirachi wouldn't really care, since no good player uses Paraflinch, and Togekiss...well, no one really uses Togekiss in OU. Also Dunsparce is shit even in NU, without Serene Grace it'll be like Spinda, but no one cares.

9) If you could retroactively reverse any one ban in BW, what would it be and why?

I feel that banning Excadrill as a whole was unjustified. A ban on Sand Rush Excadrill would have been a lot better, as outside of Sand Rush Excadrill's only niche is Mold Breaker and Rapid Spin. It could still be viable in OU thanks to its amazing stats, but it would remove the dominance Sand Rush Excadrill had.
 

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