All Buffs and Nerfs in Pokemon Scarlet/Violet

[doipy hooves]

According to the official website, which was updated 2 days ago:
The moves a Pokémon can learn may differ between Pokémon Legends: Arceus, Pokémon Brilliant Diamond, Pokémon Shining Pearl, Pokémon Sword, Pokémon Shield, and other Pokémon games. For this reason, if a Pokémon is moved via Pokémon HOME to a game where it cannot learn its current move set, then its move set will be replaced with moves that it is able to learn in the target software.

So there may be some truth in that rumor.

I just want to say that this support website always has its pages updated recently with no sign of any actual content changes, so that part doesn't really mean anything and I think this text has been the same since it was published for PLA/BDSP's Home support.

This Spinda page on the sidebar was updated 30 minutes ago apparently despite nothing changing on that front.
https://support.pokemon.com/hc/en-us/articles/6425807283220-Why-can-t-I-withdraw-or-deposit-Spinda-into-Pokémon-Brilliant-Diamond-or-Pokémon-Shining-Pearl-

 

[Weirdhamster]

Sneasler gets unburden and fake out? So it could normal gem a fake out and get free damage and speed? That's gonna be really good competitively, and it's attack and speed stats are already so high, I'm gonna guess it's gonna be OU at least, but then again the meta changes a lot, and with the item that prevents fake out flinch it might not be as good. This meta is going to be exciting!

Hitmonlee already gets this combo from what i know, and it’s usage is really low in ou and most people that use it use it as an endure reversal sweeper with the attack boosting berry (forgot its name).

Considering that it has 120 base speed stat i don’t think that unburden will help it that much either as it already is fast and due to its low bulk, can get forced out by quite a bit of pokémon, and using fake out is a missed opportunity to have a strong hitting move on it.

Even though it gets sd poison jab and cc. It will need something like electric terrain + electric seed to try and set up but at that point i think you’re just better of going with hawlucha. It still could define tilt have potential in the metagame but i don’t think that it will be broken and meta defining but more of an off pick that could have a niche on specific teams.

 

[Fogoit]

A shame Vaporeon lost Scald and Toxic but a Substitute Calm Mind set doesn't look so bad either now;
Leafeon getting TrailBlaze is nice too but I doubt its enough.

 

[Harmless]

To throw my hat into the "removed moves" ring, I think the reason it worked that way in gen 8 is because of how different pla is and the fact that bdsp was made in unity, which made it a nightmare to add home compatibility for (I think it's something to do with the fact that swsh and pla use the same engine but not bdsp). I think it's safe to assume that scarvi are using the same engine as swsh and pla, so transfering mons should be smooth sailing. I could be totally wrong on this though lol.

 

[TheDragonTexasWarrior2001]

Your list present some already existing moves (Zangoose Belly Drum) and lacks a lot of moves which I already referenced on the global leaking sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ijn8Im8kU0QnjNyi3AJ6a5feM/edit#gid=1877548319.

Maybe you could integrate the link in your post ?

I just now do want to point out that Drednaw does lose High Horsepower (for doubles), Superpower, and Megahorn whiling i'm just now saying this last minute, better late than never

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

It does seem a lot of the moves that the mons lost may return in the future as tutor moves, as every generation has had a Move Tutor in some way, and when it does, ooh boy it's gonna be fun

 

[Worldie]

It does seem a lot of the moves that the mons lost may return in the future as tutor moves, as every generation has had a Move Tutor in some way, and when it does, ooh boy it's gonna be fun

That is one of the things I'm not 100% sure of.
Tecnically, gen 8 did not have such thing. Many moves we expected to return with "tutors", like Knock Off, Toxic, Roost, Tailwind, etc, didn't.
I mentioned it earlier, but while smogon is only paying attention to these now, VGC/BSS have not had access to wide distribution of these moves for 3 years now.
IoA did bring "tutors"... but it was only for the new moves.
Outside of the new moves and bringing back additional pokemon, neither IoA nor CT expanded any movepool from what they were at the start of the generation.
I do consider a possibility for the IoA tutors to come back (mainly to the... interestingly low distribution of some of them, and notably some having 0 learners despite being apparently coded in the game), I wouldn't hold my breath for the other things.

When I (and some others) say that the movepools won't be cut, we mainly refer to moves carried from previous gens. Most of us do not expect the actual tutors for these moves to come back (that does include Scald)

 

[Bombkirby]

The game blocks you from going online to battle/trade if a Pokemon knows an illegal move. How will the game differentiate between old timey moves that were removed from this game and hacked moves? Is there a flag for this in the files, because I'm not aware of one. Like is Pex still flagged to be compatible with Scald?

 

[R_N]

The game blocks you from going online to battle/trade if a Pokemon knows an illegal move. How will the game differentiate between old timey moves that were removed from this game and hacked moves? Is there a flag for this in the files, because I'm not aware of one. Like is Pex still flagged to be compatible with Scald?

I think they just straight up have a compatability list on their servers

see also: why this wasn't an issue in SWSH

 

[Bombkirby]

I think they just straight up have a compatability list on their servers

see also: why this wasn't an issue in SWSH

that would make sense for it to be server side.

Basically we won’t know until the day comes.

 

[Mega Misdreavus]

I think the reason it worked that way in gen 8 is because of how different pla is and the fact that bdsp was made in unity, which made it a nightmare to add home compatibility for (I think it's something to do with the fact that swsh and pla use the same engine but not bdsp).

Engine has nothing to do with this. You clearly do not know what an engine is or can do.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

That is one of the things I'm not 100% sure of.
Tecnically, gen 8 did not have such thing. Many moves we expected to return with "tutors", like Knock Off, Toxic, Roost, Tailwind, etc, didn't.
I mentioned it earlier, but while smogon is only paying attention to these now, VGC/BSS have not had access to wide distribution of these moves for 3 years now.
IoA did bring "tutors"... but it was only for the new moves.
Outside of the new moves and bringing back additional pokemon, neither IoA nor CT expanded any movepool from what they were at the start of the generation.
I do consider a possibility for the IoA tutors to come back (mainly to the... interestingly low distribution of some of them, and notably some having 0 learners despite being apparently coded in the game), I wouldn't hold my breath for the other things.

When I (and some others) say that the movepools won't be cut, we mainly refer to moves carried from previous gens. Most of us do not expect the actual tutors for these moves to come back (that does include Scald)

Regarding Scald, Game Freak clearly intended Chilling Water to be the replacement if only Volcanion and Simipour get Scald by level-up, and all of the IoA tutor moves are programmed to work. My guess is that some future NPC will be in a DLC location claiming to come from the IoA and offer all those moves in exchange for League Points

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

My only gripe with Chilling Water is the low BP. 70 or even 80 would be fine to give defensive mons some respectable chip damage without needing to sacrifice another slot for it. (And actual Water coverage for Glaceon)

I don't think it'll take off as viable move because of that, despite having a nice side-effect. -1 Atk stacks quickly if given the chance though. Who knows.

Bulky offensive mons might not run this, but I can see things that don't really do a lot of damage straight-up like Pex using it. (Unless Venoshock actually does legit damage. I wonder if it'd run both.)

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

My only gripe with Chilling Water is the low BP. 70 or even 80 would be fine to give defensive mons some respectable chip damage without needing to sacrifice another slot for it. (And actual Water coverage for Glaceon)

I don't think it'll take off as viable move because of that, despite having a nice side-effect. -1 Atk stacks quickly if given the chance though. Who knows.

Bulky offensive mons might not run this, but I can see things that don't really do a lot of damage straight-up like Pex using it. (Unless Venoshock actually does legit damage. I wonder if it'd run both.)

tbf no one ran Scald for damage output. It was always to fish for burns lol

 

[Worldie]

tbf no one ran Scald for damage output. It was always to fish for burns lol

While true, that doesn't mean that the damage wasn't there. Expecially for defensive pokes, while obviously mainly fishing for burns, the chip damage was all but welcome.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Unaware Mon with not just Spikes. Nor Toxic Spikes. But all 3 AND Stealth Rock

Sv gonna be a different meta (also woopa too gets these 3 moves)

 

[Karxrida]

tbf no one ran Scald for damage output. It was always to fish for burns lol

Not entirely true? It still has 80 Base Power. Offensive Waters like Keldeo did appreciate a safe and decently strong STAB option if they didn't want to risk a miss on Hydro Pump.

Like yeah the Burn chance was amazing and the main reason you were running it over Surf, but you're still likely chunking the opponent in the process.

 

[ezlaturbo]

Mew loses Roat?

 

[Jaetheho]

Not entirely true? It still has 80 Base Power. Offensive Waters like Keldeo did appreciate a safe and decently strong STAB option if they didn't want to risk a miss on Hydro Pump.

Like yeah the Burn chance was amazing and the main reason you were running it over Surf, but you're still likely chunking the opponent in the process.

That's a bit disingenuous to say that keldeo ran scald to have a STAB option that had perfect accuracy.

If that were the only reason, he had surf. As do most other waters.

Keldeo ran that because that burn chase was something that was very valuable in facing its counters

 

[FJavier01]

The buffs are from interesting to good, but the nerfs are horrible. Some of them aren't even racional. Literally most of the competitive pokémon lost Knock Off. Is better to remove the move if that's the case. Also, why make scald an exclusive move of a legendary if the move existed since before the pokémon AND the legendary already has a signature move similar but better than scald. And what disliked me the most, why take out Umbreon's Toxic if the descriptions of the pokédex says that it naturally segregates poison. They also took away one of Flareon's best moves.

If we thought not having national dex was horrible for competitive now we are waiting with the mouth open to worse. Some walls can't be broken with just strong moves.

 

[termi]

Mew loses Roat?

Yes.

 

[BluewolfZ]

- Blissey lost Toxic, Wish and Teleport

 

[TheDragonTexasWarrior2001]

Your list present some already existing moves (Zangoose Belly Drum) and lacks a lot of moves which I already referenced on the global leaking sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ijn8Im8kU0QnjNyi3AJ6a5feM/edit#gid=1877548319.

Maybe you could integrate the link in your post ?

i know that it's late, but add in Bulldoze for Breloom and Super Fang and Wide Guard for Chesnaught

 

[Kazeiyuu]

i know that it's late, but add in Bulldoze for Breloom and Super Fang and Wide Guard for Chesnaught

oh Bulldoze + Technician is actually pretty cool

 

[Shikinoyume]

Its not a big deal in Showdown, because we have access to egg moves, but maaaaaan- wtf is Blissey even supposed to do in the actual game?…
- lost aromatherapy, wish and toxic?

In game she now lives and dies by weather or not her seismic toss and heal bell parents actually get added into the game to pass them to her via breeding…
(Which looks like didnt happen in S/V, so shes just dead lol…)

Never seen a Pokémon get gutted so hard in my life