Gen 3 ADV Vaporeon (QC 1/2) (GP 0/2)

ADV Vaporeon (Vaporeon for OU!)

:Vaporeon:

[OVERVIEW]

Vaporeon has evolved into one of the more unique candidates in the tier for both its bulk and its access to Baton Pass. Vaporeon has one of the highest base HP stats in ADV and can easily make 101 HP Substitutes unbreakable by one Seismic Toss with little investment. With its Water typing, high base SpA, and solid coverage, Vaporeon can be an excellent enabler for offensive teams by leveraging its power to set up a 101 HP Substitute for a teammate on special walls such as Blissey and Jirachi lacking Electric-type coverage. As a lead, offensive Vaporeon can survive strong hits such as Choice Band Salamence’s HP Flying, Dragon Dance Tyranitar +1 Rock Slide, and Zapdos’s Thunderbolt easily and retaliate with a strong Hydro Pump or Ice Beam. Vaporeon with a Timid nature can even use these strong attacks to get a Salac Berry boost and outspeed everything except Aerodactyl and Jolteon. These qualities cement Vaporeon as a strong candidate on momentum-based offensive teams by passing a bulky Substitute to sweepers, such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar and Calm Mind + Baton Pass Celebi.

Vaporeon can run a defensive set to be a general check to threats like Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Aerodactyl, Moltres, Swampert, and especially Suicune. Vaporeon’s access to Wish, Haze, and its Water Absorb ability alongside its bulk give it some unique qualities—it notably is the only bulky Water-type with access to Wish, while its immunity to Water-type attacks neuters offensive Water-types such as Suicune and Swampert. Its other competition for that role—Milotic, Suicune, and Swampert—force other teammates to carry Wish and are less ironclad checks to Suicune. Vaporeon can also run bulkier Baton Pass sets focused on passing Wish or Acid Armor to enable larger Baton Pass chains or to provide physical backbone to the team.

Offensive Vaporeon main flaws lie in its propensity to get overwhelmed due to its low base defense stat, while defensive Vaporeon is extremely vulnerability to status and its two-turn recovery can be exploited. While offensive Vaporeon can live boosted attacks, it can often only do this once—using it often opens up the team to physical threats such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Dragon Dance Salamence, and Metagross even if it slightly weakened. Especially if it holds Salac Berry, Vaporeon will get worn down quite quickly and, due to its low Defense stat, can take large damage from even weaker physical attacks like Swampert’s Earthquake. Defensive Vaporeon's healing ability is highly unreliable compared to the other bulky Water-types. Vaporeon cannot heal from status effects as it is too defensively weak to run Rest. This flaw is compounded by Vaporeon's need to expend two turns to heal with Wish + Protect; unlike Milotic using Recover, it receives two turns of damage from burn, Toxic, and Leech Seed, and has a higher chance of failing from full paralysis. Unlike Swampert, Vaporeon's lack of sand immunity denies it recovery on Protect, giving the opponent a turn to switch at no cost. Vaporeon's defensive set is also passive; it is vulnerable to being set up on by Skarmory, Cloyster, or Forretress using Spikes.

[SET]
name: Offensive SubPass
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Ice Beam / Roar
item: Leftovers / Salac Berry
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 16 HP / 240 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Offensive Vaporeon combination of power, ability to make 101 HP Substitutes, and decent speed tier allow it to be one of the only Pokemon to threaten the five common leads in ADV (Tyranitar, Zapdos if it carries a Salac Berry, Salamence, Metagross, and Skarmory) while also setting up a teammate if Vaporeon chooses to pass a Substitute.

Hydro Pump is the crux of this set, as Vaporeon has the highest SpA stat of Water-types in OU. Hydro Pump OHKOes bulkless Tyranitar and even threaten to OHKO a huge portion of Tyranitar that do invest in bulk, 2HKOes Metagross as well as Skarmory and Swampert with a Modest nature, and 3HKOes offensive Snorlax in sand. Ice Beam allows Vaporeon to handle Ice-weak Water-type responses, such as Salamence, Celebi, Zapdos, and Venusaur while also being a 100% accurate move. Vaporeon generally threatens at least a 2HKO on most of the metagame that doesn’t resist its coverage or is specially bulky, and as such, can set up a Substitute on their switch-out to alleviate prediction and possibly Baton Pass the Substitute. Substitute also partially alleviates Vaporeon’s weakness to status, Explosion, and Leech Seed, as well as takes advantage of Blissey and defensive Jirachi lacking Electric-type coverage. From here, Vaporeon can then use Baton Pass to pass the Substitute to a sweeper or can dry pass to a counter if it can’t keep up a Substitute, such as against Zapdos, Celebi, or Snorlax. Vaporeon can also use Roar, as one of the common answers to this set is a defensive Roar Suicune, as well as Roar Swampert and Skarmory.

As mentioned, Vaporeon can survive all kinds of strong hits in range to activate the Salac Berry—as an example, Modest Zapdos’s Thunderbolt has only a 1/16 chance to OHKO this Vaporeon, whereas more defensive variants are outsped and take large amounts of damage from two hits of Ice Beam. If one wants more midgame utility, Leftovers prevents this Vaporeon from being worn down by sand and gives it the ability to make more Substitutes. However, Salac Berry allows Vaporeon to take advantage of Zapdos and potentially even pass the speed boost. Generally, Salac Berry variants run Ice Beam to best take advantage of weakening offensive Zapdos and KOing Salamence, while Leftovers versions can run either Ice Beam or Roar depending on how much the team is bothered by Roar Suicune, Skarmory, or Swampert.

Vaporeon generally runs Timid max speed with this set to maximize how many Pokemon it can set up on. A fully invested Vaporeon hits 251 speed, outspeeding Tyranitar and slower base 100s such as defensive versions of Zapdos, Jirachi, and Celebi and everything in OU besides Jolteon and Aerodactyl after a Salac Berry boost. A Timid nature also is very helpful for defensive Celebi, Toxic defensive Jirachi, and offensive Claydol without a boost as well as Starmie, Dugtrio, Dragon Dance Tyranitar, and offensive Gengar with the Salac Berry boost. A Modest nature outspeeds everything up a neutral Tyranitar and Swampert while giving favorable damage rolls for Tyranitar, Swampert, Skarmory, and Snorlax. However, Vaporeon also has the option to invest into its defense to better take physical attacks. An example EV spread is 16 HP / 88 Def / 152 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature, which lives Adamant Choice Band Salamence HP Flying with enough HP to make a Substitute. Vaporeon can also use 12 SpD EVs to survive Modest Zapdos's Thunderbolt guaranteed. As Vaporeon only needs 16 HP EVs to make four 101 HP Subsitutes, there are many different possible EV spreads—just make sure not to drop SpA too much to make sure Vaporeon is still threatening enough to get off the SubPass.

Team Options
========

Vaporeon is largely fairly self-sufficient. One of the main reasons to use Vaporeon is to take advantage of the 101 HP Substitute and early momentum that it provides. These partners can be divided into four catagories: physical set up sweepers and their support, special chains based around Celebi, Focus Punch users, and trappers.

As Vaporeon easily gets a Substitute on Jirachi and Blissey lacking Electric-type coverage, physical sweepers such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Dragon Dance Salamence, and Dragon Dance Gyarados are good partners. Dragon Dance + Hidden Power Grass Tyranitar stands out as a partner because the passed Substitute protects it from Swampert's attacks, allowing it to 2HKO Swampert safely. This paves the way for other physical sweepers like Aerodactyl and Dragon Dance Salamence. Dragon Dance Salamence especially takes advantage of defensive Jirachi and Celebi, as defensive Jirachi can't break the Substitute, while Celebi needs Psychic and is greatly threatened by Salamence. A +2 Salamence outspeeds and threatens much of the tier. With Roar, Vaporeon can generate momentum against Roar Suicune, the only common phazer that Vaporeon cannot hit hard. Vaporeon also fits alongside Swords Dance + Baton Pass Celebi, as it can provide the early momentum needed for Swords Dance Celebi to set up and give the boosts to Dragon Dance Gyarados or Agility Metagross while providing the defensive help against Salamence, Moltres, and Charizard. Vaporeon can also sacrifice itself to weaken Roar Zapdos and Jolteon in range of Celebi’s attacks. If Zapdos's Thunderbolt places it in range of Salac Berry, can even pass the boost to Celebi as well. While rare, Ninjask also benefits from Vaporeon's ability to lure and chip these phazers, which it can take out and then pass its boosts.

Vaporeon also fits well on Baton Pass chains focused around Zapdos and Celebi, as it can continue the chain with its own Baton Pass and provide some physical backbone against Tyranitar, Salamence, Flygon, and Metagross. Celebi provides an answer to Zapdos should Vaporeon not want to sacrifice itself and can pass Calm Mind to make Vaporeon more powerful. Zapdos can pass Agility to make Vaporeon faster than everything while providing a soft check to opposing Zapdos. Vaporeon’s powerful Hydro Pump can also weaken Snorlax, a common check to these teams due to its special bulk and strong physically offensive presence. Common choices alongside these Pokemon include Jirachi, Raikou, Gengar, and mixed Metagross, while Porygon2 can provide some additional defensive backbone should Vaporeon be weakened. Gengar can even carry Focus Punch to power through Blissey and Snorlax. These types of special offense typically forgo Dugtrio to set up one threat with a multiple Calm Mind or Substitute head start to overwhelm the opposing special walls like Blissey and Jirachi.

Vaporeon can also maximize damage in the short term by passing to strong Focus Punch users such as Heracross, Breloom, Medicham, and Snorlax. Heracross and Medicham can KO every Pokemon in the game with their coverage and Focus Punch behind a 101 HP Substitute while Breloom guarantees a free Spore + Focus Punch. Snorlax greatly threatens all common Vaporeon checks and can KO much of the tier with Focus Punch + coverage move. These partners typically do not appear in a full chain; they commonly appear alongside Zapdos to further generate momentum and another stronger check to Rock-types such as Flygon and Swampert. Another common partner on these types of teams is Charizard, as it can take advantage of the Substitute to terrorize Toxic, Sandstorm, and Spikes (TSS) teams, while Vaporeon invalidates Milotic and other bulky Water-types that neutralize Charizard.

Vaporeon also can fit alongside trappers such as Magneton and Dugtrio; one of the common ways to deny Vaporeon a Substitute for Toxic, Sandstorm, and Spikes (TSS) teams is phaze Vaporeon out with Skarmory. Vaporeon can easily facilitate Magneton’s entry. This is especially helpful alongside the physical sweepers mentioned in the second paragraph. Vaporeon can also pass to Dugtrio to easily eliminate Blissey and Jirachi; however, one should be careful of the defensive deficiencies of this partnership to Dragon Dance Gyarados and Salamence.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect
move 3: Surf
move 4: Haze / Roar
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Defensive Vaporeon distinguishes itself from other defensive Water-types Milotic, Suicune, Swampert with Wish and Haze; alongside its Water immunity, it most notably is the hardest counter to most Suicune. Vaporeon's Wish lets it heal up itself and its teammates. Despite this, Vaporeon can sometimes struggle to pass Wish. With full investment, Vaporeon has almost identical overall bulk to Milotic; as such, it is vulnerable to strong physical attackers such as Choice Band and Dragon Dance variants of Salamence and Tyranitar, Choice Band Metagross, and Choice Band Aerodactyl should Vaporeon pass Wish instead of heal itself against these Pokemon. Additionally, Vaporeon has to use Protect to reliably heal with Wish—this is a major liability, as although Vaporeon can scout for Explosion and generate extra turns for passive damage with Protect, it must use two moveslots. Vaporeon’s method of healing isn’t immediate and can be easily taken advantage of due to how telegraphed it is, via phasing it out as it uses Wish to prevent healing, taking advantage of a free switch, or setting up on it. Additionally, should Vaporeon use Wish at low health, it can faint because it can't heal poison, burn, or sand damage in one turn. Vaporeon's lack of Rock-type resistance, vulnerability to sand, and average bulk leads it to these situations more often than its competition.

Vaporeon can retaliate against sweepers and tanks with its last two slots. Vaporeon has a fairly strong Surf; unlike Milotic and more defensive variants of Suicune and Swampert, it is very favored to OHKO Aerodactyl while easily 2HKOing Tyranitar and 3HKOing non bulky Metagross. Vaporeon's Haze allows it to wall most Suicune, and act as an emergency check against Dragon Dance Salamence and Curse Snorlax. Note that Vaporeon should not be the first line of defense against the latter two as Salamence can flinch with Rock Slide and Snorlax can paralyze with Body Slam; both can also easily PP stall Vaporeon. Haze is often the best choice in the last slot to neutralize Suicune while Vaporeon outspeeds Curse Snorlax and can Haze it before it uses a boosted attack. Haze is also nice against teams built around passing multiple boosts. Roar is valuable to spread more passive damage and remove opposing Substitutes; however, beware of Suicune's faster Roar. Vaporeon generally needs all the physical bulk it can get; however, it can also spare a few Def EVs for SpD to better survive strong special coverage.

Team Options
========

This Vaporeon must have specific help from its teammates, as it has critical flaws that make it harder to fit on teams than Milotic, Swampert, and Suicune. The number one support Vaporeon appreciates is Heal Bell support from Blissey or Celebi—without this, Vaporeon will succumb to Toxic rather easily. Other status conditions are also painful for Vaporeon, as paralysis makes it more difficult to pass Wish and burn damage can accumulate due to the two-turn nature of Wish. In return, Vaporeon can provide a strong answer to Rest Suicune that Blissey can commonly struggle with, while also providing Wish support and an answer to physical threats as well. The second form of support Vaporeon appreciates is Rapid Spin support. Even with its fairly strong Surf, Vaporeon typically is set-up bait for Spikes users such as Cloyster, Skarmory, and Forretress. The Rapid Spin user of choice is usually Claydol or Forretress, as Starmie doesn’t fit well with Vaporeon. Claydol also provides a needed back-up answer to Rock-types, as Vaporeon can succumb to untimely flinches from Aerodactyl and Dragon Dance Tyranitar’s +1 Rock Slide. Claydol also appreciates Heal Bell and Wish support to handle Rapid Spinning against Toxic or Drill Peck Skarmory repeatedly. On the other hand, Forretress provides both Spikes and Rapid Spin—Vaporeon does not appreciate Gengar, and as Forretress also appreciates Pursuit trapping support to remove to Rapid Spin efficiently, this pairing provides a lot of utility. Forretress also appreciates Wish support, as it can get worn down quickly from the Spikes it needs to remove and Skarmory's Drill Peck, attacks from opposing Forretress, and Starmie's Water-type attacks.

All Pokemon in the game appreciate Wish support; however, some Pokemon get worn down more easily than others. Sand vulnerable Pokemon that lack immediate recovery such as Curse + Rest Snorlax, Choice Band Salamence, and Moltres really appreciate Wish to stay healthy in longer games. Additionally, wallbreakers that are just bulky enough to have defensive responsibility, such as Metagross, Gengar, and Hariyama function more effectively with Wish support, as they can take the extra hit needed to open up the opposing team only to be healed later by Wish. Skarmory also greatly appreciates Wish, as it can be worn down by Choice Band Metagross, offensive Swampert, and Tyranitar as it sets up Spikes. Wish allows it to stay healthy to wall threats such as Snorlax, Metagross, and physical Salamence throughout the game.

Vaporeon typically is featured on stall teams and defensive Toxic, Sandstorm, and Spikes (TSS) teams, and appreciates added ways to do damage to the opponent. Spikes help in these more drawn out games—both Skarmory and Forretress work here, as while both appreciate Vaporeon's proficiency against offensive Water-types, Skarmory's superior defensive utility and Forretress's prowess as a Rapid Spinner support Vaporeon. Tyranitar's sand and offensive power can really help against Snorlax, as it is one of the set up sweepers that beats Vaporeon. Bulky physical Tyranitar can threaten the special walls that neutralize Vaporeon, while Pursuit Tyranitar can eliminate Gengar that annoys Vaporeon with burn and super-effective coverage. Vaporeon's Wish can help keep Tyranitar healthy against special offensive threats that set up on Vaporeon, such as Calm Mind Jirachi and Celebi. Another great teammate is Hariyama, as bulky variants with Knock Off can provide a strong check to Tyranitar sets that can break through Vaporeon, such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Choice Band Tyranitar, or Tyranitar with Electric-type coverage. As Vaporeon's play style can lead to longer games, Knock Off is a potent wallbreaking tool against opposing Pokemon such as a Magneton + Claydol pairing that can neutralize the damage from Spikes. Moltres also fits nicely alongside Vaporeon, as it can provide an excellent answer to Celebi that can freely gain momentum off of Vaporeon with Leech Seed. Moltres also is a secondary pivot against Metagross and can protect it from Explosion. As Moltres is very vulnerable against opposing Suicune, Vaporeon can facilitate teams substituting Moltres instead of more sure checks to Suicune such as Zapdos.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Vaporeon is a staple of teams based around chaining multiple boosts to a sweeper such as Marowak. On these teams, Vaporeon passes 101 HP Subsitutes, Acid Armor, and sometimes Wish while also making sure the chain doesn’t fall to strong physical attackers such as Metagross, Salamence, Tyranitar, and even Heracross. Speed passing is a critical component to the chain, as not only does it allow Vaporeon to Acid Armor or Substitute before taking damage, it also can now Roar before opposing Roar Pokemon such as Suicune and Skarmory to keep its boosts. Some other Pokemon that appear on these chains include Ninjask and Agility + Baton Pass Zapdos to make Vaporeon faster than everything, Magneton to prevent Skarmory from ruining the chain, as well as Calm Mind + Baton Pass Celebi and Calm Mind + Baton Pass + Taunt Hypno to give Vaporeon more SpD to facilitate passing. Vaporeon can also pass Wish alone on the defensive set by adding Baton Pass over Haze or Protect; however, losing either of these option makes defensive Vaporeon worse at walling what it needs to. These chains are very high risk, high reward strategies due to one mistake or unexpected move can ruin the chain and possibly lose the game.

Other than these, Vaporeon doesn’t have very many other options not mentioned. Vaporeon can add Ice Beam to its defensive set to be a better Salamence counter, Hidden Power Electric for Gyarados and other Water-types, as well as Charm or Toxic to better counter threats that might shrug off Surf, especially Snorlax in the case of Charm. However, none of these are as effective as Haze and Roar universally. Vaporeon can also run more offensive Acid Armor passing sets to pass defensive boosts to a set-up threat such as Raikou or Tyranitar to better protect them from strong physical attacks.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Bulky Electric-types**: Specially bulky Electric-types such as Zapdos, Jolteon, and even Lanturn are perhaps the best counters in the game for Vaporeon. If Zapdos doesn’t invest in SpA, it won’t even activate the Salac Berry and can barely tank two Ice Beams. Jolteon does not appreciate Hydro Pump, but can easily outspeed and break the Substitute even after a Salac Berry boost. Lanturn is perhaps the best of these due to resisting Hydro Pump, but it might cede momentum to Vaporeon due to being outsped.

**Special Walls**: Vaporeon’s Hydro Pump can generally be sponged pretty easily against special walls like Blissey, Snorlax, Jirachi, Celebi, and Regice. However, because Vaporeon can pass bulky Substitutes and commonly will outspeed these Pokemon, one needs to be careful of giving Vaporeon momentum via Wish passing or SubPass. Celebi is perhaps the best of these, as it can tank the Ice Beam relatively easily while only needed a few EVs to outspeed Vaporeon and break the Substitute with Grass-type coverage. Snorlax can similar break the Substitute and threaten the receiver with strong attacks or Self-Destruct once it breaks the Substitute. Blissey and Jirachi can surprise Vaporeon if they run Electric-type coverage, as it will easily break the Substitute. Additionally, Blissey and Jirachi can still predict what can come in and break the Substitute—Metagross can't hold even a 101 HP Substitute against Blissey's Fire-type coverage or Jirachi's Fire Punch as an example.

**Status**: All Vaporeon are heavily crippled by status, as it can’t afford to run Rest and doesn’t have access to Refresh. Toxic on a Pokemon Vaporeon is supposed to check like Swampert, Suicune, or Metagross is a great way to force status on defensive Vaporeon. Even paralysis and burn cripple Vaporeon, as its Wish recovery needs two turns to pull off.

**Grass-types**: Celebi, Jolly Breloom, and Venusaur can stomach Hydro Pump and threaten Vaporeon or at least prevent the Wish or Substitute + Baton Pass. However, all get hit hard by Ice Beam.

**Bulky phazers**: Should offensive Vaporeon lack Roar, it is vulnerable losing the Substitute to phasers such as Suicune, Skarmory, and Swampert. While Vaporeon comfortably phazes defensive Suicune, it can still be outsped and phazed by offensive Suicune.

**Residual damage**: Offensive Vaporeon isn't especially bulky—most of its defensive benchmarks, such as Tyranitar’s +1 Rock Slide, Salamence +1 Hidden Power Flying, and Heracross’s Megahorn, are neutralized once it uses Substitute, especially in sand. Defensive Vaporeon can be taken advantage easily since it can't recover immediately. Example of this are phasing it as it uses Wish, fainting due to burn or sand, or an opponent setting up as it is forced to Protect.

**Porygon2**: While Porygon2 can also be setup fodder for SubPass or Wish pass, it does have access to Trace to heal from Vaporeon’s Water-type coverage.


[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[johnnyg2, 57904 ]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[vapicuno, 5454], [, ]]
 
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Is there any reason that the offensive subpass set doesn't run 16HP/12SpDef as standard to guarantee surviving modest zapdos tbolt? Taking the EVs from Special Attack doesn't seem to change any of the offensive benchmarks, and timid zap still knocks you into range to activate salac.
 
I mean, you could. Off vap’s evs are very flexible beyond the 16 hp and making it strong. I’ve used all kinds of small defense investment to live attacks like cb medi brick break for example. Modest max sp attack zap is pretty rare these days, and the roll is 15/16 in your favor any way, so I didn’t think it was necessary, but all power to you if you run it
 

vapicuno

你的价值比自己想象中的所有还要低。我却早已解脱,享受幸福
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Is there any reason that the offensive subpass set doesn't run 16HP/12SpDef as standard to guarantee surviving modest zapdos tbolt? Taking the EVs from Special Attack doesn't seem to change any of the offensive benchmarks, and timid zap still knocks you into range to activate salac.
taking away evs from spatk does decrease your odds of 1hkoing ttar with hydro pump. that said, i think 12spdef is probably a good idea because the cost of losing vaporeon is a lot higher than the cost of not ohkoing ttar.
 

vapicuno

你的价值比自己想象中的所有还要低。我却早已解脱,享受幸福
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I'll do the checks on remaining sections in due time yeah

ADV Vaporeon (Vaporeon for OU!)

:Vaporeon:

[OVERVIEW]

Vaporeon has evolved into one of the more unique candidates in the tier for both its bulk and its access to Baton Pass. Vaporeon has one of the highest base HP stats in ADV and as such can easily make 101 HP Substitutes unbreakable by one Seismic Toss with little investment. With its Water typing, high base SpA, and solid coverage, Vaporeon can be an excellent enabler for offensive teams by leveraging its power to set up a 101 HP Substitute for a teammate on special walls such as Blissey and Jirachi lacking Electric-type coverage. Offensive Vaporeon sets can tank hits such as Choice Band Salamence’s HP Flying, Dragon Dance Tyranitar +1 Rock Slide, and Zapdos’s Thunderbolt easily and retaliate with a strong Hydro Pump or Ice Beam. Vaporeon with a Timid nature can even use these strong attacks to get a Salac Berry boost and outspeed everything except Aerodactyl and Jolteon. These qualities cement Vaporeon’s status as a strong candidate for a lead or otherwise on momentum-based offensive teams focused on passing Calm Mind or other sweepers.

Additionally, Vaporeon can run a defensive set take advantage of its bulk to be a general check to threats like Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Aerodactyl, Moltres, Swampert, and especially Suicune. (using "Additionally" makes it sound like vaporeon can both fire off powerful stuff and check stuff well, especially given your mention of wish and haze later on, whereas the reality is that it can't hold the offensive and defensive sets/investment simultaneously; the offensive set is not that much of a check to anything - the way you described it in the first paragraph as "tank hits" suffices for describing the defensive properties of the offensive set) Vaporeon’s access to Wish, Haze, and its Water Absorb ability alongside its bulk give it some unique qualities — it notably is the only bulky Water-type with access to Wish, while its immunity to Water-type attacks neuters offensive Water-types such as Suicune and Swampert. Its other competition for that role — Milotic, Suicune, and Swampert — force other teammates to carry Wish and are more vulnerable to opposing Suicune. Vaporeon can also run bulkier Baton Pass sets focused on passing Wish or Acid Armor to enable larger Baton Pass chains or to provide physical backbone to the team.

Offensive Vaporeon main flaws lie in its extreme vulnerability to status and its propensity to get overwhelmed due to its low base defense stat for offensive sets, while defensive Vaporeon is extremely vulnerability to status (I feel that offvap doesn't care that much about status relative to other offenses, in the sense that this isn't a very actionable point. you would probably ice beam a zap if you know you're getting twaved since you can't switch out easily, or you would trade hydro on skarm with toxic to prepare ddtar for example. i'm not going out of the way to avoid status on offvap, compared to say zap, which i would pivot out just to avoid it getting para'd. maybe that's just how i use it?) opponents can take advantage of Vaporeon's and its two-turn recovery can be exploited. Vaporeon cannot afford to run Rest and unlike Milotic, does not learn Refresh. As such, Vaporeon detests Toxic, while both burn and paralysis limit its ability to check what it needs to. (reordering so that offensive and defensive points are grouped together)While offensive Vaporeon can live boosted attacks, it can often only do this once — the opportunity cost of running it over other bulky Water-type Pokemon such as Suicune or Swampert often can leave its teammates overwhelmed by physical threats. Especially if it holds Salac Berry, Vaporeon will get worn down quite quickly and, due to its low Defense stat, can take large damage from even weaker physical attacks like Swampert’s Earthquake. Defensive Vaporeon cannot afford to run Rest and unlike Milotic, does not learn Refresh. As such, Vaporeon detests Toxic, while both burn and paralysis limit its ability to check what it needs to. Defensive Vaporeon has to rely on the Wish + Protect combo to heal and is not immune to sand, and as such, is vulnerable to opponents taking advantage of the Protect turn or to residual damage (I don't understand this) while healing. Vaporeon also is quite vulnerable to being set up on by Skarmory, Cloyster, or Forretress using Spikes, while Suicune will eventually beat Haze Vaporeon with Pressure to PP stall Haze (I don't think I'd phrase it that Suicune beats vap. In fact, I think it's the other way round. Defensive vap teams usually have a (or two) special walls which means vap can haze, pivot around, and come back to haze again. In the end, it is defensive vap that is pp stalling cune by switching around).

[SET]
name: Offensive SubPass
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Ice Beam / Roar
item: Leftovers / Salac Berry
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 16 HP / 240 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Offensive Vaporeon combination of power, ability to make 101 HP Substitutes, and decent speed tier allow it to be one of the only Pokemon to threaten the five common leads in ADV (Tyranitar, Zapdos if it carries a Salac Berry, Salamence, Metagross, and Skarmory) while also setting up a teammate if Vaporeon chooses to pass a Substitute.

Hydro Pump is the crux of this set, as Vaporeon has the highest SpA stat of Water-types in OU. Hydro Pump OHKOes bulkless Tyranitar and even threaten to OHKO a huge portion of lead Tyranitar that have max HP. that don’t invest heavily in bulk, It 2HKOes Metagross as well as Skarmory and Swampert with a Modest nature, and 3HKOes offensive Snorlax in sand. It also makes Vaporeon a strong answer to Moltres and Charizard, which typically heavily threatens Vaporeon’s teammates. Ice Beam allows Vaporeon to handle Ice-weak Water answers, such as Salamence, Celebi, Zapdos, and Venusaur while also being a 100% accurate move if one can’t risk a miss. Vaporeon generally threatens a 2HKO on most of the metagame that doesn’t resist its coverage or is specially bulky, and as such, can set up a Substitute on the switch (to alleviate prediction and possibly to be passed; you might want to think about how to integrate this point about passing to the one two sentences down. It's probably fine to mention it twice, idk). Substitute also partially alleviates Vaporeon’s weakness to status and Leech Seed, as well as takes advantage of Blissey and defensive Jirachi lacking Electric-type coverage due to their inability to break Vaporeon’s Substitutes with Seismic Toss and Body Slam, respectively. From here, Vaporeon can then use Baton Pass to pass the Substitute to a sweeper or can dry pass to a counter if it can’t keep up a Substitute, such as against Zapdos, Celebi, or Snorlax. (mention sub also protects vap from booms)As another option over Ice Beam, Vaporeon can also use Roar, as one of the common answers to this set is a defensive Roar Suicune, as well as Roar Swampert and Skarmory. Ice Beam isn’t strictly necessary, as Salamence will typically respect Ice Beam whereas Vaporeon is threatened heavily by Zapdos, Celebi, and Venusaur (I don't understand this sentence. It seems like you're saying Ice Beam isn't necessary but zap/cel/venu threaten vap?). Generally, Salac Berry variants run Ice Beam to best take advantage of weakening offensive Zapdos and KOing Salamence, while Leftovers versions can run either Ice Beam or Roar depending on how much the team is bothered by Roar Suicune, Skarmory, or Swampert.
(paragraph break)
As mentioned, Vaporeon can survive all kinds of strong hits in range to activate the Salac Berry &mdash as an example, Modest Zapdos’s Thunderbolt has only a 1/16 chance to OHKO this Vaporeon, whereas more defensive variants are outsped and take large amounts of damage from two hits of Ice Beam. If one wants more midgame utility, Leftovers prevents this Vaporeon from being worn down by sand and gives it the ability to make more Substitutes. Typically, Salac Berry variants are run as leads on hyper offensive teams, whereas Leftovers are run on more momentum-based teams, such as those focused around passing Calm Mind (Don't momentum based and hyper offense kind of mean the same thing? Realistically, I think both can be used on more balancey offense or HO, with the condition that if leading with leftovers, should have a zap pivot, else without a zap pivot, should not lead leftovers vap. Separately, mention that sometimes, the salac boost can be passed).

Vaporeon generally runs Timid max speed with this set to maximize how many Pokemon it can set up on. A fully invested Vaporeon hits 251 speed, outspeeding slower base 100s such as defensive versions of Zapdos, Jirachi, and Celebi as well as anything slower than a max invested Tyranitar and everything in OU besides Jolteon and Aerodactyl after a Salac Berry boost. (I think a clearer relative distinction has to be made here. The specific things that Timid really helps with are defensive Celebi, Toxic Rachi, and offensive Claydol without boost, Dugtrio, Starmie, and offensive Gengar with boost). A Modest nature outspeeds everything up a neutral Tyranitar and Swampert while giving favorable damage rolls for Tyranitar, Swampert, Skarmory, and Snorlax. However, Vaporeon also has the option to invest into its defense to better take physical attacks. An example EV spread is 16 HP / 88 Def / 152 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature, which lives Adamant Choice Band Salamence HP Flying with enough HP to make a Substitute. As Vaporeon only needs 16 HP EVs to make four 101 HP Subsitutes, there are many different possible EV spreads — one just needs to make sure not to drop SpA too much to make sure Vaporeon is still threatening enough to get off the SubPass. (also add the alternate spread of having some sp.def for modest zap)
 
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Thanks for looking at it so far! I have largely added your changes, I did have some questions

Defensive Vaporeon has to rely on the Wish + Protect combo to heal and is not immune to sand, and as such, is vulnerable to opponents taking advantage of the Protect turn or to residual damage (I don't understand this) while healing.
What I wanted to get at was that bc you need to wait a turn to heal, if you're burned, poisoned, or sand is up and you're at like 10%, you'll die before the wish connects, while w softboiled or recover, you'll heal that health before you die. Is there a better way to word this?

(to alleviate prediction and possibly to be passed; you might want to think about how to integrate this point about passing to the one two sentences down. It's probably fine to mention it twice, idk).
I have added
Vaporeon generally threatens at least a 2HKO on most of the metagame that doesn’t resist its coverage or is specially bulky, and as such, can set up a Substitute on their switch-out to alleviate prediction and possibly Baton Pass the Substitute.
to try to address that, what do you think? I think you might also be using an older draft too? But its a good point, lemme know if it works/flows well

I don't understand this sentence. It seems like you're saying Ice Beam isn't necessary but zap/cel/venu threaten vap?).
I agree, I got rid of it

(Don't momentum based and hyper offense kind of mean the same thing? Realistically, I think both can be used on more balancey offense or HO, with the condition that if leading with leftovers, should have a zap pivot, else without a zap pivot, should not lead leftovers vap. Separately, mention that sometimes, the salac boost can be passed).
The way I was thinking about it was that either you're doing Calm Mind passing w Celebi in momentum-based, and for HO I'm more think that DD Spam Mag offense you innovated or spikeless mixed offense w vap over like endpert. Does the way I wrote it now make sense? I more just got rid of the point and emphasized the point about weakening zap and the speed boost stuff. I also added the speed tiers in the last paragraph you looked at
 

vapicuno

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I haven't taken a look at your comments yet unfortunately, but let me do the following first. More will come soon.

Blue = add
Red = delete
Green = comments

Team Options
========

Vaporeon is largely fairly self-sufficient. One of the main reasons to use Vaporeon is to take advantage of the 101 HP Substitute and early momentum that it provides. Good ways to do this include set up sweepers that can beat Blissey and Jirachi such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar and Dragon Dance Gyarados (First, I think you should find a way to include SubPassing to DDMence especially on Celebi in this sentence. Second, I don't understand how DD Gyara is high up on the list of things that benefits from SubPass over DDMence, which is far more prominent in ADV OU - the only thing that vap can pass out of to Gyarados compared to Salamence safely are waters which don't even like to stay in on vap anyway or just intend to Roar it out, and Gyarados is usually to weak to do much early game. DDing early on Blissey usually seems like a bad idea because many things can go wrong (you have to get the Taunt turn right, or use Sub and be at the mercy of Skarmory else use Mag, and this combo is highly weird), and DDing on Jirachi early also seems like a losing interaction because Body Slam paralyzes anyway unless you're Sub Gyara. The only exceptions I can see are using Roar vap yourself and passing on the opponent's switch, and passing on Earthquakes especially from Metagross/Tyranitar. The biggest justification I see - passing out of Celebi, applies to Salamence as well. Nevertheless, I've never built this combination myself but I am willing to consider leaving it in if you can explain to me how this works. If however you mean as Gyarados as a recipient after pivoting to SD Celebi, then this statement is misleading - one does not directly pass the Sub to DD Gyara.), additional Baton Pass chain Pokemon such as Zapdos and Celebi, strong Focus Punch users Fighting-types such as Heracross, Breloom and Medicham, and Snorlax, and trappers such as Dugtrio and Magneton. An excellent partner for Vaporeon is alongside Rock-type attackers such as Dragon Dance + Hidden Power Grass Tyranitar (you already mentioned DDTar above so don't use "such as" again) and Aerodactyl, as stands out as a partner because the passed Substitute protects it from Swampert's attacks, allowing it to 2HKO Swampert safely. This paves the way for other physical sweepers like Aerodactyl and Dragon Dance Salamence. Vaporeon can pass Tyranitar the Substitute it needs to go for the 2HKO on Swampert with HP Grass without worrying about Swampert's attacks, opening up the way for Aerodactyl. Vaporeon also fits alongside Swords Dance + Baton Pass Celebi and Dragon Dance Gyarados (does this actually work? I've never tried it), as it can provide the early momentum needed for Swords Dance Celebi to set up and give the boosts to Gyarados or Agility Metagross (why do you only mention DD Gyara in the previous sentence but add in Agiligross here? What's so special about Gyara? If there's no good reason, I'd cut DD Gyara out from the previous sentence) while providing the defensive help against Salamence, Moltres, and Charizard. Vaporeon can also even sacrifice itself to weaken Roar Zapdos to the Salac Berry for Celebi as well as put Roar Zapdos and Jolteon in range for of Celebi’s attacks Rock-type coverage (boosted Shadow Ball also KOs bulkless Zap after Ice Beam). If Zapdos's Thunderbolt places it in range of Salac Berry, can even pass the boost to Celebi as well. While rare, Ninjask also benefits from Vaporeon's ability to lure and chip these phazers, which it can take out and then pass its boosts. This is also particularly useful for teams built around short passes with Ninjask, as Ninjask can set up on a Dugtrio trap of Magneton for example and pass +2 Attack and +2 Speed to Marowak or another physical sweeper while Vaporeon can weaken common phazers so that they are in range of Ninjask's coverage, such as Hidden Power Rock for Zapdos as an example (this is not a Ninjask analysis, so detailed examples for Ninjask detracts from the main point). Roar variants can help set up on the Roar Suicune and Swampert that annoy these teams (I'm not sure about this - Roar seems to me to help those DDTar stuff more than SD Pass stuff because those at least have the raw power to take advantage of sub).
 

vapicuno

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What I wanted to get at was that bc you need to wait a turn to heal, if you're burned, poisoned, or sand is up and you're at like 10%, you'll die before the wish connects, while w softboiled or recover, you'll heal that health before you die. Is there a better way to word this?
This is related to the previous sentence, so the flow is a bit awkward. You're going from status to taking advantage of the protect turn to status again. I would phrase it as such:
Defensive Vaporeon's healing ability is highly unreliable compared to the other bulky Water-types. Vaporeon cannot afford cannot heal from status effects as it is too defensively weak to run Rest and unlike Milotic, does not learn Refresh. As such, Vaporeon detests Toxic, while both burn and paralysis, which limit its ability to check what it needs to. This flaw is compounded by Vaporeon's need to expend two turns to heal with Wish + Protect; unlike Milotic using Recover, it receives two turns of damage from burn, Toxic, and Leech Seed, and has a higher chance of failing from full paralysis. Unlike Swampert, Vaporeon's lack of sand immunity denies it recovery on Protect, giving the opponent a turn to switch at no cost. Furthermore, Vaporeon receives an additional turn of indirect damage through its Wish + Protect sequence. Defensive Vaporeon has to rely on the Wish + Protect combo to heal and is not immune to sand, making it vulnerable to opponents taking advantage of the Protect turn or to residual damage while healing.
Looks much better now. My edits:
Vaporeon is largely fairly self-sufficient. One of the main reasons to use Vaporeon is to take advantage of the 101 HP Substitute and early momentum that it provides. These partners can be divided into four catagories: physical set up sweepers and their support, special chains based around Celebi, Focus Punch users, and trappers.

As Vaporeon easily gets a Substitute on Jirachi and Blissey lacking Electric-type coverage, physical sweepers such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Dragon Dance Salamence, and Dragon Dance Gyarados are good partners. Dragon Dance + Hidden Power Grass Tyranitar stands out as a partner because the passed Substitute protects it from Swampert's attacks, allowing it to 2HKO Swampert safely. This paves the way for other physical sweepers like Aerodactyl and Dragon Dance Salamence. Dragon Dance Salamence especially takes advantage of defensive Jirachi and Celebi, as defensive Jirachi can't break the Substitute within two turns without Ice Punch, while Celebi needs Psychic and is greatly threatened by Salamence. A +2 Salamence outspeeds and threatens much of the tier. With Roar, Vaporeon can generate momentum against Roar Suicune, a common way to phaze out a boosted Salamence the only common phazer that Vaporeon cannot hit hard. Vaporeon also fits alongside Swords Dance + Baton Pass Celebi, as it can provide the early momentum needed for Swords Dance Celebi to set up and give the boosts to Dragon Dance Gyarados or Agility Metagross while providing the defensive help against Salamence, Moltres, and Charizard. Vaporeon can also sacrifice itself to weaken Roar Zapdos and Jolteon in range of Celebi’s attacks. If Zapdos's Thunderbolt places it in range of Salac Berry, can even pass the boost to Celebi as well. While rare, Ninjask also benefits from Vaporeon's ability to lure and chip these phazers, which it can take out and then pass its boosts.

Vaporeon also fits well on Baton Pass chains focused around Zapdos and Celebi, as it can continue the chain with its own Baton Pass and provide some physical backbone against Tyranitar, Salamence, Flygon, and Metagross. Celebi provides an answer to Zapdos should Vaporeon not want to sacrifice itself and can pass Calm Mind to make Vaporeon more powerful. Zapdos can pass Agility to make Vaporeon faster than everything while providing a soft check to opposing Zapdos. Vaporeon’s powerful Hydro Pump can also weaken Snorlax, a common check to these teams due to its special bulk and sometimes lack of sand strong physically offensive presence. Common choices alongside these Pokemon include Jirachi, Raikou, Gengar, and mixed Metagross, while Porygon2 can provide some additional defensive backbone should Vaporeon be weakened. Gengar can even carry Focus Punch to power through Blissey and Snorlax (johnnyg to vapi, should this be here or in the next paragraph? vapi: here sounds better). These types of special offense typically forgo Dugtrio to set up one threat with a multiple Calm Mind or Substitute head start to overwhelm the opposing special walls like Blissey and Jirachi. These partners typically prefer Vaporeon’s Baton Pass and ability to pass 101 HP Substitutes with stat boosts to keep momentum to Suicune (not sure how unless Roar) and offensive Swampert’s additional physical bulk and sweeping prowess in the case of Suicune. (this whole sentence is generally unclear to me. What does pert's physical bulk have to do with cune? What pert sweep are we talking about? Lots of things that don't add up without context)

Vaporeon can also maximize damage in the short term by passing to strong Focus Punch users such as Heracross, Breloom, Medicham, and Snorlax. Heracross and Medicham can KO every Pokemon in the game with their coverage and Focus Punch behind a 101 HP Substitute while Breloom guarantees a free Spore + Focus Punch. Snorlax greatly threatens all common Vaporeon checks and can KO much of the tier with Focus Punch + coverage move. These partners typically do not appear in a full chain; they commonly appear alongside Zapdos to further generate momentum and another stronger check to Rock-types such as Flygon and Swampert. Another common partner on these types of teams is Charizard, as it can take advantage of the Substitute to terrorize Toxic, Sandstorm, and Spikes (TSS) teams, while Vaporeon invalidates Milotic and other bulky Water-types that neutralize Charizard.

Vaporeon also can fit alongside trappers such as Magneton and Dugtrio; one of the common ways to deny Vaporeon a Substitute for Toxic, Sandstorm, and Spikes (TSS) teams is phase phaze Vaporeon out with Skarmory. Vaporeon can easily facilitate Magneton’s entry. This is especially helpful alongside the physical sweepers mentioned in the second paragraph. Vaporeon can also pass to Dugtrio to easily eliminate Blissey and Jirachi; however, one should be careful of the defensive deficiencies of this partnership to Dragon Dance Salamence and Gyarados.
I'll finish the rest of the QC check in due time.
 
This is related to the previous sentence, so the flow is a bit awkward. You're going from status to taking advantage of the protect turn to status again. I would phrase it as such:


Looks much better now. My edits:


I'll finish the rest of the QC check in due time.
Put in your edits, thanks! Wanted to go over the below

These partners typically prefer Vaporeon’s Baton Pass and ability to pass 101 HP Substitutes with stat boosts to keep momentum to Suicune (not sure how unless Roar) and offensive Swampert’s additional physical bulk and sweeping prowess in the case of Suicune. (this whole sentence is generally unclear to me. What does pert's physical bulk have to do with cune? What pert sweep are we talking about? Lots of things that don't add up without context)
I was trying to draw a comparison between off vap vs cune/pert, saying those teams typically prefer the momentum over the bulk. However, you're right, it is pretty unclear so I got rid of it.
 

vapicuno

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Generally, the issue I have is that Vaporeon's niches are presented in too neutral of a manner. The prose makes it sound like Vaporeon has a bunch of superior qualities compared to the others, which is not the case; they are just niches, but they are not necessarily good. For example, it is perfectly acceptable imo in the analyses to talk about Wishpass in theory but caution that in practice this rarely works out because Vaporeon is too frail. Similarly, Haze is bad at dealing with anything other than cune, and Protect is more of a liability than an asset.

We can discuss with the QC team if there are any disagreements.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect
move 3: Surf
move 4: Haze / Roar
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Defensive Vaporeon takes a different approach as a distinguishes itself from other defensive Water-types Milotic, Suicune, and Swampert with access to Wish and Haze to prevent set-up (either explain both or explain none; I'm for explaining none because you're going to do it in the rest of the set description anyway); alongside its Water immunity, it most notably is the hardest counter to mono Surf (not super exact because it checks ice beam cune decently as well with Blissey especially without spikes yet can also lose to tox cune. Since these are complex conditions to capture I'd just go for the vague "most".) most Suicune in the game. Unlike its competition in Milotic, Suicune, and Swampert, (you already said its different from other waters above, avoid repeating; if you really want, add the purple above in the first sentence since they all also don't get Haze) Vaporeon's has access to Wish to lets it heal up its teammates. Due to its utility as a check to physical Pokemon, it is quite effective in this role (hmm, I actually disagree with this. I think Vaporeon is quite terrible as a Wishpasser which is why it's not used more. Vaporeon basically cannot check any DDer or CBer from 70% if it decides to Wishpass instead of healing itself.); Vaporeon has almost identical overall bulk to Milotic, so it can pass to its teammates throughout the game (same point; Milotic's bulk is actually pretty bad which is why it usually needs to Recover after taking a hit, so no passing). However, unlike Milotic, Vaporeon has to Protect to heal with Wish, which can be a double-edged sword—on one hand, Vaporeon can scout for Explosion and generate extra turns for passive damage (this "double-edged sword" phrasing makes it sound like Protect is an asset that Milotic does not have - I disagree. The need to use protect is a liability. Milotic could very well run Protect too if it wanted to, but it has a much better move - Refresh!). On the other, Vaporeon’s method of healing isn’t immediate and can be easily taken advantage of due to how telegraphed it is (this telegraphed part only applies to the point about setting up (or switching, which you didn't mention) on the protect turn, not to status/phazing. The way you have written it makes it sound like it being telegraphed is a weakness that applies to everything) via phasing it out as it uses Wish, not being able to heal poison, burn, or sand damage immediately, or setting up on it. In comparison to Swampert, Vaporeon is forced into this situation more often due to a lack of Rock-resistance and immunity to sand, whereas Suicune's much higher physical bulk than Vaporeon allows it to afford a Rest; it also can set up Calm Mind to shore itself on the special side (I'm also not sure how much comparison in detail you want to make here, considering this is a Vaporeon analysis. BTW, Calm Mind is irrelevant, Vaporeon's not doing special walling anyway and even if it is, it's an even better switchin to pert's hydro because of Water Absorb).

Vaporeon can retaliate against set-up sweepers and tanks with its last two slots. Vaporeon has a fairly strong Surf; unlike Milotic and more defensive variants of Suicune and Swampert, it is very favored to OHKO Aerodactyl while easily 2HKOing Tyranitar and 3HKOing non bulky Metagross. Additionally, Vaporeon's crucially has access to Haze allows it to wall most Suicune, and act as an emergency check against Dragon Dance Salamence and Curse Snorlax. Note that Vaporeon should not be the first line of defense against the latter two as Salamence can flinch with Rock Slide and Snorlax can paralyze with Body Slam; both can also easily PP stall Vaporeon. to neutralizes any set-up such as Snorlax's Curse, Salamence's Dragon Dance, and Suicune's Calm Mind or can phase with Roar. The choice between the two generally depends on how weak the team is against Suicune and Snorlax—Vaporeon can always force Suicune to PP stall it with Haze, while Vaporeon outspeeds Curse Snorlax and can Haze it before it uses a boosted attack . Haze is also nice against teams built around passing multiple boosts. If one is not worried about these as well as Suicune's faster Roar, Roar is valuable to spread more passive damage and remove opposing Substitutes. Vaporeon generally needs all the physical bulk it can get; however, it can also spare a few Def EVs for SpD to better survive strong special coverage. (Generally, I don't agree with how neutral Haze and Roar are being presented. I'd provide a stronger opinion on Haze. I think Roar is really not making good use of Vaporeon and I can barely see good reasons for it, so I would mention that Haze is the preferred option. We can discuss with the rest of the QC team)
 

vapicuno

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Team Options
========

This Vaporeon must have specific help from its teammates, as it has critical flaws that make it harder to fit on teams than Milotic, Swampert, and Suicune. The number one support Vaporeon needs appreciates (i personally avoid using strong words like needs because there are always ways to break rules - such as roro's double cb vaplix team) is Heal Bell support from Blissey or Celebi—without this, Vaporeon will succumb to Toxic rather easily. Other status conditions are also painful for Vaporeon, as paralysis makes it more difficult to pass Wish and burn damage can accumulate due to the two-turn nature of Wish. In return, Vaporeon can provide a strong answer to Rest Suicune that Blissey can commonly struggle with, while also providing Wish support and an answer to physical threats as well. The second form of support Vaporeon needs appreciates is Rapid Spin support. Even with its fairly strong Surf, Vaporeon typically is set-up bait for Spikes users such as Cloyster, Skarmory, and Forretress. The Rapid Spin user of choice is usually Claydol, as Starmie doesn’t fit well with Vaporeon and Forretress teams typically can’t fit the support Vaporeon needs (agree about the starmie, but disagree about forre, since pursuit definitely helps - think hclat used a forrevap team vs blight in ci4). Claydol also provides a needed back-up answer to Rock-types, as Vaporeon can succumb to untimely flinches from Aerodactyl and Dragon Dance Tyranitar’s +1 Rock Slide. Claydol also appreciates Heal Bell and Wish support to handle Rapid spinning against Toxic or Drill Peck Skarmory repeatedly.

(In your subsequent paragraph, I think there is a general need to elaborate on how wish support helps. For example, Skarmory appreciates Wish because it usually gets damaged while spiking, so restoring it to full HP allows it to spike to 3 or to help it act as a wall in conjunction with being a spiker. It seems like you're saying "everything likes Wish" = everything likes free HP, of course, who doesn't? which really isn't saying much)

(There are also some conventional wish targets I'd add that can be good with vap - cbmence, curserestlax)


Vaporeon typically is featured on stall teams and defensive Toxic, Sandstorm, and Spikes (TSS) teams, and appreciates added ways to do damage to the opponent. Tyranitar’s sand and offensive power go a long way to make damage stick on the opponent, as Vaporeon is fantastic at Wish support for more drawn out games (this sentence doesn't make sense to me. what does sand and offense have to do with wish support?). All forms of Tyranitar are useful for Vaporeon, as they appreciate Wish support (also doesn't make sense to me. im quite sure im not using ddtar with defensive vaporeon. and does bulky ttar really appreciate wish support anyway? seems more like a by the way think. ttar heals well enough with leftovers, so i don't understand what this is driving at). Physical Tyranitar can threaten the special walls that neutralize Vaporeon, while Pursuit Tyranitar can eliminate Gengar that annoys Vaporeon with burn and super-effective coverage. In addition, Spikes also help in these more drawn out games—Skarmory is the standard (think forre is fine too really. also see comment above paragraph), as it provides superior defensive utility and also appreciates Vaporeon's proficiency against offensive Water-types and Wish support. Another great teammate is Hariyama, as bulky variants with Knock Off can provide a strong check to Rock-types, while also helping to shore up Vaporeon against Tyranitar with Electric-type coverage (confused - what does vaporeon, electric types, hariyama, and ttar have to do with one another?). Vaporeon appreciates Hariyama’s Knock Off (why?), and also helps greatly against teams that where one would want Milotic, such as against opposing Magneton + Claydol teams (logic and writing not clear - is milotic the opponent, or are you the one who wants milo? milo magdol is kinda rare - usually cune goes with magdol better instead. but even if we're talking about milomagdol, i think that is rather specific, because knock off is potent vs all sorts of stall teams, be it defensive/balanced-bordering-defensive tss / sandless magdol stuff - basically teams with no good way to effect immediate pressure on hariyama). Moltres also fits nicely alongside Vaporeon, as it can provide an excellent answer to Celebi that can freely gain momentum off of Vaporeon with Leech Seed. Moltres also assists in the fight against Metagross, while Vaporeon can pass Wish to Moltres to keep it healthy (also by being a secondary metagross pivot, protects vaporeon from booms. a finer point is that some teams that swap zap for molt become more cune weak to vap helps).
 

vapicuno

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[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Vaporeon is a staple of teams based around passing multiple boosts to a sweeper such as Marowak (chaining might be the right word here since everyone knows what a BP chain is). On these teams, Vaporeon passes 101 HP Subsitutes, Acid Armor, and sometimes Wish while also making sure the chain doesn’t fall to strong physical attackers such as Metagross, Salamence, Tyranitar, and even Heracross. Some other Pokemon that appear on these chains include Ninjask to make Vaporeon faster than everything (talk about speed + Roar somewhere to prevent phazing), Magneton to prevent Skarmory from ruining the chain, as well as Calm Mind + Baton Pass Celebi (also can talk about absorbing status) and Agility + Baton Pass Zapdos (prob better to group zap with jask since they're the speedpassers) that are common partners to offensive Vaporeon. Vaporeon can also pass Wish alone on the defensive set by adding Baton Pass over Haze or Protect; however, losing either of these option makes defensive Vaporeon worse at walling what it needs to. (also just one sentence about how this archetype is risky and all-in)

Other than these, Vaporeon doesn’t have very many other options not mentioned. Vaporeon can add Ice Beam to its defensive set to be a better Salamence counter, Hidden Power Electric for Gyarados and other Water-types, as well as Charm or Toxic to better counter threats that might shrug off Surf, especially Snorlax in the case of Charm. However, none of these are as effective as Haze and Roar universally. Vaporeon can also run more offensive Acid Armor passing sets to pass defensive boosts to a set-up threat such as Raikou or Tyranitar to better protect them from strong physical attacks.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Bulky Electric-types**: Specially bulky Electric-types such as Zapdos, Jolteon, and even Lanturn are perhaps the best counters in the game for Vaporeon. If Zapdos doesn’t invest in SpA, it won’t even activate the Salac Berry and can barely tank two Ice Beams. Jolteon does not appreciate Hydro Pump, but can easily outspeed and break the Substitute even after a Salac Berry boost. Lanturn is perhaps the best of these due to resisting Hydro Pump, but it might cede momentum to Vaporeon due to being outsped.

**Special Walls that can break its Substitute**: (i don't think i wanna include this break sub part because even stuff that can break its sub needs to predict what the pass target is, so it doesn't work half the time anyway. and if blissey beams/flames it can still catch breloom/metagross on the switch.) Vaporeon’s Hydro Pump can generally be sponged pretty easily against special walls like Blissey, Snorlax, Jirachi, Celebi, and Regice. However, because Vaporeon can pass bulky Substitutes and commonly will outspeed these Pokemon, one needs to be careful of giving Vaporeon momentum via Wish passing or SubPass. Celebi is perhaps the best of these, as it can tank the Ice Beam relatively easily while only needed a few EVs to outspeed Vaporeon and break the Substitute with Grass-type coverage. Snorlax can similar break the Substitute and threaten the receiver with strong attacks or Self-Destruct once it breaks the Substitute. Blissey and Jirachi can surprise Vaporeon if they run Electric-type coverage, as it will easily break the Substitute. (comment about predicting pass target should be made as a caveat)

**Status**: All Vaporeon are heavily crippled by status, as it can’t afford to run Rest and doesn’t have access to Refresh. Toxic on a Pokemon Vaporeon is supposed to check like Swampert, Suicune, or Metagross is a great way to force status on defensive Vaporeon. Even paralysis and burn cripple Vaporeon, as its Wish recovery needs two turns to pull off.

**Grass-types**: Venusaur (move this to the back; OU mons come first), the aforementioned Celebi, and even Jolly Breloom can stomach Hydro Pump and threaten Vaporeon or at least prevent the Wish or Substitute + Baton Pass. However, all get hit hard by Ice Beam, so they need to be careful.

**Bulky phazers (phaze comes from the word pseudo-haze)**: Should offensive Vaporeon lack Roar, it is vulnerable losing the Substitute to phazers such as Suicune, Skarmory, and Swampert. Since Suicune and Skarmory are naturally faster than Vaporeon, this can still backfire, but offensive Vaporeon will almost always phase defensive Suicune out should it carry Roar. While Vaporeon comfortably phazes defensive Suicune, it can still be outsped and phazed by offensive Suicune.

**Residual damage**: Offensive Vaporeon isn't especially bulky—most of its defensive benchmarks, such as Tyranitar’s +1 Rock Slide, Salamence +1 Hidden Power Flying, and Heracross’s Megahorn, are neutralized once it uses Substitute, especially in sand. Defensive Vaporeon can be taken advantage easily since it can't recover immediately. Example of this are phazing it as it uses Wish, fainting due to burn or sand, or an opponent setting up as it is forced to Protect.

**Porygon2**: While Porygon2 can also give up a be setup fodder for SubPass or Wish pass, it does have access to Trace to heal from Vaporeon’s Water-type coverage
 

Zokuru

The Stall Lord
is a Tiering Contributor
Hi ! Very good analysis, here is what I think you could do to make it even better :

  • Split Offensive Vaporeon into Lead Salac and Leftovers SubPass, and either explain the advantages of a Modest nature with examples like you do with Zapdos and Salamence rolls on Vaporeon or remove it.
  • I'd add an explanation on how using Roar on an opposing Roaring Pokemon is so good and why it's a really interesting option to sub pass ( forcing your opponent into a bad matchup on the field + disrupting his phazing giving you a free turn to actually pass the sub and threaten the entiere team with the pokemon of your choice.
Everything else looks good, maybe I missed something but I doubt it since vapicuno already checked. I'm no ADV QC member so I cannot QC this, but I'm sure Vapicuno will do it after double checking everything and this is implemented ( if he agrees to it being implemented )
 

vapicuno

你的价值比自己想象中的所有还要低。我却早已解脱,享受幸福
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Past WCoP Champion
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Pretty good now. QC 1/2. I will do an AMGP after this is given QC 2.

Edit: To respond to Zokuru, we will not split Salac and Leftovers sets because it only really makes sense to split if the distinctions can be made clear in the skeleton. Since the skeleton organizes the sets into set details and team options, and I don't see the sets or offvap's partners being too different for Salac / Leftovers, we won't be splitting the sets.
 

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