Where's the thread for the Tornadus ST exactly?
Edit: Found it. Didn't realize I could search for metagame tags.
Edit: Found it. Didn't realize I could search for metagame tags.
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2v2 2v2 Doubles
- Thread starter Mubs
- Start date
Hey, wanted to just post my thoughts about the tier currently prior to the suspecting of Tornadus!
& 
UR -> B
I've ranked these together as despite utility coming from Politoad, they're mostly useless without each other. Was surprised they was not ranked as it is one of the only ways of speed control that doesn't lose to Tornadus, whilst the combination of Helping Hand + Kingdra Coverage beats most in the viability rankings with few exceptions like Volcanion with Weezing-G being very rare from what I see as of now. I would love to see the pair rise higher in the rankings more but i believe i cannot nominate them higher due to a clear lack of usage to justify it.
UR -> B
I used Metagross a ton whilst gaining Reqs for the recent suspect and it leads me to believe that this is a spot that people have clearly missed as this thing is a monster. I made a quite specific optimised spread for Metagross however it has alot of use in Choice Scarf, Occa Berry and so forth but it beats threats such as Pheromosa, all Tapus , Urshifu , Naganadel, Nihilego , etc.. due to its great natural bulk and and typing. I pair this usually with Regieleki or Rillaboom since it usually struggles with Water-types other than Fini however i have found some fun with Dual Steel core in Wide Guard Aegislash and Metagross baiting in Eruption Heatran.
(click the sprite for sets)
First set is my personal favourite as it lives max health Eruption from Heatran (timid charcoal) whilst OHKO'ing back with Stomping Tantrum whilst generally having exceptional bulk. I have Steel Roller on this set since i like to pair this with one of the Terrain Setters, mainly Fini, to eliminate Follow Me Clefable or simply apposing Rillaboom. Ice Punch allows Metagross to 1v1 Thousand Arrows locked Zygarde with 68 Defence EVs. I have consistently used this set and found the most success with it.
The Second Set allows Metagross to cripple many threats such as Tailwind Tornadus or Boosting Tapu Fini whilst being able to outspeed and OHKO threats such as Kyurem-B, Naganadel, and Choice Band Zapdos-G. It is more consistent when paired with a strong Water-type remover but is extremely hard to get a perfect core with Metagross as it requires a decent amount of fundamental support in order to reach its max threat level as a Choice Scarfer
The Third Set is probably the most fun if you like clicking buttons and seeing things go poof. I pair Metagross with Tornadus for added speed control so that i can bait in offensive Heatran, Volcanion, and Pheromosa and completely destroy them since Life Orb is the needed attack boost Metagross wants in order to start hitting Calcs that it would not usually OHKO such as Defensive Landorus-T as you can switch between Thunder and Ice Punch depending on your team options.
B+ -> A-/A
The rising popularity of Pheromosa,Kyurem-B, Zygarde, and Naganadel has prompted Lele to be used more as a Scarfer, quite easily beating top tier threats whilst being paired with Zygarde, the core seems to be almost unstoppable in my eyes. Potentially one of the best offensive Pokemon in the tier as of now since its speed tier is only outclassed by Genesect (but we'll move onto this in a second). Psychic Terrain is probably one of the best Terrains in Doubles without a doubt, with the only counterplay being Grassy Terrain usage as Rilla is slower but exceedingly popular.
A+ -> S
The versatility alone for this could make it S tier but we are going to home in on its two most basic sets. Life Orb and Scarf are a menace to any Steel/Fairy+Dragon cores whilst it removes any popular options such as Heatran from being useful within a game. Pairing Zygarde with something that appreciates Steel-types being removed completely dominates play as i personally use Lele for Fake Out removal, it strains on the builder to the point where Whimsicott is needed on each team, with varying success to even counter the two. Despite this only being a nomination post, i do believe that Zygarde is forming towards the broken part of the tier. It neutralises the builder to such an extent to the point where even in the 2v2 Pool League we have Zygarde in the top 5 most used Cores with both pole positions #2 and #5 with the highest win ratios overall in that part. Only thing close to it is Tornadus which recently had tiering action against it. Now I'm not saying tiering action is needed really, I'm just saying that it is something we should keep an eye on as it is bordering broken if abused correctly, however this is only my opinion and it it may not even be shared by many.
S- -> A+
This is probably quite a contriversal view but i think Togekiss' time at the top is being numbered through Indeede-F's existance through carrying superior support in Psychic Terrain and being able to function just how Togekiss does, minus the speed control. The meta is shifting more hostile towards Togekiss with the rising of Indeede + Victini Cores in the 2v2 Doubles Pool League whilst Regieleki has become more prominant than ever, making its Imprision and redirection niche to be harder than ever to be pulled off. Tailwind with Flinch support is giving Togekiss a high rating still in my eyes, but it simply cannot compete in the Viability rankings with Indeede-F and Tornadus
Viability Rankings Changes
I feel like to share the more competitive and unpredictable nature that is similar to 1v1, extend the viability rankings down to C+. This would allow the community to come together to share more unexplored sets and Pokemon within the tier that have genuine niche to beat the top tier Pokemon as that clearly shows that they are clearly viable in the tier but potentially not at the same level as something in the B Tier (lowest right now). It also means that more Pokemon can be placed within the Viability Ranking as some of the tiers are looking rather slim compared to what can be ranked as the Pokemon viewed to be viable is very short compared to what actually is and is shown through tournaments. With that it allows more creativity in things such as Set Compendiums and nominations as we are currently seeing Pokemon appear in the 2v2 Doubles Pool League consistently do well but are not ranked currently on the Viability charts like Kartana, Alolan Marowak, and Clefable as some very prominent examples.
A way to summarise my thoughts:
& UR -> BI've ranked these together as despite utility coming from Politoad, they're mostly useless without each other. Was surprised they was not ranked as it is one of the only ways of speed control that doesn't lose to Tornadus, whilst the combination of Helping Hand + Kingdra Coverage beats most in the viability rankings with few exceptions like Volcanion with Weezing-G being very rare from what I see as of now. I would love to see the pair rise higher in the rankings more but i believe i cannot nominate them higher due to a clear lack of usage to justify it.
UR -> BI used Metagross a ton whilst gaining Reqs for the recent suspect and it leads me to believe that this is a spot that people have clearly missed as this thing is a monster. I made a quite specific optimised spread for Metagross however it has alot of use in Choice Scarf, Occa Berry and so forth but it beats threats such as Pheromosa, all Tapus , Urshifu , Naganadel, Nihilego , etc.. due to its great natural bulk and and typing. I pair this usually with Regieleki or Rillaboom since it usually struggles with Water-types other than Fini however i have found some fun with Dual Steel core in Wide Guard Aegislash and Metagross baiting in Eruption Heatran.
(click the sprite for sets)First set is my personal favourite as it lives max health Eruption from Heatran (timid charcoal) whilst OHKO'ing back with Stomping Tantrum whilst generally having exceptional bulk. I have Steel Roller on this set since i like to pair this with one of the Terrain Setters, mainly Fini, to eliminate Follow Me Clefable or simply apposing Rillaboom. Ice Punch allows Metagross to 1v1 Thousand Arrows locked Zygarde with 68 Defence EVs. I have consistently used this set and found the most success with it.
The Second Set allows Metagross to cripple many threats such as Tailwind Tornadus or Boosting Tapu Fini whilst being able to outspeed and OHKO threats such as Kyurem-B, Naganadel, and Choice Band Zapdos-G. It is more consistent when paired with a strong Water-type remover but is extremely hard to get a perfect core with Metagross as it requires a decent amount of fundamental support in order to reach its max threat level as a Choice Scarfer
The Third Set is probably the most fun if you like clicking buttons and seeing things go poof. I pair Metagross with Tornadus for added speed control so that i can bait in offensive Heatran, Volcanion, and Pheromosa and completely destroy them since Life Orb is the needed attack boost Metagross wants in order to start hitting Calcs that it would not usually OHKO such as Defensive Landorus-T as you can switch between Thunder and Ice Punch depending on your team options.
B+ -> A-/AThe rising popularity of Pheromosa,Kyurem-B, Zygarde, and Naganadel has prompted Lele to be used more as a Scarfer, quite easily beating top tier threats whilst being paired with Zygarde, the core seems to be almost unstoppable in my eyes. Potentially one of the best offensive Pokemon in the tier as of now since its speed tier is only outclassed by Genesect (but we'll move onto this in a second). Psychic Terrain is probably one of the best Terrains in Doubles without a doubt, with the only counterplay being Grassy Terrain usage as Rilla is slower but exceedingly popular.
A+ -> SThe versatility alone for this could make it S tier but we are going to home in on its two most basic sets. Life Orb and Scarf are a menace to any Steel/Fairy+Dragon cores whilst it removes any popular options such as Heatran from being useful within a game. Pairing Zygarde with something that appreciates Steel-types being removed completely dominates play as i personally use Lele for Fake Out removal, it strains on the builder to the point where Whimsicott is needed on each team, with varying success to even counter the two. Despite this only being a nomination post, i do believe that Zygarde is forming towards the broken part of the tier. It neutralises the builder to such an extent to the point where even in the 2v2 Pool League we have Zygarde in the top 5 most used Cores with both pole positions #2 and #5 with the highest win ratios overall in that part. Only thing close to it is Tornadus which recently had tiering action against it. Now I'm not saying tiering action is needed really, I'm just saying that it is something we should keep an eye on as it is bordering broken if abused correctly, however this is only my opinion and it it may not even be shared by many.
S- -> A+This is probably quite a contriversal view but i think Togekiss' time at the top is being numbered through Indeede-F's existance through carrying superior support in Psychic Terrain and being able to function just how Togekiss does, minus the speed control. The meta is shifting more hostile towards Togekiss with the rising of Indeede + Victini Cores in the 2v2 Doubles Pool League whilst Regieleki has become more prominant than ever, making its Imprision and redirection niche to be harder than ever to be pulled off. Tailwind with Flinch support is giving Togekiss a high rating still in my eyes, but it simply cannot compete in the Viability rankings with Indeede-F and Tornadus
Viability Rankings Changes
I feel like to share the more competitive and unpredictable nature that is similar to 1v1, extend the viability rankings down to C+. This would allow the community to come together to share more unexplored sets and Pokemon within the tier that have genuine niche to beat the top tier Pokemon as that clearly shows that they are clearly viable in the tier but potentially not at the same level as something in the B Tier (lowest right now). It also means that more Pokemon can be placed within the Viability Ranking as some of the tiers are looking rather slim compared to what can be ranked as the Pokemon viewed to be viable is very short compared to what actually is and is shown through tournaments. With that it allows more creativity in things such as Set Compendiums and nominations as we are currently seeing Pokemon appear in the 2v2 Doubles Pool League consistently do well but are not ranked currently on the Viability charts like Kartana, Alolan Marowak, and Clefable as some very prominent examples.
A way to summarise my thoughts:
Last edited:
IBM
Banned deucer.
Waiting for a flight so here’s just a flow of thoughts about the state of 2v2, idk I guess just something I had to get out there.
Problems:
I think 2v2 has an identity problem. It’s not a very digestible metagame for most smogon users because of how far removed it is from standard OU play, basically mixing 2 modifications together, (doubles and the 1v1 style) when most other OMs only have one change to standard OU. It is for this reason that smogon users generally don’t find 2v2 first, they first become familiar with either 1v1 or doubles ou and then play 2v2 on the side. We also don’t fit into the category we are placed in, OMs, just look at every other OM and then look at us, there’s really no reason we should be here.
Solutions?:
So here’s what I was thinking: since people only come from 1v1 or DOU, maybe we should lean on that a bit more and try to associate more with one or both of them, like maybe get 2v2 tours in their rooms or something
Also our room being private really hurts us trying to gain people cuz no one even knows we exist
Orrrrrrrrr (and I know I’m gonna get crucified for this) The meta that we are really most similar to is VGC, so mayyybeee free dynamax, set levels to 50, and advertise to vgc people as a faster vgc that can also help with their picking leads, idk but they don’t really like smogon anyways so that’s a weird idea
Problems:
I think 2v2 has an identity problem. It’s not a very digestible metagame for most smogon users because of how far removed it is from standard OU play, basically mixing 2 modifications together, (doubles and the 1v1 style) when most other OMs only have one change to standard OU. It is for this reason that smogon users generally don’t find 2v2 first, they first become familiar with either 1v1 or doubles ou and then play 2v2 on the side. We also don’t fit into the category we are placed in, OMs, just look at every other OM and then look at us, there’s really no reason we should be here.
Solutions?:
So here’s what I was thinking: since people only come from 1v1 or DOU, maybe we should lean on that a bit more and try to associate more with one or both of them, like maybe get 2v2 tours in their rooms or something
Also our room being private really hurts us trying to gain people cuz no one even knows we exist
Orrrrrrrrr (and I know I’m gonna get crucified for this) The meta that we are really most similar to is VGC, so mayyybeee free dynamax, set levels to 50, and advertise to vgc people as a faster vgc that can also help with their picking leads, idk but they don’t really like smogon anyways so that’s a weird idea
IBM
Banned deucer.
Sample team submission by me and Adam3560:
The Godsquad
This team is a good team to be a sample because it’s really simple to use for new players and it also abuses all the broken mons so it’s quite schnasty just as a regular team. Let’s go over the mons and stuff idk I haven’t made a sample team submission in a while
Tornadus:
Big papa. The mon that should be banned. He goes by many names, but he doesn’t have many sets. This is pretty much the most basic torn set and it works every time, no need to get fancy. Prankster tailwind, protect for safety vs fake out users, life orb hurricane for grasses and general damage, and heat wave for genesect.
Zeraora:
Another basic set, zera doesn’t need protect because it’s usually the one forcing protects so you can run 4 attacks with av. Fake out for pressure and free turns, plasma fists for water and flying types, electroweb for speed control, and play rough for stuff like dragapult. AV is a cool item that helps in the rain and psyspam matchups.
Urshifu:
Bro it’s a sample team stop thinking I’m gonna be creative with this stuff. Protect for fake out and outplaying, surging strikes and close combat for damage, ice punch for zygarde and flying types.
Kyurem-Black:
Kyub is bulky and does a lot of damage. Draco meteor for dragons, freeze dry for specifically gastro and fini, chople berry for zeraora and hawlucha, earth power to hit zera. Speed for regidrago.
Synergies:
+ 
This is the core that the team is built around, it turns out taking the original zera + Urshifu dark core and just changing the Urshifu type is not bad at all. Fake out gives Urshifu a free move against faster mons and they can’t protect against it because of urshifu’s ability, pretty simple concept that does numbers on most of the 2v2 meta, electroweb can also be used as speed control if you need it. AV zera + Urshifu also has a very good matchup vs rain, which is a common core for ladder. Also just generally zera beats water types and flying types that Urshifu struggles with, and Urshifu beats ground and most dragon types that zera struggles with.
+
This is another core that can just completely invalidate many a ladder team. Tornadus’s prankster tailwind makes urshifu faster than anything else barring an opposing tornadus, and you can use this to your advantage by getting off a unprotectable surging strikes or close combat and usually just delete the most dangerous mon. Torn beats the grasses that urshifu struggles with and urshifu beats rocks and ices that tornadus doesn’t like.
+
Tornadus can also use tailwind to help with kyub’s speed problem. This can ensure that kyub stays faster than regidrago against the common tailwind regidrago teams. Kyub also outspeeds zeraora under tailwind, so this duo can beat opposing zera shifu because of chople berry. This is also what you want to click into rillaboom hawlucha.
+
Electroweb zera and kyub is actually a super underrated combo because the one problem with kyub is it’s speed compared to other dragons, so usually they can just go their own dragon and tornadus to beat kyub + torn, but zera pressures torn and the dragon so they have to Draco against zera and die to kyub or Draco against kyub and not have the power to beat zera afterwards because it’s av. If they don’t go torn you can just electroweb to slow them down and kill with kyub.
Zera + torn and shifu + Kyub can be clicked and work together in specific matchups, but not as often and spammable as the other combos.
Problems:
- Our only real way to hit genesect is torn, which drops to its coverage, so you will usually have to use zera to wall it which is a shaky matchup
- We don’t have any dark types and the mons are relatively frail so it’s a kinda bad matchup vs psyspam and just redirection in general
- Luckily trick room is kinda in the depths of hell right now but the whole team is just walled by cress, but the problem can usually be solved by breaking the protect of the mon next to cress with urshifu
The Godsquad
Tornadus:
Big papa. The mon that should be banned. He goes by many names, but he doesn’t have many sets. This is pretty much the most basic torn set and it works every time, no need to get fancy. Prankster tailwind, protect for safety vs fake out users, life orb hurricane for grasses and general damage, and heat wave for genesect.
Zeraora:
Another basic set, zera doesn’t need protect because it’s usually the one forcing protects so you can run 4 attacks with av. Fake out for pressure and free turns, plasma fists for water and flying types, electroweb for speed control, and play rough for stuff like dragapult. AV is a cool item that helps in the rain and psyspam matchups.
Urshifu:
Bro it’s a sample team stop thinking I’m gonna be creative with this stuff. Protect for fake out and outplaying, surging strikes and close combat for damage, ice punch for zygarde and flying types.
Kyurem-Black:
Kyub is bulky and does a lot of damage. Draco meteor for dragons, freeze dry for specifically gastro and fini, chople berry for zeraora and hawlucha, earth power to hit zera. Speed for regidrago.
Synergies:
+ This is the core that the team is built around, it turns out taking the original zera + Urshifu dark core and just changing the Urshifu type is not bad at all. Fake out gives Urshifu a free move against faster mons and they can’t protect against it because of urshifu’s ability, pretty simple concept that does numbers on most of the 2v2 meta, electroweb can also be used as speed control if you need it. AV zera + Urshifu also has a very good matchup vs rain, which is a common core for ladder. Also just generally zera beats water types and flying types that Urshifu struggles with, and Urshifu beats ground and most dragon types that zera struggles with.
+ This is another core that can just completely invalidate many a ladder team. Tornadus’s prankster tailwind makes urshifu faster than anything else barring an opposing tornadus, and you can use this to your advantage by getting off a unprotectable surging strikes or close combat and usually just delete the most dangerous mon. Torn beats the grasses that urshifu struggles with and urshifu beats rocks and ices that tornadus doesn’t like.
+ Tornadus can also use tailwind to help with kyub’s speed problem. This can ensure that kyub stays faster than regidrago against the common tailwind regidrago teams. Kyub also outspeeds zeraora under tailwind, so this duo can beat opposing zera shifu because of chople berry. This is also what you want to click into rillaboom hawlucha.
+ Electroweb zera and kyub is actually a super underrated combo because the one problem with kyub is it’s speed compared to other dragons, so usually they can just go their own dragon and tornadus to beat kyub + torn, but zera pressures torn and the dragon so they have to Draco against zera and die to kyub or Draco against kyub and not have the power to beat zera afterwards because it’s av. If they don’t go torn you can just electroweb to slow them down and kill with kyub.
Zera + torn and shifu + Kyub can be clicked and work together in specific matchups, but not as often and spammable as the other combos.
Problems:
- Our only real way to hit genesect is torn, which drops to its coverage, so you will usually have to use zera to wall it which is a shaky matchup - We don’t have any dark types and the mons are relatively frail so it’s a kinda bad matchup vs psyspam and just redirection in general - Luckily trick room is kinda in the depths of hell right now but the whole team is just walled by cress, but the problem can usually be solved by breaking the protect of the mon next to cress with urshifuFelt like making a vr post so here it is, it's pretty short it's just noms off the top of my head.
Rises:
Kyurem-black A+ to S-:
The existence of chople kyub just makes it so hard to play against, especially if it's not actually chople kyub and your opponent thinks it is. It can pick and choose items/speed/bulk/moves for different scenarios and is imo the least predictable Mon right now. I could argue for s but 317 is still a middling speed tier and you can only run one item at once.
Victini A+ to S-:
Victini psyspam is so crazy, you can just go victini+indeedee/lele and slap two random pokemon on and boom you've got a good team. Victini, like always, is super techable, I ran this one team with wp victini and light screen tapu lele to lure moltres-galar blastoise and tapu fini and it absolutely slaps. I haven't even experimented with any encore or resist berry sets yet, cause lorb expanding force victini is just so strong.
Rillaboom A- to A:
Rillaboom is an incredibly powerful and dare I say overcentralizing pokemon right now. It's super spammable(3rd in usage in pool leagues), fills a role like no other of a strong priority user, and can make cool cores with things like grassy seed mew or hawlucha.
Heatran B+ to A-:
Very threatening on preview, especially considering the commonality of rillaboom/tornadus/genesect/etc./ratio, tw or follow me support is common and appreciate heatran removing genesect for them.
Tapu lele B+ to A-:
Someone else mentioned this already with good reasoning, and I agree with all they've said. I don't have much to add aside from lele being fast and getting screens, and can support wp victini with them.
Drapion UR to B-:
Av drape the lkjc creation, it's tanky it's a good typing and it has good matchups vs like every terrain.(not electric but o well) I freaked out when I realized drapion+clefairy straight up beat my best team, and it probably beats your best team all things considered.
Grimmsnarl UR to C:
Set:https://pokepast.es/e752b19fce5fd0aa
I came up with scarf grimmsnarl originally to lure tornadus for a tour match in the summer. With scarf and prankster it can click trick before torn clicks tailwind and lock torn into tailwind. After creating it and tweaking it slightly I realized it's potential and here's why you should too. Firstly, the torn thing. You can run grimmsnarl with something funky like bulky av urshifu-r so even if torn predicts you and clicks hurricane your urshifu can bulk it and kill back with surging strikes+aqua jet. Secondly, you can trick a scarf onto your own partner, letting them essentially run two items at once, depending if you send them out with grimmsnarl or not. Thirdly, with fire punch, you get the drop on opposing genesects, and with fake out, can enable urshifu-r vs stuff like torn or eleki. This can be beneficial even if grimmsnarl is locked into fake out following t1, due to how strong urshifu can be with just fake out support.
Tldr: View attachment 404433
Drops:
Pheromosa S to S-/A+:
Chople kyub is kinda popular now and also whims/torn/fairies are everywhere, phero's just also super frail which means it dies to any scarfer or good priority which means it needs support to do stuff well.
Genesect S- to A+:
Basically switch genesect and victini. Victini being paired with indeedee/lele is bad news overall for genesect, torn heat wave gets around any redirection genesect teams want to try, and genesect has crazy 4mss, moreso than 1v1 since it wants protect so bad.
Tyranitar A to A-:
No particular reason, it's just slow and fighting weak and resist berries aren't incredibly common. Grass/ground/fighting weaknesses together negate any defensive potential ttar has imo.
End note:
I personally disagree with Reece's older nom of zygarde to s tier, ice moves from the likes of urshifu-r, genesect, pheromosa, Fini, and I probably forgot something are common, and thousand arrows has disappointing damage if you factor in the spread move damage debuff. Beyond just me saying "hurr durr ice moves", both scale shot and outrage are unreliable dragon type moves and can lose you a game just as well as they can win you one. Your speed tier also makes you slower than ursh/victini and speed tie with Lele and/or fast kyub(your dragon moves are unreliable also) which can make it hard to justify picking in a game over something else. Still good, not great IMO.
End note 2: Just realized c tier doesn't exist, okay I'm not nomming grimmsnarl to c I'm just telling people it exists.
Rises:
Kyurem-black A+ to S-:The existence of chople kyub just makes it so hard to play against, especially if it's not actually chople kyub and your opponent thinks it is. It can pick and choose items/speed/bulk/moves for different scenarios and is imo the least predictable Mon right now. I could argue for s but 317 is still a middling speed tier and you can only run one item at once.
Victini A+ to S-:Victini psyspam is so crazy, you can just go victini+indeedee/lele and slap two random pokemon on and boom you've got a good team. Victini, like always, is super techable, I ran this one team with wp victini and light screen tapu lele to lure moltres-galar blastoise and tapu fini and it absolutely slaps. I haven't even experimented with any encore or resist berry sets yet, cause lorb expanding force victini is just so strong.
Rillaboom A- to A:Rillaboom is an incredibly powerful and dare I say overcentralizing pokemon right now. It's super spammable(3rd in usage in pool leagues), fills a role like no other of a strong priority user, and can make cool cores with things like grassy seed mew or hawlucha.
Heatran B+ to A-:Very threatening on preview, especially considering the commonality of rillaboom/tornadus/genesect/etc./ratio, tw or follow me support is common and appreciate heatran removing genesect for them.
Tapu lele B+ to A-:Someone else mentioned this already with good reasoning, and I agree with all they've said. I don't have much to add aside from lele being fast and getting screens, and can support wp victini with them.
Drapion UR to B-:Av drape the lkjc creation, it's tanky it's a good typing and it has good matchups vs like every terrain.(not electric but o well) I freaked out when I realized drapion+clefairy straight up beat my best team, and it probably beats your best team all things considered.
Grimmsnarl UR to C:Set:https://pokepast.es/e752b19fce5fd0aa
I came up with scarf grimmsnarl originally to lure tornadus for a tour match in the summer. With scarf and prankster it can click trick before torn clicks tailwind and lock torn into tailwind. After creating it and tweaking it slightly I realized it's potential and here's why you should too. Firstly, the torn thing. You can run grimmsnarl with something funky like bulky av urshifu-r so even if torn predicts you and clicks hurricane your urshifu can bulk it and kill back with surging strikes+aqua jet. Secondly, you can trick a scarf onto your own partner, letting them essentially run two items at once, depending if you send them out with grimmsnarl or not. Thirdly, with fire punch, you get the drop on opposing genesects, and with fake out, can enable urshifu-r vs stuff like torn or eleki. This can be beneficial even if grimmsnarl is locked into fake out following t1, due to how strong urshifu can be with just fake out support.
Tldr: View attachment 404433
*Psst
*Hey you
*Yeah you, do you wanna see something cool
You want another cool tornadus check before it likely gets banned? Use this: https://pokepast.es/5978bf3e8325a9a2. If you pair weavile with a pokemon who has helping hand, you can fire off a boosted life orb ice shard that OHKO's most tornadii.(252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Helping Hand Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus: 328-385 (109.6 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO) Aside from this, weavile is the second fastest fake out user, can deal with naganadel/zygarde with a 100% accuracy ice punch, and is a dark type which is always great with psyspam teams running around.
https://pokepast.es/220b38e3580294be <-- here's a weav team I made a while ago, you get stuff like a double fake out+ursh core, two helping handers+weavile, and the fastest bolt/beam duo possible in regieleki+weavile. Tanga mew's just there for scarf/occa genesect and phero.
Btw, no I'm not nomming weavile, I don't think it's rankable right now it's just a fun pokemon to use.
*Hey you
*Yeah you, do you wanna see something cool
You want another cool tornadus check before it likely gets banned? Use this: https://pokepast.es/5978bf3e8325a9a2. If you pair weavile with a pokemon who has helping hand, you can fire off a boosted life orb ice shard that OHKO's most tornadii.(252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Helping Hand Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus: 328-385 (109.6 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO) Aside from this, weavile is the second fastest fake out user, can deal with naganadel/zygarde with a 100% accuracy ice punch, and is a dark type which is always great with psyspam teams running around.
https://pokepast.es/220b38e3580294be <-- here's a weav team I made a while ago, you get stuff like a double fake out+ursh core, two helping handers+weavile, and the fastest bolt/beam duo possible in regieleki+weavile. Tanga mew's just there for scarf/occa genesect and phero.
Btw, no I'm not nomming weavile, I don't think it's rankable right now it's just a fun pokemon to use.
Drops:
Pheromosa S to S-/A+:Chople kyub is kinda popular now and also whims/torn/fairies are everywhere, phero's just also super frail which means it dies to any scarfer or good priority which means it needs support to do stuff well.
Genesect S- to A+:Basically switch genesect and victini. Victini being paired with indeedee/lele is bad news overall for genesect, torn heat wave gets around any redirection genesect teams want to try, and genesect has crazy 4mss, moreso than 1v1 since it wants protect so bad.
Tyranitar A to A-:No particular reason, it's just slow and fighting weak and resist berries aren't incredibly common. Grass/ground/fighting weaknesses together negate any defensive potential ttar has imo.
End note:I personally disagree with Reece's older nom of zygarde to s tier, ice moves from the likes of urshifu-r, genesect, pheromosa, Fini, and I probably forgot something are common, and thousand arrows has disappointing damage if you factor in the spread move damage debuff. Beyond just me saying "hurr durr ice moves", both scale shot and outrage are unreliable dragon type moves and can lose you a game just as well as they can win you one. Your speed tier also makes you slower than ursh/victini and speed tie with Lele and/or fast kyub(your dragon moves are unreliable also) which can make it hard to justify picking in a game over something else. Still good, not great IMO.
End note 2: Just realized c tier doesn't exist, okay I'm not nomming grimmsnarl to c I'm just telling people it exists.
Decided to try my shot at one of these with 2v2 swiss starting up and people being more active
(Vouch for Reece's post)
& UR -> B:
Basically what Reece said, surprised I've never seen anyone using rain in tour besides me. The only real downsides are the ban on muddy water which makes you need surf, and politoed not being able to run perish song which makes you run toxic. The only common core that you hard lose to is rillalucha, but slapping either slow indeedee or talonflame on a team will help you deal with them.
UR -> B:
I disagree with the sets he mentioned but metagross with either av/weakness policy or even Life orb is amazing with the right team.
(Vouch for Adam3560's post)
Grimmsnarl UR to B:
Prankster thunder wave allows for good counters to hyper offensive/Tailwind teams, has fake out/screens, and has stab sucker punch/foul play and spirit break which are two good types that are underutilized in this format.
Rises:
& 
UR -> B+:
Both are really good stall iron defense leech seed abusers with ferrothorn having perfect synergy with rain, and celesteela with sand.
UR -> B/B+
Ninetales has a lot of bad MUs (Mostly other weathers, TW) but with the only other stab ice mon being Kyurem and the only real offensive fairy pokemon being Tapu Lele it definitely has a niche. A simple core like regieleki, zygarde, ninetales, indeedee/togekiss can just spam spread moves that nothing besides maybe Inci can reliably take. On top of being a good offensive mon, it can also be a more bulky icy wind aurora veil set.
UR -> B+:
Has the life orb quick guard tw FB brave bird set that allows it to be offensive tornadus, counters rillalucha, and allows you to counter steel if your using regidrago.
B -> A:
Basically togekiss with a grass weakness, except resistance to steel and ice, and some more tech like fake out. It being able to take ice attacks allows it to be a perfect follow me user for zygarde, and it taking water makes it way better for heatran. (And steel for alolan ninetales if your that goated)
Drops:
S- -> B:
By far one of the most overrated mons in my opinion, Weak too way to many common types(electric, steel, poision, ice) to be a reliable follow me user in my opinion.
S -> A:
Tornadus is definitly a good mon, but there are other reliable tw setup users with more utility (i.e Whims which has taunt, helping hand, tw, grass coverage, and is faster then tornadus, Talonflame who can move before tornadus and be more offensive, etc)
(Vouch for Reece's post)
& UR -> B:Basically what Reece said, surprised I've never seen anyone using rain in tour besides me. The only real downsides are the ban on muddy water which makes you need surf, and politoed not being able to run perish song which makes you run toxic. The only common core that you hard lose to is rillalucha, but slapping either slow indeedee or talonflame on a team will help you deal with them.
UR -> B:I disagree with the sets he mentioned but metagross with either av/weakness policy or even Life orb is amazing with the right team.
(Vouch for Adam3560's post)
Grimmsnarl UR to B:Prankster thunder wave allows for good counters to hyper offensive/Tailwind teams, has fake out/screens, and has stab sucker punch/foul play and spirit break which are two good types that are underutilized in this format.
Rises:
& UR -> B+:Both are really good stall iron defense leech seed abusers with ferrothorn having perfect synergy with rain, and celesteela with sand.
UR -> B/B+Ninetales has a lot of bad MUs (Mostly other weathers, TW) but with the only other stab ice mon being Kyurem and the only real offensive fairy pokemon being Tapu Lele it definitely has a niche. A simple core like regieleki, zygarde, ninetales, indeedee/togekiss can just spam spread moves that nothing besides maybe Inci can reliably take. On top of being a good offensive mon, it can also be a more bulky icy wind aurora veil set.
UR -> B+:Has the life orb quick guard tw FB brave bird set that allows it to be offensive tornadus, counters rillalucha, and allows you to counter steel if your using regidrago.
B -> A:Basically togekiss with a grass weakness, except resistance to steel and ice, and some more tech like fake out. It being able to take ice attacks allows it to be a perfect follow me user for zygarde, and it taking water makes it way better for heatran. (And steel for alolan ninetales if your that goated)
Drops:
S- -> B:By far one of the most overrated mons in my opinion, Weak too way to many common types(electric, steel, poision, ice) to be a reliable follow me user in my opinion.
S -> A:Tornadus is definitly a good mon, but there are other reliable tw setup users with more utility (i.e Whims which has taunt, helping hand, tw, grass coverage, and is faster then tornadus, Talonflame who can move before tornadus and be more offensive, etc)
IBM
Banned deucer.
Ok no offense to council and everything but the current VR and setcomp are kinda… not good… so I made new ones! I got the input of the community to make the setcomp and the vr is just my idea of where every mon in the meta is right now, you can ask me to explain why I put stuff where they are in the room or on disc, and I also added more tiers and mons because there isn’t enough room with the limited current vr. Everyone should post their own vrs too so we can get a community consensus! This one uses all the mons in the setcomp.
Alright that’s enough explanation let’s do it:
Setcomp (ask me if you want to add anything):
https://pokepast.es/ee854742434acfcb
Personal vr:
S
Indeedee-F
Tornadus
S-
Rillaboom
Victini
Kyurem-Black
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
A+
Whimsicott
Togekiss
Cinderace
Zygarde
Zeraora
Genesect
A
Regieleki
Naganadel
Nihilego
Pheromosa
Incineroar
A-
Amoonguss
Blastoise
Tyranitar
Volcanion
Zapdos
Zapdos-Galar
Tapu-Fini
B+
Diancie
Heatran
Regidrago
Mew
Dracovish
Volcarona
Celesteela
Tapu-Lele
B
Metagross
Talonflame
Kingdra
Politoed
Weezing-Galar
Sableye
Spectrier
Tsareena
Grimmsnarl
B-
Nidoking
Gastrodon
Snorlax
Landorus-T
Darmanitan-Galar
Ferrothorn
C+
Drapion
Lucario
Cresselia
Landorus
Ninetales-Alola
Rhyperior
C
Clefairy
Archeops
Porygon2
Suicune
Scolipede
Alright that’s enough explanation let’s do it:
Setcomp (ask me if you want to add anything):
https://pokepast.es/ee854742434acfcb
Personal vr:
S
Indeedee-F TornadusS-
Rillaboom Victini Kyurem-Black Urshifu-Rapid-StrikeA+
Whimsicott Togekiss Cinderace Zygarde Zeraora GenesectA
Regieleki Naganadel Nihilego Pheromosa IncineroarA-
Amoonguss Blastoise Tyranitar Volcanion Zapdos Zapdos-Galar Tapu-FiniB+
Diancie Heatran Regidrago Mew Dracovish Volcarona Celesteela Tapu-LeleB
Metagross Talonflame Kingdra Politoed Weezing-Galar Sableye Spectrier Tsareena GrimmsnarlB-
Nidoking Gastrodon Snorlax Landorus-T Darmanitan-Galar FerrothornC+
Drapion Lucario Cresselia Landorus Ninetales-Alola RhyperiorC
Clefairy Archeops Porygon2 Suicune Scolipede
Last edited:
MY Personal vr:
S
Indeedee-F
Tornadus
S-
Rillaboom
Victini
Kyurem-Black
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
A+
Whimsicott
Togekiss
Cinderace
Zygarde
Zeraora
Genesect
A
Naganadel
Nihilego
Pheromosa
Incineroar
Blastoise
A-
Tyranitar
Zapdos-Galar
Tapu-Fini
Regieleki
B+
Diancie
Dragapult
Heatran
Regidrago
Mew
Dracovish
Volcarona
Volcanion
Celesteela
Tapu-Lele
Zapdos
Amoonguss
B
Metagross
Talonflame
Kingdra
Politoed
Weezing-Galar
Sableye
Spectrier
Tsareena
Grimmsnarl
Hatterene
B-
Gastrodon
Snorlax
Landorus-T
Darmanitan-Galar
Ferrothorn
C+
Drapion
Lucario
Cresselia
Landorus
Ninetales-Alola
Rhyperior
Nidoking
C
Clefairy
Archeops
Porygon2
Suicune
Scolipede
Dusclops
s/o hoes for staying mad
S
Indeedee-F TornadusS-
Rillaboom Victini Kyurem-Black Urshifu-Rapid-StrikeA+
Whimsicott Togekiss Cinderace Zygarde Zeraora GenesectA
Naganadel Nihilego Pheromosa Incineroar BlastoiseA-
Tyranitar Zapdos-Galar Tapu-Fini RegielekiB+
Diancie Dragapult Heatran Regidrago Mew Dracovish Volcarona Volcanion Celesteela Tapu-Lele Zapdos AmoongussB
Metagross Talonflame Kingdra Politoed Weezing-Galar Sableye Spectrier Tsareena Grimmsnarl HattereneB-
Gastrodon Snorlax Landorus-T Darmanitan-Galar FerrothornC+
Drapion Lucario Cresselia Landorus Ninetales-Alola Rhyperior NidokingC
Clefairy Archeops Porygon2 Suicune Scolipede Dusclopss/o hoes for staying mad
It's fun to see that more people are being involved and active with here, wanted to post since others were and i had some new thoughts since Swiss has just came out for most and prepping for 2nd round.
Sample Submission
Psychic TerRAINThis is structured like Lkjc's post here since it was nicely set out and organised
Politoad
Best Rain setter NA no one can tell me otherwise. Helping hand+ Surf OHKOes almost anything that isn't Blastoise. HH+Hurriance does good damage against the grasses. No perish sucks but Toxic is also great for Blastoise. I prefer Icy Wind other something like Encore since it allows you to beat Prankster Tailwind teams, most noticeably the Torn+Nihi core.
Kingdra
Probably the best Rain mon no debate about it. I use Surf which obliterates most Cores with HH aid since you don't have to worry about surf teammate damage if everything is dead! Aforementioned Hurricane blasts would be checks Tsareena RIlla etc. Draco +HH drops all Haban Berry Dragons and OHKOs non misty terrain paired Seed Kyurem-B. Great way of speed control
Tapu Lele
Ev spread ensures that Lele lives a +1 Iron head from regular Genesect. 20SpA 2HKOs Regidrago with gleam. Light Screen is preferred for Victini being able to beat SpA threats like Moltres-G and Blastoise (I believe Adam3560 briefly summed it up in his last post about Victini). Gleam is to do damage to redirect+ Regidrago. Psyshock is just.. good. Skill Swap gives an edge over other slower Terrain users but Moonblast or Taunt can be used over it.
Victini
V-Create and Expanding force are self explanatory, they destroy anything that isn't resisted with a Life Orb boost. Bolt Strike nails Tapu Fini. Protect is key against fake out users. Very original!!
Synergies
+
Kingdra and Politoad is a no brainer since one can't function without the other in the sense of speed control. This core makes your brain go into autopilot monkey mode and click grasstype which is great for the additional teammates. Hurricane and HH is a great way for getting rid of the nuisance grass types for politoad to give other aid without being one shot. Most of the electric types in the tier are OHKOed by HH+Surf other than Timid Regieleki outspeeding Modest Kingdra in rain.
+
This thing aint S tier yet and i'm not sure why. Expanding Force+ terrain is so free. Any steel types are demolished by victini whilst lele can support the lil fire gremlin with screens against more specially offensive threats that Victini struggles against. Lele ensures that Psychic Terrain is always on the field. Lele can blast bulkier dragons that Victini finds it hard to deal with without Glaciate such as Zygarde.
There are only two real synergies as they act like two separate teams since they are such good pairings, however the odd time Kingdra+Victini or Politoad+ Lele is viable to block other weather sources but is not advised
Problems
- Resists everything and resets the terrain from Psychic. Means that Bolt Strike has to be used whilst Hydro can KO Victini on offensive variants of Fini. Telepathy Fini on the other hand is irrelevant to this comment.
- Misty Seed Kyurem-B eats around about everything since Draco damage is dropped in terrain and Freeze Drys. Rely on Victini V-Create which it can Roost off. Luckily this set has not peaked in popularity yet.
Replays
Vs Bagoftrix intertwined between Scarf Lele and Babri to see which was more successful
Vs ladder Lele+poli invalidates other weather sources and prankster
My VR
Those that are bolded are what i would add that is currently not reflected in the VR.
S
Kyurem-Black
Victini
S-
Rillaboom
Tornadus
Indeedee-F
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
A+
Whimsicott
Togekiss
Cinderace
Zygarde
Zeraora
Genesect
A
Naganadel
Nihilego
Pheromosa
Incineroar
Blastoise
A-
Tyranitar
Zapdos-Galar
Tapu-Fini
Regieleki
Tapu-Lele
Regidrago
B+
Diancie
Dragapult
Heatran
Mew
Dracovish
Volcanion
Celesteela (previous nomination i agree with)
Zapdos
Kartana (this thing is just good, amazing speed and offensive pressure+scarf outspeeds everything other than twind)
Amoonguss
Metagross
B
Talonflame
Kingdra
Politoed
Weezing-Galar
Sableye
Spectrier
Tsareena
Grimmsnarl
Hatterene
Volcarona
Snorlax
B-
Gastrodon
Landorus-T
Darmanitan-Galar
Ferrothorn (previous nomination i agree with)
Aegislash (wide Guard Aeg is great heatan bait popularity of regidrago/zygarde)
Landorus
C+
Drapion
Lucario
Cresselia
Ninetales-Alola
Rhyperior
Nidoqueen (does what Nidoking does but just better for the bulkier varient)
Marowak-Alola (lightning Rod good niche plus mahoosive attack. good for tr although isn;t relevant rn)
C
Clefairy
Archeops
Porygon2
Dusclops
Much love to the council and stuff going over and getting involved with everything, sorry for the long ass post but hope you enjoyed
Sample Submission
Psychic TerRAIN
Politoad
Best Rain setter NA no one can tell me otherwise. Helping hand+ Surf OHKOes almost anything that isn't Blastoise. HH+Hurriance does good damage against the grasses. No perish sucks but Toxic is also great for Blastoise. I prefer Icy Wind other something like Encore since it allows you to beat Prankster Tailwind teams, most noticeably the Torn+Nihi core.
Kingdra
Probably the best Rain mon no debate about it. I use Surf which obliterates most Cores with HH aid since you don't have to worry about surf teammate damage if everything is dead! Aforementioned Hurricane blasts would be checks Tsareena RIlla etc. Draco +HH drops all Haban Berry Dragons and OHKOs non misty terrain paired Seed Kyurem-B. Great way of speed control
Tapu Lele
Ev spread ensures that Lele lives a +1 Iron head from regular Genesect. 20SpA 2HKOs Regidrago with gleam. Light Screen is preferred for Victini being able to beat SpA threats like Moltres-G and Blastoise (I believe Adam3560 briefly summed it up in his last post about Victini). Gleam is to do damage to redirect+ Regidrago. Psyshock is just.. good. Skill Swap gives an edge over other slower Terrain users but Moonblast or Taunt can be used over it.
Victini
V-Create and Expanding force are self explanatory, they destroy anything that isn't resisted with a Life Orb boost. Bolt Strike nails Tapu Fini. Protect is key against fake out users. Very original!!
Synergies
+ Kingdra and Politoad is a no brainer since one can't function without the other in the sense of speed control. This core makes your brain go into autopilot monkey mode and click grasstype which is great for the additional teammates. Hurricane and HH is a great way for getting rid of the nuisance grass types for politoad to give other aid without being one shot. Most of the electric types in the tier are OHKOed by HH+Surf other than Timid Regieleki outspeeding Modest Kingdra in rain.
+ This thing aint S tier yet and i'm not sure why. Expanding Force+ terrain is so free. Any steel types are demolished by victini whilst lele can support the lil fire gremlin with screens against more specially offensive threats that Victini struggles against. Lele ensures that Psychic Terrain is always on the field. Lele can blast bulkier dragons that Victini finds it hard to deal with without Glaciate such as Zygarde.
There are only two real synergies as they act like two separate teams since they are such good pairings, however the odd time Kingdra+Victini or Politoad+ Lele is viable to block other weather sources but is not advised
Problems
- Resists everything and resets the terrain from Psychic. Means that Bolt Strike has to be used whilst Hydro can KO Victini on offensive variants of Fini. Telepathy Fini on the other hand is irrelevant to this comment. - Misty Seed Kyurem-B eats around about everything since Draco damage is dropped in terrain and Freeze Drys. Rely on Victini V-Create which it can Roost off. Luckily this set has not peaked in popularity yet.Replays
Vs Bagoftrix intertwined between Scarf Lele and Babri to see which was more successful
Vs ladder Lele+poli invalidates other weather sources and prankster
My VR
Those that are bolded are what i would add that is currently not reflected in the VR.
S
Kyurem-Black VictiniS-
Rillaboom Tornadus Indeedee-F Urshifu-Rapid-StrikeA+
Whimsicott Togekiss Cinderace Zygarde Zeraora GenesectA
Naganadel Nihilego Pheromosa Incineroar BlastoiseA-
Tyranitar Zapdos-Galar Tapu-Fini Regieleki Tapu-Lele RegidragoB+
Diancie Dragapult Heatran Mew Dracovish Volcanion Celesteela (previous nomination i agree with) Zapdos Kartana (this thing is just good, amazing speed and offensive pressure+scarf outspeeds everything other than twind) Amoonguss MetagrossB
Talonflame Kingdra Politoed Weezing-Galar Sableye Spectrier Tsareena Grimmsnarl Hatterene Volcarona Snorlax B-
Gastrodon Landorus-T Darmanitan-Galar Ferrothorn (previous nomination i agree with) Aegislash (wide Guard Aeg is great heatan bait popularity of regidrago/zygarde) LandorusC+
Drapion Lucario Cresselia Ninetales-Alola Rhyperior Nidoqueen (does what Nidoking does but just better for the bulkier varient) Marowak-Alola (lightning Rod good niche plus mahoosive attack. good for tr although isn;t relevant rn)C
Clefairy Archeops Porygon2 DusclopsMuch love to the council and stuff going over and getting involved with everything, sorry for the long ass post but hope you enjoyed
Lucario (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Meteor Mash
Whimsicott (M) @ Quick Claw
Ability: Infiltrator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball
- Psychic
- Beat Up
This is my 2v2 team, it is not perfect but still is pretty good. This lucario has justified. The idea here is to beat up the lucario using hyper fast whimsicott and the mere damage healed by leftovers. This gives a massive boost in attack stat and can easily sweep the opponent. the whimsicott also has some good moves to support lucario. Please suggest any improvisation.
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Meteor Mash
Whimsicott (M) @ Quick Claw
Ability: Infiltrator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball
- Psychic
- Beat Up
This is my 2v2 team, it is not perfect but still is pretty good. This lucario has justified. The idea here is to beat up the lucario using hyper fast whimsicott and the mere damage healed by leftovers. This gives a massive boost in attack stat and can easily sweep the opponent. the whimsicott also has some good moves to support lucario. Please suggest any improvisation.
Hey KingCosma!
I like your idea of a justified set up core with Lucario and Whimsicott, however some things can be refined so I'll give some feedback on this :)
Firstly, we have Lucario. Since Lucario is justified and will always be getting a boost, it does not need Swords Dance. This means that Protect can be used instead so that you have an immunity to Fake Out for a turn so it doesn't get OHKO'd instantly. The moves you have already are perfectly fine and optimal, but you could enterchange between Extreme Speed and Rock Slide for whatever circumstance from experience.
Next, to help out Lucario since its rather slow, we can replace Psychic with Tailwind; Psychic doesn't hit much that Moonblast doesn't. Tailwind aids Lucario highly as you can Protect first turn then get a Tailwind off. This makes Lucario more threatening as nothing will outspeed it, then can launch off massive Beat Up boosted attacks without being hit for big damage before moving. With this you would change Whismicotts ability to Prankster. Either one of Moonblast or Energy Ball has to go, it never runs dual stab as it sorta doesn't need it. For preference i use Energy Ball instead of Moonblast and replace it with one of either Protect, Taunt, and Encore. As you are Tailwind, i'd recommend Taunt to ensure that there is no opposing Trick Room set up. Protect is the next best option as it also helps it prevent Fake Out pressure. The item of choice can be changed to something like Occa Berry or Wiki Berry to give Whimsicott some more longevity
Finally, i wanted to mention that you could do the exact same strategy, but with Justified Terrakion instead!
I say this because Terrakion in my opinion fits better with Whismicott as it beats all the Fire- and Steel types that KO Whismicott, whilst having a greater speed meaning it can function well outside of Trick Room if Tailwind is too hard to get up. Terrakion has STAB dual hitting move Rock Slide, a massive Close Combat and other great coverage you can use such as Poison Jab, Megahorn, and Stomping Tantrum which help it beat more than what Lucario personally can from experience as it can beat most of the Redirection in the tier which heavily disadvantage your strategy with it.
Lucario does have benefits however over Terrakion like walling Rillaboom which is exceedingly popular now after Pool League and the current Swiss tour as it has a better defensive typing for this format. This can be beat by your other options covering Rillaboom as a check such as Victini or Volcarona, it all depends on what your two other Pokemon are!
In case you wanted to keep Lucario, I ensured I made it optimal with this paste HERE
If you wanted a new version of your team with Terrakion, the paste is also HERE
Hope you enjoy your new and improved team, have fun!
I like your idea of a justified set up core with Lucario and Whimsicott, however some things can be refined so I'll give some feedback on this :)
Firstly, we have Lucario. Since Lucario is justified and will always be getting a boost, it does not need Swords Dance. This means that Protect can be used instead so that you have an immunity to Fake Out for a turn so it doesn't get OHKO'd instantly. The moves you have already are perfectly fine and optimal, but you could enterchange between Extreme Speed and Rock Slide for whatever circumstance from experience.
Next, to help out Lucario since its rather slow, we can replace Psychic with Tailwind; Psychic doesn't hit much that Moonblast doesn't. Tailwind aids Lucario highly as you can Protect first turn then get a Tailwind off. This makes Lucario more threatening as nothing will outspeed it, then can launch off massive Beat Up boosted attacks without being hit for big damage before moving. With this you would change Whismicotts ability to Prankster. Either one of Moonblast or Energy Ball has to go, it never runs dual stab as it sorta doesn't need it. For preference i use Energy Ball instead of Moonblast and replace it with one of either Protect, Taunt, and Encore. As you are Tailwind, i'd recommend Taunt to ensure that there is no opposing Trick Room set up. Protect is the next best option as it also helps it prevent Fake Out pressure. The item of choice can be changed to something like Occa Berry or Wiki Berry to give Whimsicott some more longevity
Finally, i wanted to mention that you could do the exact same strategy, but with Justified Terrakion instead!
I say this because Terrakion in my opinion fits better with Whismicott as it beats all the Fire- and Steel types that KO Whismicott, whilst having a greater speed meaning it can function well outside of Trick Room if Tailwind is too hard to get up. Terrakion has STAB dual hitting move Rock Slide, a massive Close Combat and other great coverage you can use such as Poison Jab, Megahorn, and Stomping Tantrum which help it beat more than what Lucario personally can from experience as it can beat most of the Redirection in the tier which heavily disadvantage your strategy with it.
Lucario does have benefits however over Terrakion like walling Rillaboom which is exceedingly popular now after Pool League and the current Swiss tour as it has a better defensive typing for this format. This can be beat by your other options covering Rillaboom as a check such as Victini or Volcarona, it all depends on what your two other Pokemon are!
In case you wanted to keep Lucario, I ensured I made it optimal with this paste HERE
If you wanted a new version of your team with Terrakion, the paste is also HERE
Hope you enjoy your new and improved team, have fun!
Sample Submission
Standard Rain
Remasted version of the team I started 2v2 with, not the best team competitively but an easy team to pick up and learn the meta with.
Standard Rain
Remasted version of the team I started 2v2 with, not the best team competitively but an easy team to pick up and learn the meta with.
KingdraMuddy water being banned definitely hinders kingdra, but it still outspeeds anything in tw, and water/dragon stab hits anything at least some what hard. Ev'd to outspeed 252 timid regieleki.
PolitoedBulky rain setter, gets access to toxic and helping hand. I usually use aguav on this set but eletric/grass resist berry could work as well.
FerrothornSteel/Grass is a really good defensive type in 2v2, and after a iron defense and some leech seeds it can 2v1 a lot of teams.
Indeedee-FBulky follow me + psychic terain support, min speed to underspeed most rillas. Originally was talonflame, but that hard loses to ursh water
+ fake out.
Leads
+ - Rain + swift swim abuser + - Allows ferro to setup while in the rain, also allows for toxic + leech seed chip damage + - Allows you to setup a iron defense or leech seed with follow me; probably best best against urshifu water + - Allows you to be offensive with kingdra and tank hits with indeedee; mostly used in situations where you want to use ferro + indeedee but can't for some reason like they have inciSample submission for y'all, this is my first(second if you count lkjc godsquad) submission here so I made sure to make it really original(This is a joke)
This team is built around the commonly used core of togekiss+nihilego.
Togekiss serves as a support pokemon, and uses follow me and tailwind to help its hard hitting teammates of nihilego and urshifu, while defensively checking powerful pokemon like urshifu-rapid-strike and rillaboom by virtue of its typing and bulk. This togekiss has serene grace and air slash for a better chance to win 1v1 vs things like victini or urshifu if tailwind is up.
Nihilego is the second pokemon of this team, and completes the very common core of nihilego+togekiss. Meteor beam is a very strong move that nihilego can pretty much always fire off with togekiss/incineroar supporting it. Play is pretty simple, you almost always lead with meteor beam as a +1 meteor beam does the same amount of damage as a super effective sludge bomb.
Urshifu-rapid-strike offensively checks pokemon that annoy togekiss+nihilego like zygarde or heatran, while getting amazing general use out of togekiss' redirection and incineroar's fake out. Urshifu synergizes extremely well with togekiss and incineroar, which makes it the perfect third pokemon for this team.
Incineroar finishes up the team by patching up some very needed holes. It singlehandedly beats indeedee+victini, one of the scariest cores right now, deals with genesect, and prevents rillaboom from one-shotting ursihfu with an intimidate drop. Incineroar's fake out is invaluable in letting urshifu wreack havoc, and its high special defense with an assault vest let it take on annoying pokemon for the team like regieleki or naganadel.
Cores:
+
Follow me+meteor beam=win, I sure love math. Togekiss helps nihilego with rillaboom and urshifu, and nihilego helps togekiss with kyurem-black and incineroar.
+
Fire+water, dark+fighting, fake out+urshifu, everything you could ask for in a core right now. Urshifu-rapid-strike+incineroar is easy to use, and has good matchups across the board. You do wanna watch out for regidrago and tapu fini using these which is partly why we have togekiss and nihilego.
+
While nihilego and togekiss is the most common core, incineroar deals with genesect and rillaboom for nihilego and let it do nihilego things to great success. You'll be using nihilego+incineroar less than nihilego+togekiss due to it pretty much auto-losing to zygarde or urshifu, but these are nevertheless two pokemon who support each other well.
Issues:
-: very good pokemon in this meta. Zeraora+urshifu-rapid-strike may beat this team with optimal play but we have things like togekiss for urshifu-rapid and incineroar for zeraora that will make many players hesitate before straight clicking zeraora urshifu. Togekiss also lives a non-life orb zeraora's plasma fists, helping out with the matchup somewhat.
-: togekiss is our only speed control and so electroweb regieleki plus something like zygarde can be hard to handle with this team. Incineroar still can fake out the regieleki to let urshifu get off an attack but regieleki is nevertheless a liability.
Togekiss serves as a support pokemon, and uses follow me and tailwind to help its hard hitting teammates of nihilego and urshifu, while defensively checking powerful pokemon like urshifu-rapid-strike and rillaboom by virtue of its typing and bulk. This togekiss has serene grace and air slash for a better chance to win 1v1 vs things like victini or urshifu if tailwind is up. Nihilego is the second pokemon of this team, and completes the very common core of nihilego+togekiss. Meteor beam is a very strong move that nihilego can pretty much always fire off with togekiss/incineroar supporting it. Play is pretty simple, you almost always lead with meteor beam as a +1 meteor beam does the same amount of damage as a super effective sludge bomb. Urshifu-rapid-strike offensively checks pokemon that annoy togekiss+nihilego like zygarde or heatran, while getting amazing general use out of togekiss' redirection and incineroar's fake out. Urshifu synergizes extremely well with togekiss and incineroar, which makes it the perfect third pokemon for this team. Incineroar finishes up the team by patching up some very needed holes. It singlehandedly beats indeedee+victini, one of the scariest cores right now, deals with genesect, and prevents rillaboom from one-shotting ursihfu with an intimidate drop. Incineroar's fake out is invaluable in letting urshifu wreack havoc, and its high special defense with an assault vest let it take on annoying pokemon for the team like regieleki or naganadel.Cores:
+Follow me+meteor beam=win, I sure love math. Togekiss helps nihilego with rillaboom and urshifu, and nihilego helps togekiss with kyurem-black and incineroar.
+Fire+water, dark+fighting, fake out+urshifu, everything you could ask for in a core right now. Urshifu-rapid-strike+incineroar is easy to use, and has good matchups across the board. You do wanna watch out for regidrago and tapu fini using these which is partly why we have togekiss and nihilego.
+While nihilego and togekiss is the most common core, incineroar deals with genesect and rillaboom for nihilego and let it do nihilego things to great success. You'll be using nihilego+incineroar less than nihilego+togekiss due to it pretty much auto-losing to zygarde or urshifu, but these are nevertheless two pokemon who support each other well.
Issues:
-
: very good pokemon in this meta. Zeraora+urshifu-rapid-strike may beat this team with optimal play but we have things like togekiss for urshifu-rapid and incineroar for zeraora that will make many players hesitate before straight clicking zeraora urshifu. Togekiss also lives a non-life orb zeraora's plasma fists, helping out with the matchup somewhat.-
: togekiss is our only speed control and so electroweb regieleki plus something like zygarde can be hard to handle with this team. Incineroar still can fake out the regieleki to let urshifu get off an attack but regieleki is nevertheless a liability.
Well, I am gonna share my somewhat meme team (lol, funny name)(plz don't tell me it's bad,just my meme team)
Big thicc boi (Snorlax) (M) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Brick Break
Well he's my main mon
Just Belly drum and then NUKE Nothing can live really nothing(joking)
Rocky (Diancie) @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
- Helping Hand
Now here snorlax's helper
She takes care of diamond storm and rest... For obvious reasons
Try killin me (Dusclops) @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Trick Room
- Poltergeist
- Helping Hand
- Dark Pulse
Or
Try killin me (Cresselia) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Moonlight
- Helping Hand
- Moonblast
(I prefer clops tho)
Choose anyone ONE in your team well their moves are obvious for regidrago
Ok no faires (Regidrago) @ Dragon Fang
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Dragon Energy
- Protect
- Explosion
- Hammer Arm
Well he's ridiculous really ridiculous
See even chansey feels it's power
252+ SpA Dragon Fang Dragon's Maw Regidrago Helping Hand Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 382-451 (54.3 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
that with special investment,Now chansey on eviolite is the best special wall in entire game
And it 2 ohkos it really staggering just take care opposition has no fairies
Now can you give me suggestions to improve my team
P.S. surely i forgot the paste
Let's finish everything in turn 2 (pokepast.es)
Let's finish everything in turn 2
or
or
Big thicc boi (Snorlax) (M) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Brick Break
Well he's my main mon
Just Belly drum and then NUKE Nothing can live really nothing(joking)
Rocky (Diancie) @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
- Helping Hand
Now here snorlax's helper
She takes care of diamond storm and rest... For obvious reasons
Try killin me (Dusclops) @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Trick Room
- Poltergeist
- Helping Hand
- Dark Pulse
Or
Try killin me (Cresselia) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Moonlight
- Helping Hand
- Moonblast
(I prefer clops tho)
Choose anyone ONE in your team well their moves are obvious for regidrago
Ok no faires (Regidrago) @ Dragon Fang
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Dragon Energy
- Protect
- Explosion
- Hammer Arm
Well he's ridiculous really ridiculous
See even chansey feels it's power
252+ SpA Dragon Fang Dragon's Maw Regidrago Helping Hand Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 382-451 (54.3 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
that with special investment,Now chansey on eviolite is the best special wall in entire game
And it 2 ohkos it really staggering just take care opposition has no fairies
Only two pairups possible
Easy peasy
Well belly drum turn 1 and DESTROY turn 2 helping is never discouraged but beware of well ... protects
or
It's main pairup cuz it rarely fails trick room protect turn 1 and helping hand dragon energy turn 2
Easy peasy
Well belly drum turn 1 and DESTROY turn 2 helping is never discouraged but beware of well ... protects
or It's main pairup cuz it rarely fails trick room protect turn 1 and helping hand dragon energy turn 2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519163106-q41gknpnn4f56504r7ylp2ljzs74ctmpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519166056
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519166345
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519168787
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519168215
Sorry he was challenging me again and again
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519175013
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519166056
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519166345
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519168787
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519168215
Sorry he was challenging me again and again
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1519175013
Let's finish everything in turn 2 (pokepast.es)
Last edited:
Hey Hi nhi , here to give some feedback on your team!
Big beefy boy, he needs some protection since everyone wants to focus him once you reveal Belly Drum. For this i'd remove Brick Break for Protect.
Earthquake can be fatal for Diancie as its your teammate so i'd change this for High Horsepower. Custap can be revoked if you are using Trick Room to something like Silk Scarf.
Depending on what you want, you can also have Trick Room on this for Helping Hand. This is due to Snorlax Belly Drumming not needing any more boosting in attack as it will KO most it targets. Trick Toom is self explanatory and can make Snorlax move first with its boosted attack. I prefair Moonblast over Dazzling Gleam as the targets for this attack usually do not have redirecting counterparts which condenses their role. Could consider Weakness Policy as an alternative for an item as Snorlax can deal with Steel-type threats, but only do so if you feel correct using it. The EV spread guarantees a 2HKO on Kyurem-b whilst rest is dumped into Special Defense
Underrated Pokemon, the only issue i have with this set is Dark Pulse and Poltegeist. You could remove this for many other options such as Pain Split for longevity, Taunt to ensure no other mon can thwart your condition or set up on you, Haze to revoke set up (although not common) , and Wil-o Wisp to deal with physical Fighting-types that Snorlax struggle with. Night Shade is also a good way for consistent chip for teammates so make that a primary move
Take into consideration with your calcs that this is obviously doubles, so you need to click the doubles format to ensure the calc is accurate!
252+ SpA Dragon Fang Dragon's Maw Regidrago Helping Hand Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 288-339 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - even though Chansey unfortunately is an irrelevant target
I doubt that you want Explosion on this set as you are pairing Regi with some passive setters such as Cresselia which without any sort of power they will just fall over. As well as this, Regidrago's teammates cover steel-types meaning Hammer arm can be substituted for Thunder/Fire Fang for Tapu Fini or Ferrothorn respectively.
My Suggetion
I feel like you are running a Bulky Trick Room archetype, so i would potentially suggest to you run Stakataka for Trickroom rather than Dusclops as this accounts for the Fairy- and Steel-type threats that Regidraco and Diancie both fear as it makes quite a good offensive core if you switch around the nature and items with Diancie making it weakness policy.
Pastes
Your improved!
Your improved V2!
Feel free to message me for further clarity or if you have any questions, have fun!
Big beefy boy, he needs some protection since everyone wants to focus him once you reveal Belly Drum. For this i'd remove Brick Break for Protect.
Earthquake can be fatal for Diancie as its your teammate so i'd change this for High Horsepower. Custap can be revoked if you are using Trick Room to something like Silk Scarf.
Depending on what you want, you can also have Trick Room on this for Helping Hand. This is due to Snorlax Belly Drumming not needing any more boosting in attack as it will KO most it targets. Trick Toom is self explanatory and can make Snorlax move first with its boosted attack. I prefair Moonblast over Dazzling Gleam as the targets for this attack usually do not have redirecting counterparts which condenses their role. Could consider Weakness Policy as an alternative for an item as Snorlax can deal with Steel-type threats, but only do so if you feel correct using it. The EV spread guarantees a 2HKO on Kyurem-b whilst rest is dumped into Special Defense
Underrated Pokemon, the only issue i have with this set is Dark Pulse and Poltegeist. You could remove this for many other options such as Pain Split for longevity, Taunt to ensure no other mon can thwart your condition or set up on you, Haze to revoke set up (although not common) , and Wil-o Wisp to deal with physical Fighting-types that Snorlax struggle with. Night Shade is also a good way for consistent chip for teammates so make that a primary move
Take into consideration with your calcs that this is obviously doubles, so you need to click the doubles format to ensure the calc is accurate!
252+ SpA Dragon Fang Dragon's Maw Regidrago Helping Hand Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 288-339 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - even though Chansey unfortunately is an irrelevant target
I doubt that you want Explosion on this set as you are pairing Regi with some passive setters such as Cresselia which without any sort of power they will just fall over. As well as this, Regidrago's teammates cover steel-types meaning Hammer arm can be substituted for Thunder/Fire Fang for Tapu Fini or Ferrothorn respectively.
My Suggetion
I feel like you are running a Bulky Trick Room archetype, so i would potentially suggest to you run Stakataka for Trickroom rather than Dusclops as this accounts for the Fairy- and Steel-type threats that Regidraco and Diancie both fear as it makes quite a good offensive core if you switch around the nature and items with Diancie making it weakness policy.
Pastes
Your improved!
Your improved V2!
Feel free to message me for further clarity or if you have any questions, have fun!
Thanks Reece
Now straight to the point
In your pastes
are given to
Which even though having more power than
takes some health (which if someone quacky is there gets hard to deal with)
Secondly i gave
to counter well steel types mainly genesect cuz i lost to one in match one of this team
Funnily enough i gave
in order to move first but the trick room works well too
Lastly, thanks for your suggestion I just hate
well 1) I don't like the design 2) just because his typing leaves lot to be desired
And lastly cuz i personally favor dusclops and cresslia
Anyway thanks for the suggestions
P.S. i just forgot i have the polte or dark pulse (tho keep pulse indeedee)
It's good idea to add will of wisp
I am sorry for that mistake (cuz didn't knew doubles and singles have different calcs until now)
Now straight to the point
In your pastes
are given to Which even though having more power than
takes some health Secondly i gave
to counter well steel types Funnily enough i gave
in order to move first but the trick room works well tooLastly, thanks for your suggestion I just hate
well 1) I don't like the design 2) just because his typing leaves lot to be desiredAnd lastly cuz i personally favor dusclops and cresslia
Anyway thanks for the suggestions
P.S. i just forgot i have the polte or dark pulse (tho keep pulse indeedee)
It's good idea to add will of wisp
Last edited:
thanksHey KingCosma!
I like your idea of a justified set up core with Lucario and Whimsicott, however some things can be refined so I'll give some feedback on this :)
Firstly, we have Lucario. Since Lucario is justified and will always be getting a boost, it does not need Swords Dance. This means that Protect can be used instead so that you have an immunity to Fake Out for a turn so it doesn't get OHKO'd instantly. The moves you have already are perfectly fine and optimal, but you could enterchange between Extreme Speed and Rock Slide for whatever circumstance from experience.
Next, to help out Lucario since its rather slow, we can replace Psychic with Tailwind; Psychic doesn't hit much that Moonblast doesn't. Tailwind aids Lucario highly as you can Protect first turn then get a Tailwind off. This makes Lucario more threatening as nothing will outspeed it, then can launch off massive Beat Up boosted attacks without being hit for big damage before moving. With this you would change Whismicotts ability to Prankster. Either one of Moonblast or Energy Ball has to go, it never runs dual stab as it sorta doesn't need it. For preference i use Energy Ball instead of Moonblast and replace it with one of either Protect, Taunt, and Encore. As you are Tailwind, i'd recommend Taunt to ensure that there is no opposing Trick Room set up. Protect is the next best option as it also helps it prevent Fake Out pressure. The item of choice can be changed to something like Occa Berry or Wiki Berry to give Whimsicott some more longevity
Finally, i wanted to mention that you could do the exact same strategy, but with Justified Terrakion instead!
I say this because Terrakion in my opinion fits better with Whismicott as it beats all the Fire- and Steel types that KO Whismicott, whilst having a greater speed meaning it can function well outside of Trick Room if Tailwind is too hard to get up. Terrakion has STAB dual hitting move Rock Slide, a massive Close Combat and other great coverage you can use such as Poison Jab, Megahorn, and Stomping Tantrum which help it beat more than what Lucario personally can from experience as it can beat most of the Redirection in the tier which heavily disadvantage your strategy with it.
Lucario does have benefits however over Terrakion like walling Rillaboom which is exceedingly popular now after Pool League and the current Swiss tour as it has a better defensive typing for this format. This can be beat by your other options covering Rillaboom as a check such as Victini or Volcarona, it all depends on what your two other Pokemon are!
In case you wanted to keep Lucario, I ensured I made it optimal with this paste HERE
If you wanted a new version of your team with Terrakion, the paste is also HERE
Hope you enjoy your new and improved team, have fun!
Just wanna ask isn't babiri berry better
Hello everybody,
Today i wanna tell everyone a new strat (not mine tho saw someone using it in ladder)
Torkoal @ Charcoal
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Protect
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
here's Torkoal the erupter (well literally)
And here's
Oranguru @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt/Energy ball/Focus blast or any coverage move
Now in this set firstly you set up trick room while protect and then
erupt and instruct
thats it
nearly no one can live a charcoal and sun boosted eruption and nearly no one can live two
I am back with a new plan which proves Oranguru is versatile and fits into many teams
This teams with another teammate
Oranguru @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Symbiosis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Focus Blast
- Brick Break
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
Rather non standard oranguru set
Wondering why brick break is on the set
Read ahead
Diggersby @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- High Horsepower
- Body Slam
- Knock Off
Still don't understand
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1536686924-pk6z13h0qwhaatg1brvbl1rmeph3w56pw
Can you now understand
Today i wanna tell everyone a new strat (
Torkoal @ Charcoal
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Protect
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
here's Torkoal the erupter (well literally)
And here's
Oranguru @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt/Energy ball/Focus blast or any coverage move
Now in this set firstly you set up trick room while protect and then
erupt and instruct
thats it
nearly no one can live a charcoal and sun boosted eruption and nearly no one can live two
I am back with a new plan which proves Oranguru is versatile and fits into many teams
This teams with another teammate
Oranguru @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Symbiosis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Focus Blast
- Brick Break
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
Rather non standard oranguru set
Wondering why brick break is on the set
Read ahead
Diggersby @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- High Horsepower
- Body Slam
- Knock Off
Still don't understand
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1536686924-pk6z13h0qwhaatg1brvbl1rmeph3w56pw
Can you now understand
Last edited:
Hey. Mubs here. In light of upcoming tournaments such as OM Premier League and 2v2 Ladder Tournament II, theres been some changes with regards to updating our resources and getting people on the same page on what is to come up next.
I’d like to thank the likes of Morgan, IBM, Reece, Adam3560, Chris32156, Blanched, Vrji, and London13 for their assistance in ideas for new resources and VR shifts. I’d also like to congratulate Blanched, IBM, and London13 for their additions to the VR Council.
(also London13 to the tiering council)
Viability Rankings:
Here are the VR Shifts, and what the VR now looks like with them implemented.
These aren’t final. We’ll be updating them within the next week or two in accordance to suggestions inside and outside of the council. As always, feedback is appreciated.
Other Resources:
https://pokepast.es/7191dc9f82500042
Through some work in the discord, we’ve made a team compendium in an effort to give newer players a wider array of options with regards to what teams they can start out with. Such a thing has been a concern for quite a bit of time, and I think the work we've done here will help alleviate that concern as we work towards making up-to-date samples.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yyQKnNIRN7CFZ71m0z5k9qv8HLI2MDDXvQ9JrugcEkI/edit#gid=0
2v2 Team Tournaments overall spreadsheet. Thanks to IBM for maintenance.
http://spo.ink/2v2doublessheet
We're looking to incorporate all relevant information with regard to 2v2 Doubles into one easily accessible spreadsheet. Shoot me a DM if you want to be added to the team here.
Also, I'd like to congratulate Reece and Itchy for being added to 2v2 QC. We hope to get things back up and running in that area.
Tournaments:
Thanks to the help of IBM and Morgan, we have a projected schedule:
Alongside that, OMPL has their manager signups in 3 days, and OMWC is in September / October.
There's been a lot of concern with regard to the state of the metagame right now, which is why the 2v2 Council has elected to send out a form in order to gauge where the community is at. We're looking for your opinions on how you feel with regard to the metagame as a whole, alongside certain metagame threats. As always, your input is much appreciated. We're looking towards having this form out for around 4-5 days and taking tiering action before the likes of OMPL and 2v2LT start up.
As always, thank you for reading, and have a nice day. Mubs out.
I’d like to thank the likes of Morgan, IBM, Reece, Adam3560, Chris32156, Blanched, Vrji, and London13 for their assistance in ideas for new resources and VR shifts. I’d also like to congratulate Blanched, IBM, and London13 for their additions to the VR Council.
(also London13 to the tiering council)
Viability Rankings:
Here are the VR Shifts, and what the VR now looks like with them implemented.
Code:
Politoed UR -> B
Kingdra UR -> B
Metagross UR -> B
Tapu-Lele B+ -> A-/A
Kyurem-Black A+ -> S-
Victini A+ -> S-
Togekiss S -> S-
Kyurem-Black A+ -> S-
Victini A+ -> S-
Heatran B+ -> A-
Pheromosa S -> S-/A+
Tyranitar A to A-
Ferrothorn UR -> B
Celesteela UR -> B+
Ninetales-A UR -> B
Blastoise B -> A
Weavile UR -> C+
Sableye B to B+
Regidrago B to B+
Cresselia B -> B+
Moltres-Galar -> B+
Incineroar -> AS
Tornadus
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
S-
Genesect
Indeedee-F
Kyurem-Black
Pheromosa
Victini
A+
Regieleki
Togekiss
Whimsicott
Zygarde
A
Blastoise
Cinderace
Incineroar
Naganadel
Nihilego
A-
Amoonguss
Heatran
Landorus-T
Rillaboom
Tapu-Lele
Tyranitar
Volcanion
Zapdos
Zapdos-Galar
Zeraora
B+
Celesteela
Cresselia
Diancie
Mew
Moltres-Galar
Regidrago
Tapu-Fini
Weezing-Galar
Volcarona
B
Dracovish
Ferrothorn
Kingdra
Landorus
Metagross
Nidoking
Ninetales-Alola
Politoed
Porygon2
Rhyperior
Sableye
Suicune
Tsareena
C+
Weavile
Tornadus Urshifu-Rapid-StrikeS-
Genesect Indeedee-F Kyurem-Black Pheromosa VictiniA+
Regieleki Togekiss Whimsicott ZygardeA
Blastoise Cinderace Incineroar Naganadel NihilegoA-
Amoonguss Heatran Landorus-T Rillaboom Tapu-Lele Tyranitar Volcanion Zapdos Zapdos-Galar ZeraoraB+
Celesteela Cresselia Diancie Mew Moltres-Galar Regidrago Tapu-Fini Weezing-Galar VolcaronaB
Dracovish Ferrothorn Kingdra Landorus Metagross Nidoking Ninetales-Alola Politoed Porygon2 Rhyperior Sableye Suicune TsareenaC+
WeavileRillaboom: A -> A+
These aren’t final. We’ll be updating them within the next week or two in accordance to suggestions inside and outside of the council. As always, feedback is appreciated.
Other Resources:
https://pokepast.es/7191dc9f82500042
Through some work in the discord, we’ve made a team compendium in an effort to give newer players a wider array of options with regards to what teams they can start out with. Such a thing has been a concern for quite a bit of time, and I think the work we've done here will help alleviate that concern as we work towards making up-to-date samples.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yyQKnNIRN7CFZ71m0z5k9qv8HLI2MDDXvQ9JrugcEkI/edit#gid=0
2v2 Team Tournaments overall spreadsheet. Thanks to IBM for maintenance.
http://spo.ink/2v2doublessheet
We're looking to incorporate all relevant information with regard to 2v2 Doubles into one easily accessible spreadsheet. Shoot me a DM if you want to be added to the team here.
Also, I'd like to congratulate Reece and Itchy for being added to 2v2 QC. We hope to get things back up and running in that area.
Tournaments:
Thanks to the help of IBM and Morgan, we have a projected schedule:
- 2v2 Ladder Tournament II - Within the next few days - a week
- 2v2 Summer Individual (Currently Seasonal) - May 15
- 2v2 Doubles Premier League III - June 12th
- 2v2 Fall Individual (Currently Seasonal) - September 4
- 2v2 Classic III: SM Cup Signups - October 23rd
Alongside that, OMPL has their manager signups in 3 days, and OMWC is in September / October.
There's been a lot of concern with regard to the state of the metagame right now, which is why the 2v2 Council has elected to send out a form in order to gauge where the community is at. We're looking for your opinions on how you feel with regard to the metagame as a whole, alongside certain metagame threats. As always, your input is much appreciated. We're looking towards having this form out for around 4-5 days and taking tiering action before the likes of OMPL and 2v2LT start up.
As always, thank you for reading, and have a nice day. Mubs out.
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>>>2v2 Doubles C&C<<<
Hello all, with the new additions to our QC team we are looking to expand the amount of analysis work we have for this section!
How am I able to contribute?:
- It's quite simple really, all you need to do is to head on over to the Other Metagames Reservation Thread and then say which Pokemon on our tier list that you would like to write about. Everything is available for analysis work!
- If you are interested in doing so, make sure you highlight the set(s) you would like to write about in a hidden format that doesn't take up room
- When you have posted your request for a Pokemon, either a metagame moderator in C&C or one of the 2v2 Doubles QC members will confirm that you can begin the skeleton of the analysis by liking your post.
- From here, you have a 48 hour period to make a [WIP] tagged thread and begin creating the skeleton.
- You can reserve two Pokemon at a time and once your analysis as passed the QC stage, you are inclined to reserve another one if you wish!
- Please only reserve Pokemon if you are either familiar with the meta OR know how the Pokemon should work, we would like to see more newer people take this role in analysis's so feel free to ask anybody for the set that should be worked on!
I have created and updated a brand new Reservation Index for everyone to be able to access and use at any point of time so that our community is knowledgeable and updated on the C&C section. This will be actively updated in corresponding with who, and what is reserved in our format. Please use this as a tool to find out which you would like to reserve as any are open for analysis work as long as a set is provided that is well known. If a set is more or less unconventional, please provide a description of why it should be considered and a QC member will get back to you. Please bare in mind that this only for C+ tier until B+ tier as we would like to keep top tier Pokemon with as much relevant information as possible.
With that, we have priority for Pokemon that should be reserved, such as the A tier to S tier Pokemon due to the QC team wanting the most pliable tier definers as updated for resource purposes for upcoming events such as 2v2PL or OMPL.
Click here for the viability rankings!
Formatting:
Here is the formatting that we expect all analysis writers to be able to use as it is enforced that all OM C&C sections are to use this!
[SET]
name:
move 1:
move 2:
move 3:
move 4:
item:
ability:
nature:
evs:
[SET COMMENTS]
Paragraph 1:
- role that the Pokemon plays
- coverage moves that affect its role
- EV spread in one sentence or less
Paragraph 2:
- brief example of teammates that benefit from the Pokemon's presence
- brief example of foes that the Pokemon is vulnerable to + teammates to help cover them
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
List some options for the Pokemon user that are plausible but not always recommended due to either being not consistent enough or too outclassed by other Pokemon in the metagame.
Checks and Counters
===================
**Insert Threat Here**: Describe why the Pokemon is a threat.
**Insert Threat Here**: Describe why the Pokemon is a threat.
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[username1, userid1]]
- Quality checked by: [[username1, userid1], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
name:
move 1:
move 2:
move 3:
move 4:
item:
ability:
nature:
evs:
[SET COMMENTS]
Paragraph 1:
- role that the Pokemon plays
- coverage moves that affect its role
- EV spread in one sentence or less
Paragraph 2:
- brief example of teammates that benefit from the Pokemon's presence
- brief example of foes that the Pokemon is vulnerable to + teammates to help cover them
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
List some options for the Pokemon user that are plausible but not always recommended due to either being not consistent enough or too outclassed by other Pokemon in the metagame.
Checks and Counters
===================
**Insert Threat Here**: Describe why the Pokemon is a threat.
**Insert Threat Here**: Describe why the Pokemon is a threat.
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[username1, userid1]]
- Quality checked by: [[username1, userid1], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
If anyone is unsure/has enquiries feel free to personally message me or anyone on the QC team for clarity or more information, have fun writing and enjoy your day!
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Will keep this brief because I'm quite busy. I'll edit some things in later on:
Metagame Survey - Results:
1. On a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy the current metagame? See: do you enjoy playing it?
With 21 responses, this puts the average response at 8.21, meaning that a great majority of players are enjoying the metagame. No score lower than 6 is also good to see.
2. On a scale of 1-10, do you believe there should be changes made to the current metagame?
With 21 responses, this puts the average response at 6.667, meaning that slightly more players than not believe there should be changes made to the metagame. A plurality of players at 10 suggests changes may be on the minds of quite a bit of people.
3. Beliefs on metagame threats - Which statement most accurately describes?
With 21 responses in all of them, it is clear that Tornadus and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike are seen as problematic metagame threats. The margin on Urshifu is staggering; less than 15% of respondents feel that it is balanced.
The State of the Metagame - What we're doing next:
It's clear that there are Pokemon in the metagame that need to be addressed. With OMPL starting in 2 weeks and 2v2 LT ongoing, it doesn't give us a good avenue to run suspect tests. This is why the council has decided that a vote will be hosted on Tornadus and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, which will include council members, alongside this pool of voters from these qualifications:
While Tornadus was previously suspected and ended with Do Not Ban, it’s clear from survey results and general sentiment that a review of that decision may be warranted. I hope that including players outside of the council who have done well in recent tournaments alleviates any course for concern.
Also, the Council has unanimously agreed to quickban Moody from the SS 2v2 Doubles Metagame. Tagging Kris and Marty for implementation.
Mubs out.
Metagame Survey - Results:
1. On a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy the current metagame? See: do you enjoy playing it?
With 21 responses, this puts the average response at 8.21, meaning that a great majority of players are enjoying the metagame. No score lower than 6 is also good to see.
2. On a scale of 1-10, do you believe there should be changes made to the current metagame?
With 21 responses, this puts the average response at 6.667, meaning that slightly more players than not believe there should be changes made to the metagame. A plurality of players at 10 suggests changes may be on the minds of quite a bit of people.
3. Beliefs on metagame threats - Which statement most accurately describes?
With 21 responses in all of them, it is clear that Tornadus and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike are seen as problematic metagame threats. The margin on Urshifu is staggering; less than 15% of respondents feel that it is balanced.
The State of the Metagame - What we're doing next:
It's clear that there are Pokemon in the metagame that need to be addressed. With OMPL starting in 2 weeks and 2v2 LT ongoing, it doesn't give us a good avenue to run suspect tests. This is why the council has decided that a vote will be hosted on Tornadus and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, which will include council members, alongside this pool of voters from these qualifications:
- 2v2 Tiering Council
- 2v2 VR Council
- Top 8 of 2v2 Swiss Playoffs
- Positive record with more than one game in SS 2v2 Doubles in 2v2 Pool League and OM Spotlight League
Also, the Council has unanimously agreed to quickban Moody from the SS 2v2 Doubles Metagame. Tagging Kris and Marty for implementation.
Mubs out.
With 2v2 Doubles Ladder Tournament Cycle I ending, I'd like to announce that both Tornadus and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike have reached the threshold to be banned, and will subsequently be banned from the 2v2 Doubles Metagame. We will look to review these decisions within the upcoming months after the current tournaments ongoing end. VR Council and the like will update resources quickly and accordingly. Thank you to all voters for participating.
Tagging Kris and Marty for implementation.
Tornadus
Ban: 16 - (Mubs, Krytocon, Lancer Fr, Phantomistix, PA, Adam3560, Chris32156, Morgan, Miishimono, STABLE, torterraxx, Blanched, D2TheW, Bag of Trixx, Trade, papiloco) (84.2%)
Do Not Ban: 3 - (Vrji, Helga146, txitas)
Abstain: 2 - (Itchy, IBM)
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Ban: 15 - (Mubs, Lancer Fr, Phantomistix, PA, Adam3560, Chris32156, Mishimono, STABLE, IBM, Blanched, D2TheW, Bag of Trixx, Helga146, London13, papiloco) (88.2%)
Do Not Ban: 2 - (Vrji, Potatochan)
Abstain 4 - (Itchy, Krytocon, torterraxx, Trade)
Ban: 16 - (Mubs, Krytocon, Lancer Fr, Phantomistix, PA, Adam3560, Chris32156, Morgan, Miishimono, STABLE, torterraxx, Blanched, D2TheW, Bag of Trixx, Trade, papiloco) (84.2%)
Do Not Ban: 3 - (Vrji, Helga146, txitas)
Abstain: 2 - (Itchy, IBM)
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Ban: 15 - (Mubs, Lancer Fr, Phantomistix, PA, Adam3560, Chris32156, Mishimono, STABLE, IBM, Blanched, D2TheW, Bag of Trixx, Helga146, London13, papiloco) (88.2%)
Do Not Ban: 2 - (Vrji, Potatochan)
Abstain 4 - (Itchy, Krytocon, torterraxx, Trade)
Tagging Kris and Marty for implementation.