Other Tier National Dex Ubers UU (Spotlight Ladder for May)

Runo

I get imposter syndrome from playing mons!!!
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator
Stole this from the NDUbers OP
National Dex
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:Zekrom::Ferrothorn::Kyogre:Ubers UU:Groudon::Magearna::Arceus-WAter:

Welcome to the very first edition of National Dex Ubers UU! Just as the name suggests, this is to be an Ubers UU-based metagame in a National Dex environment; every Pokemon is available for use alongside their full movepool. Cut items, moves, and mechanics originating from generations 7 and 8 will be made available as well, with the exception of Dynamax. For information regarding any intricacies concerning National Dex mechanics, please consult this thread [Gen 8 version]. National Dex forum rules are in effect; please give them a look-over here.

Clauses & Banlist

Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Sleep Clause Mod, Species Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Items Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Mega Rayquaza Clause
  • Ubers OU:
    • :arceus: Arceus
    • :arceus-dark: Arceus-Dark
    • :arceus-ground: Arceus-Ground
    • :calyrex-ice: Calyrex-Ice
    • :deoxys-attack: Deoxys-Attack
    • :deoxys-speed: Deoxys-Speed
    • :ditto: Ditto
    • :eternatus: Eternatus
    • :giratina-origin: Giratina-Orgin
    • :glimmora: Glimmora
    • :groudon-primal: Groudon-Primal
    • :hatterene:Hatterene
    • :ho-oh: Ho-Oh
    • :kyogre-primal: Kyogre-Primal
    • :marshadow: Marshadow
    • :melmetal: Melmetal
    • :mewtwo-mega-y: Mewtwo-Mega-Y
    • :lunala: Lunala
    • :necrozma-dusk-mane: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
    • :rayquaza: Rayquaza
    • :salamence-mega: Salamence-Mega
    • :necrozma-ultra: Necrozma-Ultra
    • :yveltal: Yveltal
    • :zacian-crowned: Zacian-Crowned
    • :zygarde: Zygarde
    • + Moves/Abilities/Clauses in Ubers OU

  • Ubers UUBL:
    • :arceus-fairy: Arceus-Fairy
    • :arceus-ghost: Arceus-Ghost
    • :chi-yu: Chi-Yu
    • :shaymin-sky: Shaymin-Sky
    • :zacian: Zacian
    • Power Construct
    • Last Respects
    • Ultranecrozium Z
Council
Watchlist:
  • Pokemon: Blaziken-Mega, Deoxys, Flutter Mane, Kyogre, Kyurem-Black, Zekrom
  • Items: Light Clay
  • Moves: None
  • Mechanics: Psychic Terrain
Resources

Viability Rankings
Sample Teams (below temporarily)
Teambuilding Compendium
Speed Tiers
Good Cores

Q&A

Does this have a Discord server?

Yes, join here!

Why is Dynamax not allowed?
Impementing Dynamax doesn't adhere to National Dex's identity.

Can I use Terastal, Mega Evolution, and Z-Moves on the same team?
Yes, however, any one Pokemon has access to one of these mechanics. Furthermore, Mega Evolution and Z-Moves take priority over Terastal. For example, Mewtwo holding Mewtwonite Y cannot Terastallize. Necrozma-DM holding Solgalium Z cannot Terastallize either.
 
Last edited:
Hello, i have the great honor of being the first post :blobuwu:

I have played a fair bit of matches in this meta and i wanna share my opinions on some mons i really like:

:sm/Scolipede:

Scolipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Endeavor
- Toxic

This is the equivalent of glimmora in ndubers for me.Great lead, can chunk down other leads with endeavor and can get hazzards up very efficiently.

:sm/palafin:


Palafin-Hero (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Jet Punch
- Ice Punch
- Wave Crash

Palafin+kyogre is a great combo, they are able to hit teams very hard from both attacking sides while also having the rain act like a sort of steroid for Palafin.

:sm/kyurem-black:

Kyurem-Black @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Teravolt
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Spear
- Fusion Bolt
- Scale Shot

I honestly think this mon is gonna get banned in the near future, as its pretty insane.All u need is a dd, which has never been this easier as u can just tera electric on mons that usually threathen u like flutter, get those boosts up and clean the opp's team.Speaking of....

:sm/flutter-mane:
Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire
- Power Gem

Great mon.It sometimes feels like Xerneas Jr.U can use in conjuction with :Groudon: to make it an insane all out attacker.

:sm/arceus-steel:

Arceus-Steel @ Steelium Z
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Iron Head
- Recover
- Taunt

Boy is this thing a menace.+1 z iron head either kills or damages something like crazy,i like the fact that at the end of the day its still an arceus,so u never know what its gonna do when it first comes in.

:sm/arceus-ice:

Arceus-Ice @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind (ignore the evs on this one)
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Unlike ndubers, here u dont have the primals, so u can freely switch the weather as u like, hence why i love using this thing wtih chilly glowking.Snow helps arceus become really hard to take down and lets it set up calm minds on a lot of mons.

Overall, i think this metagame is great, i love playing it and look forward to seeing what the other mons i haven't tested yet can do!
 
Compiled usage stats for round 1 of the kickoff tour.
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon             | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
|      | Arceus-*            |   26 |  54.16% |  50.00% |
| 1    | Groudon             |   22 |  45.83% |  54.55% |
| 2    | Kyogre              |   13 |  27.08% |  76.92% |
| 3    | Grimmsnarl          |   11 |  22.92% |  72.73% |
| 4    | Magearna            |   11 |  22.92% |  63.63% |
| 5    | Zekrom              |   10 |  20.83% |  70.00% |
| 6    | Gholdengo           |    9 |  18.75% |  55.56% |
| 7    | Kingambit           |    9 |  18.75% |  44.44% |
| 8    | Necrozma-Dawn-Wings |    8 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Flutter Mane        |    8 |  16.67% |  75.00% |
| 10   | Landorus            |    8 |  16.67% |  75.00% |
| 11   | Blastoise-Mega      |    7 |  14.58% |  57.14% |
| 12   | Smeargle            |    7 |  14.58% |  71.43% |
| 13   | Chien-Pao           |    7 |  14.58% |  28.57% |
| 14   | Kyurem-Black        |    7 |  14.58% |  57.14% |
| 15   | Kartana             |    6 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Lopunny-Mega        |    5 |  10.42% |  60.00% |
| 17   | Blaziken-Mega       |    5 |  10.42% |  60.00% |
| 18   | Giratina            |    5 |  10.42% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Solgaleo            |    5 |  10.42% |  60.00% |
| 20   | Lugia               |    5 |  10.42% |  20.00% |
| 21   | Arceus-Grass        |    5 |  10.42% |  40.00% |
| 22   | Arceus-Flying       |    4 |   8.33% |  25.00% |
| 23   | Genesect            |    4 |   8.33% |  75.00% |
| 24   | Arceus-Fire         |    4 |   8.33% |  75.00% |
| 25   | Alomomola           |    4 |   8.33% |  25.00% |
| 26   | Deoxys              |    4 |   8.33% |  25.00% |
| 27   | Pheromosa           |    4 |   8.33% |  25.00% |
| 28   | Ribombee            |    3 |   6.25% |  66.67% |
| 29   | Ferrothorn          |    3 |   6.25% |  66.67% |
| 30   | Cyclizar            |    3 |   6.25% |  66.67% |
| 31   | Arceus-Water        |    3 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Chansey             |    3 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Dondozo             |    3 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Naganadel           |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Reshiram            |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 36   | Landorus-Therian    |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 37   | Slowking-Galar      |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Arceus-Steel        |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 39   | Annihilape          |    2 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Steelix-Mega        |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 41   | Toxapex             |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Dracovish           |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Lucario-Mega        |    2 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Scizor-Mega         |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 45   | Kyurem-White        |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 46   | Regieleki           |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 47   | Arceus-Fighting     |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Roaring Moon        |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Tapu Lele           |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 50   | Diancie-Mega        |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Archaludon          |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 52   | Arceus-Psychic      |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 53   | Palkia-Origin       |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 54   | Darmanitan-Galar    |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 55   | Kangaskhan-Mega     |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Clefable            |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 57   | Sableye-Mega        |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 58   | Tyranitar-Mega      |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 59   | Arceus-Dragon       |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Arceus-Electric     |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Metagross-Mega      |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 62   | Mawile-Mega         |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 63   | Palkia              |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Porygon2            |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 65   | Ursaluna            |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Clodsire            |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 67   | Pelipper            |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 68   | Dugtrio             |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 69   | Moltres             |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 70   | Sneasler            |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 71   | Latias-Mega         |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 72   | Arceus-Poison       |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 73   | Palafin             |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 74   | Cresselia           |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 75   | Great Tusk          |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 76   | Walking Wake        |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 77   | Scolipede           |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 78   | Arceus-Ice          |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 79   | Ogerpon-Wellspring  |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 80   | Terapagos           |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 81   | Dragapult           |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Mewtwo              |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
 

Runo

I get imposter syndrome from playing mons!!!
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator
NatDex Ubers UU has banned Flutter Mane, Kyurem-Black, and Light Clay
Tagging dhelmise and Marty to implement
:sv/flutter mane::sv/kyurem-black::sv/grimmsnarl:

we also voted on other mons which you can see below
Slate 3RunoXurkiyeeZrp200Outcome
Flutter ManeBANBANBANBANNED
KyogreDNBDNBDNBNOT BANNED
Blaziken-MegaDNBBANDNBNOT BANNED
ZekromDNBDNBDNBNOT BANNED
Psychic SurgeDNBDNBDNBNOT BANNED
Light ClayBANBANBANBANNED
Kyurem-BlackBANBANDNBBANNED

:Flutter Mane:
Flutter Mane has proven itself to be a warping threat to the metagame ever since it dropped with its stellar Calm Mind set being able to break down most defensive cores easily and general offensive sets with Choice Specs and Life Orb being able to dish out massive damage against supposed checks like bulky Kyogre and Groudon. It's great speed tier which already made it incredibly difficult to revenge kill now could be boosted to absurd levels thanks to Groudon's sun and invalidate most Choice Scarf users', such as Genesect and Darmanitan-Galar, attempts at taking it down. Sun also allowed Flutter Mane to bypass its only "true" check in Magearna with its powerful Mystical Fire. Offensive checks with priority such as Chien-Pao, Mega Lopunny, Mega Metagross, and Mega Lucario were often called upon to deal with Flutter Mane but none of those could switch into it nor could they feasibly punish it switching out making them mediocre revenge killers in general.

:Kyurem-black:
This wasn't initially perceived as an issue but Kyurem-Black has been making waves on the ladder with its absurdly powerful Dragon Dance sets having little to no substantial counterplay both defensively and offensively. Once boosted it could effectively maul the entire tier with Icicle Spear and Fusion Bolt sets having no switch ins and doing crazy damage to even the best physical walls such as Physically Defensive Ferrothorn. In addition to this, it was also a potent abuser of Tera (Tera Electric in particular) to invalidate checks such as Magearna and Mega Metagross and revenge killers such as Flutter Mane (banned now) and Genesect. Essentially the only way to not lose to Kyurem-Black was to make sure it never got the opportunity to setup, but with Tera that becomes a rather herculean task since it can easily invalidate checks that would force it out such as Dialga or Chien-Pao.

:light clay:
For a lot of the setup sweepers in the tier, including but not limited to some of the worst offenders such as Mega Blastoise and Zekrom, we felt that Screens hyper offense was a big reason that they were becoming unbearable in the metagame since they could easy setup under screens and run through entire teams. Especially with the lack of Ditto to punish these sweeping attempts and a general lack of anti-setup capabilities in the tier, it's way too much of an ask to tell people to find the counterplay to broken sweeper #13 and so on if its being heavily enabled by screens. Council is open to unbanning it at a later date but as it stands right now, Screens HO is a very unhealthy playstyle.
 
Ok so despite my awful showing on ND UUbers Kickoff, i've been playing for a decent bit in order to get an opinion in the meta (at least what's mostly relevant on it) and since the discord was starting to make their personal VRs i decided to do one too but in forums so that it's not too dead (and i'm also only gonna focus on A mons and a few other things, if you wanna ask me anything then maybe on Discord)
1715170791535.png

:sv/kyogre:
For anyone who's played this tier for a decent bit probably knows how dominant this whale is, it basically warps the meta around it way more than not just Groudon, who lost it's best partner in Flutter Mane, but even Zekrom. I won't dwell much on it as i think everyone knows what this does, being the biggest wallbreaker in the tier with not just Specs and Scarf Water Spouts (the latter in particular) but also how Tera really enhances the mon, making Water resists obsolete vs Specs while Scarf sets are sometimes capable of beating even things like Zekrom, Arceus-Water or Tera Water Magearna if it manages to keep itself healthy. Calm Mind sets also deserve a good mention as bulky variants eat nearly everything in the tier while offensive has the freedom of freely using other moves with Specs brutal power.


:sv/zekrom: :sv/magearna:
So the thing about these two is that i don't really think they're neither close to Kyogre's level (at least Magearna, Zekrom is debatable) nor i think they're at the same level as the other mons in A+. Zekrom was already considered to be extremely good despite the fact that you not only had Groudon and Flutter Mane roaming around but also the presence of Kyurem-Black who's mostly considered superior in most cases, Zekrom had some qualities over it like being able to more easily beat Magearna and supporting it's team with an offensive DD rocks set but most of the time you wanted Kyurem-Black.

:zekrom:
Now what we have right now fits Zekrom excellently as Kyurem-Black got banned, Flutter Mane got banned, Groudon got a significant drop in usage, Kyogre takes over and now everything revolves around Waters and Grasses which is what Zekrom likes the most as it's easily able to force things out and setup with nothing being able to comfortably take a +1 Dragonium Z, one of the main reasons you run Iron Defense on Ferrothorn and why Arceus-Grass has so many moveslot syndromes as it doesn't wanna lose to either steels or Zekrom. Obviously it's not perfect, despite it's good resistances, it's typing still leaves some significant weaknesses to Ice, Dragon, Fairy and Ground which are notable as most of what it likes to switch into is capable of luring it or not give it a free setup such as CM Arceus forms (mainly Grass, Electric and Flying), Kyogre, Magearna, etc.

:magearna:
On the other hand, Magearna is simply an extremely versatile mon that keeps nearly everything in check. It has an excellent defensive typing, it's a good Spikes setter, it's not passive as Fleur Cannon does good damage even uninvested, it keeps momentum with Volt Switch, it disrupts all of the setup mons with either Encore or Heart Swap, it's a fantastic Tera user defensively (mainly Water) and it's setup variants are filled with options (Iron Defense, Calm Mind, Shift Gear + infinite coverage). It's importance was even bigger back when Kyurem-Black, Flutter Mane and Screens were around as it not only dealt with everything in it but also abused Screens itself to quickly snowball out of control.

Right now it's still dealing with all sorts of threats around, going from most Arceus variants found in BO and HO, to Rain teams with Kyogre and Palafin, to PsySpam with Tapu Lele, M-Alakazam and Sneasler to so much more.


:sv/groudon: :sv/blaziken-mega:
These two were more or less hurt due to both the Flutter Mane ban and the Light Clay ban but they still remain as really good options in the meta (with M-Blaziken still being banworthy for some people).

:groudon:
Compared to Kyogre, Groudon just feels more like an enabler to threats rather than the threat itself, while SD sets are decent they aren't as much of a game breaker as the Dragon Dancers or even CM Ogre due to moveslot syndromes as well as the typing not being that favorable right now (since you'll just get drowned by Kyogre) and the lack of investment doesn't allow it to matchup well into most Arceus forms. On the other hand, it's support variants are a lot more appreciated as they're able to take on most of the physical attackers and revenge killers around such as Kingambit, Urshifu, M-Metagross, M-Lucario, M-Mewtwo X and most importantly Zekrom. The sun greatly benefits M-Blaziken and Ogerpon-Hearthflame, massively boosting their damage output to stupid levels alongside setup, but it also enables the other Paradox mons like Raging Bolt, Walking Wake or Roaring Moon.

:blaziken-mega:
This is really straight forward, SD Speed Boost with a stab combination that barely goes resisted (only having Giratina, Toxapex and full hp Terapagos to take boosted attacks). However this mon also suffers from just not having the bulk or resistances to setup a Swords Dance which is more apparent when Light Clay got banned and made the issue even worse but even boosted it really disliked how common Kyogre + Palafin is.


:sv/kingambit: :sv/metagross-mega: :sv/arceus-flying:(Flying) :sv/ferrothorn: :sv/urshifu:
This section is gonna be long and also starts to be the point of bias.

:kingambit:
I really love Kingambit in this tier, it's just pulling the same tricks as it's done in ND OU and still excels even on a meta like this, the reason i don't put it on A+ is mainly due to being really slow on a meta where Kyogre rain is dominant, PsySpam squads with Sneasler being a pain for it and it's struggle vs bulky Arceus forms. Other than that it's one of the best revenge killers around, mainly matching up well into most setup threats as it's the main reason Dawn-Wings even has Tera Fighting, being bulky enough to take most hits from things like CM Arceus-Flying, Zekrom, M-Metagross and completely dominating Magearna.

:metagross-mega:
I'll be honest i'm not a fan of this thing, it's certainly powerful and has a lot of options in it's disposal but it really wants all of them and it's speed is kind of middling. I don't have much to say on this as i still need to test it out, i've seen it's good trades but the moveslot syndromes and poor matchup into weather makes me wanna drop this a lot (i really don't think this is A worthy at all).

:arceus-flying:
Now this is the complete opposite, Arceus-Flying is probably the best CM user out of all the Arceus forms around as the combination of Flying Judgement and Earth Power goes entirely unresisted outside of specifc cases like Balloon Gholdengo. It brings Hyper Offense a setup threat that's not only offensively great but also gives them a valuable defensive backbone from how bulky it is and it's excellent defensive trades in order to check M-Lucario, Groudon, Lando-I, Urshifu, Pheromosa, Sneasler, M-Mewtwo X, M-Metagross and so much more. Support sets struggle with being rocks weak but the resists are great, it still brings all the utility in the world (Taunt, Defog, Refresh, Wisp, Toxic, etc) while having good synergy with most steels.

:ferrothorn:
Filling a similar role to Magearna, the main differences are it's access to Leech Seed, Knock Off and Toxic while being a Water resist that doesn't completely lose to Dragons. It still hates the amount of Fighters in the tier as, unlike Magearna, it's weak to them and the presence of Tera not making it the best Kyogre check around for the entire game but it's still a great pick overall.

:urshifu:
I pretty much just used Scarf on this, it's a good revenge killer as it's faster than both base 90s and 95s while not lacking in the power department (compared to Pheromosa). I'm not really certain on other sets but it's basically a fast Kingambit in terms of dealing with Offense that also appreciates the bans.

Honorable Mentions:

:zamazenta-crowned: This mon has good potential i just need to find a good build for it

:mewtwo: :mewtwo-mega-x:So base is just completely outclassed by M-Zam while X is kind of a weird one, i need to experiment more with it

:blastoise-mega: I'm a M-Blastoise hater, it's just really reliant on Terrain to get a safe setup and even then it doesn't really have too many chances to do so

:blissey: :toxapex: :lugia: :sableye-mega: (and a few more): I think stall has potential, mainly with Pex's TSpikes but i don't think either Lugia or M-Sableye are worth having (especially m-sab that thing does nothing)


So was this too long and completely filled with stuff nearly anyone knows? Yes and probably, i started to rant too much but i wanted to keep some activity around here, the meta is honestly fun despite having a few glaring issues (Zekrom, possibly Kyogre, PsySpam and apparently Moody but i don't agree with that one). See yall in probably my next post of ND RU's recent VR update!
 

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