Metagame SS Monotype Metagame Discussion [Crown Tundra]

Fraolain

PERFECTION SPORTS
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Water has access to Misty Terrain and you only have approximately 27.1% chance of getting frozen by 3 Freeze Dries in a row, which is somehow less than Scald burns. Also, if Freeze is the thing that's broken, shouldn't Freeze be looked at?
xd...how are you supposed to keep the terrain up when kyurem is here to pressure... That sounds possible on paper but that'll only ever work if your opponent is very bad, unless you thought dragon only had 1 mon to deal any kind of damage to water.

Why should we look into freezing exactly ?
There is only 1 problematic mon abusing freezes atm, it makes no sense to make a complex ban instead of just banning it.

Now I don't agree with slowking only taking 3 freeze dry (when switching into kyurem), it definitly have to take more, but even 27.1% is a large number, if you think that having 27.1% chance to lose 1 mon is ok, then we should just unban 0hko moves since it's "only scald burns chance".

Toxapex and Glowking have Scald, so uh yea pretty much the type that has the least issue to freeze if
Yes, I hope you realise that the main reason glowking even play scald is to thaw himself when facing kyurem, this move is very situational and if it wasn't for kyurem you would almost always prefer eq/focus blast, beam, sludge, fsight etc.

tell you Freeze is the issue :D Though, PP Stalling Freeze Dry (Double STAB sets) will still unlikely (~40.95% ) roll a freeze (Thats approximately 5 turns of BP->BP->Roost->BP->BP I think?)
Again, 41% is not unlikely at all ! Unban bright powder rn !

Gastrodon, Hippowdon, Kyurem cannot cancer vs any other mon in Ground, meaning it should be checked offensively
ground kyurem.jpg
 
Yes, I hope you realise that the main reason glowking even play scald is to thaw himself when facing kyurem, this move is very situational and if it wasn't for kyurem you would almost always prefer eq/focus blast, beam, sludge, fsight etc.
Keep in mind. Glowking used to run earthquake to check heatran. So the decision poison users face was: should I run eq and destroy tran but lose to kyu or should I run scald to barely survive vs kyu and partially lose to tran. If the glowiking users right now use scald a lot more than eq, this means that kyu has surpassed the bs that is spdef tran, an extremely broken pokemon.
 

Aqua Jet

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I DONT CARE ABOUT KYUREM OR GOLTRES RIGHT NOW. CAN WE PLEASE BAN ARCEUS AND SKYMIN ON BDSP LADDER? THEY ARE BOTH ALLOWED.
Let’s be honest, who here plays BDSP Monotype anymore LOL. If you do play it, please list 5 reasons you do and I will make a post supporting the Arceus and Skymin ban(which should’ve happened years ago).
There is a BDSP Monotype thread here. I suggest you voice your complaints there after reading the rules, which can be found here.
 

roxie

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I've been healed of my Zapdos-Syndrome. I do not think either Kyurem or Galarian Moltres are broken.

Probability in Tiering

I want to address people adding the potential freeze and flinch from Kyurem and Galarian Moltres respectively as part of a reason to take ban action. It's part of the tiering policy rule #4 that we accept that probability management is part of the game we play. Are we going to ban Choice Band Mamoswine because it flinched your Ice neutrality, Celesteela in Monotype Ribbon Finals? I believe taking action on uncompetitive factors like Acupressure, Quick Claw, and evasion over secondary effects that many Pokemon have is a much wiser choice.

Galarian Moltres

Galarian Moltres runs a few sets in Monotype like Double Dance, ChestoResto + Nasty Plot, Substitute + Nasty Plot, Stallbreaker (Taunt), and even RestTalk. Looking over all the types, Galarian Moltres has multiple checks. There are some Pokemon that Galarian Moltres can get some free switch-ins to like Slowbro, Latias (Maybe stop using Stored Power Latias on Psychic and you can win against a Dark-type lol), and Ferrothorn but overall I don't think this Pokemon is causing the metagame to run unviables like Assault Vest Mawile to check its STABs.

Dark: Tyranitar / Weavile / Grimmsnarl / Bisharp
Dragon: Kyurem / Hydreigon (Fiery Wrath exclusive sets) / Choice Scarf Dragapult
Fairy / Electric / Ice: Shouldn't have issues.
Fire: Incineroar / Cinderace in Sun / Getting +2 Spa +2 Spe is hard overall considering how offensive/direct Fire is
Ghost: Mimikyu / Hyper Beam Spectrier / (Difficult MU in general)
Grass: Cradily / Whimsicott + Virizion + Bulu (Fiery Wrath exclusive)
Ground: Roar Hippowdon & Clear Smog Gastrodon makes it have low setup opportunities + Offensive Pokemon
Normal: Chansey / Snorlax
Poison: Nihilego (Nihilego + Core alone beats Ice, Flying, Fire, and Bug pretty well), Galarian Weezing+WW Drapion (Fiery Wrath exclusive) / Galarian Slowking to an extent
Psychic: Hatterne / Tapu Lele / Alakazam / Galarian Slowking to an extent
Steel: Heatran / AV Melmetal / Bisharp / Celesteela
Water: Tapu Fini / Swift Swim Water / Urshifu+Crawdaunt (Fiery Wrath exclusive) / Phaze Swampert

Kyurem

Overall, I believe Kyurem is on two weird types; Dragon having little-to-no defensive core and Ice relying on Cloyster for momentum and less commonly, Piloswine for a defensive core. I have to admit that Water and Ground don't have a switch-in to a Choice Specs Kyurem every single turn, however, I believe that running Choice Specs has drawbacks and due to the team structures, Kyurem is on, makes it more manageable than it seems.

"Kyurem vs Water"

I do believe that types like Water and Ground have ways of beating the Ice matchup offensively. Water can run offensive options like Kingdra, Cloyster, and Urshifu+Tapu Fini for Dragon and Cloyster, Urshifu-R, and Volcanion for Ice. By running Choice Specs Kyurem on Ice you're giving up both HDB and Chople Berry as options making you more prone to both entry hazards and Urshifu-R, respectively. Personally, I've tried Choice Specs Kyurem and had to use Froslass as a soft check just to not be CC spammed but I was pretty much forced out by Urshifu-R multiple turns. Slowking on the other hand can always be switched into the Substitute Kyurem and pressure both Ice and Dragon with Urshifu-S's Close Combat + Future Sight. Walrein has been tested for Kyurem but I only see that as a decent option for the Dragon matchup. The Roar + Rest/Protect set doesn't seem to do much if you're phazing threats like Arctozolt and SD Weavile. Like if you phaze in an Arctozolt with Hail up, do you sack your Walrein so it doesn't Substitute, or do you "switch out" on a potential Substitute and save it for "checking" Kyurem later. Choice Specs Draco Meteor hits Walrein pretty hard as well.

"Kyurem vs Ground"

Nothing switches into Choice Specs Kyurem unless you're running Assault Vest Mamoswine to not have one of your Pokemon completely sacked.

Mamoswine is a soft check to SubRoost Kyurem thanks to Thick Fat and honestly, Kyurem isn't getting Substitute up very freely unless it's in front of a Gastrodon. Ground can put up a great matchup against Dragon with Excadrill, Mamoswine, and Landorus-T. Dragon lacks a defensive core as mentioned before and from a Sand Rush POV, Choice Band Excadrill makes major progress and Mamoswine cleans with Ice Shard. Sandless is the same way with Mamoswine + really any Choice Scarfer (Landorus-T/Excadrill/Garchomp). 252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Excadrill: 304-358 (84.2 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Excadrill eats a Choice Specs Earth Power from a Kyurem! Iron Head does enough damage where Stealth Rocks KOes Kyurem aswell. (Keep note that Dragon also has very poor hazard control).

Ground vs Ice is quite the matchup, and it's like Flying vs Ice honestly. It's a hard matchup overall and Kyurem is not the main threat. You have a Weavile that Knocks Off your neutrality, Arctozolt, Kyurem, Alolan Ninetales, and more.

"Kyurem vs Flying"

Arctozolt + Kyurem + Weavile + Galarian Darmanitan. Is this really a Kyurem-based issue or is this a general hard matchup in Monotype. If you aren't using Skarmory to absorb Knock Offs + Celesteela to check Kyurem, respectively, that matchup seems hella out the window. Celesteela just gets Knock'd by Weavile, the Ice user goes into Cloyster, Clicks Teleport, then goes into Arctozolt or Weavile again.

Dragon overall hates Celesteela tremendously and if you play Galarian Moltres + Celesteela + Scarf right you can win.

tldr: Flinch/Freeze goes against tiering policy, Galarian Moltres is balanced, Water & Ground can beat Ice & Dragon, Flying vs Ice is a Monotype moment without Skarmory.
 
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i agree w most of the post except a couple of small stuff. You don't need AV melm to get past galar molt, just a regular max hp little bit of spdef is plenty to force it out and do a lot of damage to flying w tox/tect sets or just sub dib/tpunch or whatever other stuff. Also with freeze dry pp available combined with pressure, freeze is a legitimate reason for concern and isn't your basic 10% stuff that tiering policy talks about. I've really thought ice has been a borderline top 5 type all gen, and wouldn't mind kyurem going if it meant some other stuff did as well. However ice is just picking up recently and the monotype meta does take a while to settle and figure out basic adjustments to popular teams so I think it's much too early for any ice related suspect at the moment. (also flying v ice is ok if u have g zap + cele/bulk corv stuff - obv not close to even or anything but winnable but anyway not imp)

I've been meaning to reply to this reply to Kev for a while and kept putting it off but roxiee covered a decent bit of the reply so I'm just gonna touch on some of the smaller stuff.

as an example of how a kyurem-less meta could affect goltres, when u don't have to run glowking on both psychic and poison as to not lose to kyurem (it doesn't mean u win against it though) both types get to run a mon that isn't goltres fodder.
A lotta people have seemed to forget that you can offensively pressure strong pokemon as well, especially one with as many weaknesses as kyurem. Are you really telling me there's no way to build an all round solid team with a solid shot vs kyurem teams without glowking? On psychic? You have lele jirachi victini all sorts of mew sets, the lati twins, hat... you get my point. I'm not even gonna get into the less common stuff but come on lol what. Arguing the freeze stuff is like fine sure but this is so unbelievably wrong. linking games of an ice mon on an ice team freezing a flying mon is not actually helping any case either. ignoring that there are better routes in that game, it just looks like people are grasping at straws. Like I sorta mentioned earlier, I don't love the freeze aspect of it, I think sub dd is still probably worse, I just don't think there's been enough to suspect yet.

^all that stuff was me

council shit - we voted on kyu and no one wants to suspect, molt vote is pretty tight, survey out soon (probably). If it's not annoy dugza.
 

WhiteQueen

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I’ve been playing monotype lately because I find the team building and gambling aspects of it fun. That said, I’m no monotype subject matter expert. But from my experience vs. goltres, it’s only near unbeatable when I’m using a passive ass water or steel or poison or another stall’ish team against a goltres with rest. No, specially defensive Toxapex with haze isn’t an answer, as you’re just a sitting duck waiting to get flinched, critted, and then swept. Good luck trying to stall out goltres’ fiery wraths because the odds are not in your favor.

Kyurem is a natural enemy of water, but at least the water user still has a fighting chance against it. Melmetal, on the other hand, is much worse vs. fairy/ice than Kyurem vs. water. Melmetal just enters the battlefield and nets several kills against those types. Dark vs. ghost is an uphill challenge for the ghost user, etc. Aren’t these situations what y’all call “monotype moments?” Perhaps try using different berries/other items/techs/spreads to help mitigate your team’s weaknesses and give yourself a chance against such threats.
 
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Kev

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Chait already mentioned it, but just to clarify the Monotype council had two votes recently. The votes were on if the pokemon in question should be suspected, and here were the results:

Moltres-Galar: 4 no suspect, 4 suspect
Kyurem: 8 no suspect, 0 suspect

As Chait mentioned, the consensus on Kyurem is unanimous; the council does not see it as a sufficient enough threat to be suspected presently. As for Molters-Galar, the vote was extremely tight. However, it did not meet the two possible thresholds: 50% + 1, or TL tiebreak in the case of an even council. Therefore, there will presently be no suspect for Moltres-Galar. However, this does not mean that it is out of the question. We are releasing the second official SS Monotype survey and will reconsider the Moltres-Galar vote following the results of said survey. It should be noted that a majority in that survey does not guarantee that a suspect will occur. Nonetheless, an overwhelming majority amongst the qualified voters may be sufficient to act as a tiebreaker. Compelling arguments included in the survey would be better than simply voting yes or no.

SS Monotype Official Survey #2 (courtesy of DugZa)
The survey will remain up for 2 weeks or more pending on the amount of results that were gathered. It is open to all members of the community to contribute, and we strongly encourage everyone to fill it and answer seriously. It should however be noted that the responses of those that match the categories listed in the survey will have more weight. If you were in any of the most recent Monotype team tournaments, please do share the survey with those you teamed with and who qualify to answer.

Fill in this: survey

As per usual, it should be noted that majority in the survey does not mean action will be taken. It is simply a medium to gather opinions and not a vote. Also, I remind everyone to please be as thorough, serious and honest with their responses as possible.

Besides this, please do fill in the survey and if you have any questions feel free to PM me, DugZa or another member of council depending on the nature of the question. A thank you again to Dugza for setting up the survey for us!
 
Just a couple of quick notes going through some of the early survey responses -

If people want to suspect something like Melmetal, reasons like 'ice and fairy are so bad vs it and the matchup is almost impossible' are absolutely just gonna be ignored. Those matchups are gonna be brutal regardless if that slot is melmetal or cb scizor or bisharp or if steel plays with 5 pokemon. Banning one pokemon because it makes a mu super difficult, when it is the only type it can be on with an already very advantageous matchup (steel vs fairy for example) would 1) be the dumbest argument ever because it can be used for literally dozens and dozens of mons (oh no rillaboom is so hard for ground and water please ban), and 2) that matchup would be difficult regardless. I can speak for everyone on the council when I say no one is taking 'suspect melmetal cause ice fairy cant do anything vs it' seriously. Personally, I'd disregard your whole response considering the lack of tiering knowledge it shows but that's just me. come on guys lol

Also we are not suspecting shit for a 'meta shakeup.' We never have and we never will and it totally goes against tiering policy. it's been said hundreds of times i know yall know this by now stop putting it in your responses please

thank you every1 for your responses, hoping to see a lot more
 

WhiteQueen

the queen bee
is a Tiering Contributorwon the 11th Official Smogon Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
First of all, I’m neither for nor against banning Goltres. I have also never played NatDex Monotype (bar some Monothreat games in the Swiss tournament), so I don’t have the experience to make an informed opinion on it either.

That being said, how come Goltres is banned in NatDex, but not here? Wouldn’t NatDex have more answers (Mega-Altaria and -Diancie immediately come to mind) to Goltres due to the availability of many more Pokémon, theoretically speaking?
 

mushamu

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First of all, I’m neither for nor against banning Goltres. I have also never played NatDex Monotype (bar some Monothreat games in the Swiss tournament), so I don’t have the experience to make an informed opinion on it either.

That being said, how come Goltres is banned in NatDex, but not here? Wouldn’t NatDex have more answers (Mega-Altaria and -Diancie immediately come to mind) to Goltres due to the availability of many more Pokémon, theoretically speaking?
Z-moves make it more obviously broken, and it broke down every defensive core in existence with Mega Charizard-Y. Here's two posts on it. Galarian Moltres invalidates many types easily there when it can click Nasty Plot into Z-move, easily forcing a 6v5 in many scenarios. The counterplay is not even that much greater compared to SS especially when you factor in Z-moves.
 

Floss

never forgotten
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Monotype Leader
The results of the survey that started on April 9th and was concluded recently can be found below.



- Qualified Voters

- Qualified Voters



Key statistics -
  • 63.4% of all respondents consider the metagame relatively enjoyable. (7-10 on a scale of 1-10)
  • 62.9% of all respondents consider the metagame relatively competitive. (7-10 on a scale of 1-10)
  • 54.9% of all respondents consider Moltres-Galar as broken. (4-5 on a scale of 1-5)
  • 65.9% of qualified respondents consider Moltres-Galar as broken. (4-5 on a scale of 1-5)
  • 32.3% of all respondents consider Kyurem as broken. (4-5 on a scale of 1-5)
  • 34.1% of qualified respondents consider Kyurem as broken. (4-5 on a scale of 1-5)
  • 18.3% of all respondents consider Aegislash as broken. (4-5 on a scale of 1-5)
  • 19.3% of all respondents consider Tapu Lele as broken. (4-5 on a scale of 1-5)
  • 24.7% of all respondents consider Icy Rock as broken. (4-5 on a scale of 1-5)
Regarding potential action on Moltres-Galar, the survey results were not conclusive enough for immediate action to be taken in the build-up to MPL. However, the case for a suspect will be considered after MPL concludes. Thanks to everyone who responded for your insight.
 

mushamu

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Hello, the viability of types being fluid in Monotype is always really interesting so I wanted to open up discussion on it. I made a tier list on how the metagame looks to me and why I think certain types good and bad.

This is my ranking and based entirely on my personal opinion:

Reasoning:

Flying is without a doubt the best type in the tier. Balance Flying is by far the most consistent playstyle because of how well it’s able to cover bases, while other play styles such as bulky offense and hyper offense are viable as well. Both Tornadus-T and Galarian Moltres are incredible breakers, and the type has a solid defensive core otherwise. As far as matchups go, Flying’s main bad matchup is Ice, but some good piloting with Galarian Zapdos and Celesteela can still take the game. Noivern is also criminally underrated and deserves more usage because of how well its able to virtually beat every threat Flying dislikes dealing with outside of Cloyster. Overall the most consistent type and the best bring if you wish to cover as many bases as possible.
Electric is still a great type despite it falling off a bit after the Choice Specs Zapdos hype died down. Between Tapu Koko, Alolan Raichu, Zeraora, and Zapdos, Electric is one of the most threatening offensive types in the tier that is able to threaten essentially any type well. Defensive Zapdos has merit as well and synergizes well with Rotom-W to let it run Pain Split. The bad matchups it has are mainly confined to certain Pokémon like Kyurem and Landorus-T, although those Pokémon can be overcome with good playing, and the type itself is full of great firepower otherwise. Toxtricity is also underrated as a Pokémon that can deal with both Tapu Koko and Aegislash and can provide good raw power with Boomburst.

Ground is a type I’m a personal favorite of in all Monotype generations. It has barely changed within 12 years and still works great. Between Mamoswine, Garchomp, Landorus-T, Excadrill, Gastrodon, you can cover a majority of the metagame. Sand Ground is also nice now that Ice is catching on to reset weather, and Hippowdon’s Sand Stream can easily turn the tide against it. Even bad matchups on paper like Water and Ice can be extremely doable in practice thanks to strong Pokémon like Garchomp against Water as well as Mamoswine against Ice. Grass is mostly unwinnable but is extremely rare.

Water is really similar to Ground as they share multiple characteristics. They both struggle against Kyurem and Grass, and they can both utilize weather in their own ways. They’re also both really consistent and played similarly. I do think Kyurem gives Water a harder time as a result of its passivity granted a balance team is being ran and Water teams generally have to bend their back to not lose to it. However, aside from the glaring Kyurem weakness, Water is also extremely flexible in its builds, having around 30 viable Pokemon you can utilize on it. Overall a nice type that is fun to build and decently consistent.

Steel struggles with a lot of threats in the metagame and requires heavy outplaying to get past them. Nidoking, Galarian Moltres, Landorus-T, Hydreigon, Volcanion even Kyurem, the list goes on and on. I was originally reluctant to put it at A, but it is a strong type otherwise, and much like the rest of the A ranked types it’s great when placed into the hands of players that have a high skill ceiling. Spikes stack will always be great and Steel abuses it well thanks to its great defensive synergy.

Psychic, much like Steel, is a good type, but struggles with a lot of threats in the tier. Galarian Moltres, Aegislash, Melmetal, and Spectrier are all Pokémon to watch out for, and I think the type is huge on weakness berries to patch up holes. Kasib Berry for Aegislash, Dragapult and Spectrier and Colbur Berry for Bisharp and Weavile are good examples. Otherwise, it’s a good type and Galarian Slowking + Slowbro can be extremely hard to break.

Dark can run both offense and balance to a consistent degree. Galarian Moltres under screens is a huge threat for a majority of types, and the type is overall extremely consistent. I do feel like people need to realize how essential Sableye is to balance however, as it prevents Pokemon like Kommo-O, Urshifu-R, Corviknight, and Skarmory from steamrolling you.
Poison is a good type but has fallen off due to recent metagame trends. Triple Regenerator is great on paper, but it struggles with a lot thanks to its defined team structure. Recent metagame trends like Chesto Resto Galarian Moltres, Substitute Bulk Up Landorus-T, as well as Arctozolt Ice all give it a hard time and makes the original Amoonguss + Toxapex + Galarian Slowking core not as great as it once was. A lot of the times when I load Poison I definitely feel like I get put into sticky situations more often than the types at A.

Fire is a powerful offensive type with an extremely high skill ceiling. It can cover basically any matchup with the right team, and Cinderace is an absurdly good Pokemon. The only thing that makes me put it at B is the skill caliber that is needed to pilot it. A lot of matchups require the Fire user to get many turns in a row right to win, and if the player does not have the skill ceiling to do it, then it can be hard to be consistent with. Overall a good offensive type that is fast paced and high risk but high reward.

Ice and Fairy are both good offensive types that are a lot more matchup oriented than the other types. They can both get good matchups, but risk getting completely awful ones. They are both good against Flying, Water, and Dragon, but can easily lose if loaded against Steel, Fire or team structures that can stand up to breaker spam. Both these types are extremely reliant on powering through with breakers which makes them riskier to use in a tournament setting compared to other, more reliable types.

Ghost is nice, but has a glaring weakness in hazards. It does not have a Magic Guard Pokémon to beat Spikes stack and is instead forced to opt for Dhelmise as removal. This can lead to some linear team structures along with lack of defensive synergy. However, spamming Ghost STAB always goes hard, especially with the addition of Spectrier, so it’s a decent offensive type in general.
Dragon is just full of firepower. It’s great offensively, but bad defensively. It can easily be shattered by many common offensive threats, especially those with super effective coverage, which make it not that consistent in the current metagame. However, anything can happen when you have jesus Kyurem on your side.

Normal’s main niche is Ditto, which gives you an upper hand against offense, as well as other Pokémon like Bewear and Heliolisk to tackle other matchups like Dark and Water. However, it does struggle defensively which makes it inconsistent. I spent 6 hours perfecting a Normal team in MWP 3 only to load into Toxic Spikes and lose. I have not loaded it since and do not plan to load it in the near future…

Grass sucks. It is the definition of flipping a coin, except the coin lands 25% on heads and 75% on tails. It loses to 50%+ of the tier, and auto wins against the rest. It is a downright matchup fish that targets extremely specific types like Water and Ground. However it does have a niche competitively which is why I didn’t put it at D rank.
Fighting, Bug, and Rock are all awful competitively. They all lose to a majority of the metagame due to lack of synergy and do not win against much else. I would not ever bring these three types in a tournament setting.

Thanks for reading, and it would be nice to have more people post their thoughts on the current metagame as well. You can make your own type tier list here: https://tiermaker.com/create/pokemon-types-6600
 
Hello, the viability of types being fluid in Monotype is always really interesting so I wanted to open up discussion on it. I made a tier list on how the metagame looks to me and why I think certain types good and bad.

This is my ranking and based entirely on my personal opinion:

Reasoning:

Flying is without a doubt the best type in the tier. Balance Flying is by far the most consistent playstyle because of how well it’s able to cover bases, while other play styles such as bulky offense and hyper offense are viable as well. Both Tornadus-T and Galarian Moltres are incredible breakers, and the type has a solid defensive core otherwise. As far as matchups go, Flying’s main bad matchup is Ice, but some good piloting with Galarian Zapdos and Celesteela can still take the game. Noivern is also criminally underrated and deserves more usage because of how well its able to virtually beat every threat Flying dislikes dealing with outside of Cloyster. Overall the most consistent type and the best bring if you wish to cover as many bases as possible.
Electric is still a great type despite it falling off a bit after the Choice Specs Zapdos hype died down. Between Tapu Koko, Alolan Raichu, Zeraora, and Zapdos, Electric is one of the most threatening offensive types in the tier that is able to threaten essentially any type well. Defensive Zapdos has merit as well and synergizes well with Rotom-W to let it run Pain Split. The bad matchups it has are mainly confined to certain Pokémon like Kyurem and Landorus-T, although those Pokémon can be overcome with good playing, and the type itself is full of great firepower otherwise. Toxtricity is also underrated as a Pokémon that can deal with both Tapu Koko and Aegislash and can provide good raw power with Boomburst.

Ground is a type I’m a personal favorite of in all Monotype generations. It has barely changed within 12 years and still works great. Between Mamoswine, Garchomp, Landorus-T, Excadrill, Gastrodon, you can cover a majority of the metagame. Sand Ground is also nice now that Ice is catching on to reset weather, and Hippowdon’s Sand Stream can easily turn the tide against it. Even bad matchups on paper like Water and Ice can be extremely doable in practice thanks to strong Pokémon like Garchomp against Water as well as Mamoswine against Ice. Grass is mostly unwinnable but is extremely rare.

Water is really similar to Ground as they share multiple characteristics. They both struggle against Kyurem and Grass, and they can both utilize weather in their own ways. They’re also both really consistent and played similarly. I do think Kyurem gives Water a harder time as a result of its passivity granted a balance team is being ran and Water teams generally have to bend their back to not lose to it. However, aside from the glaring Kyurem weakness, Water is also extremely flexible in its builds, having around 30 viable Pokemon you can utilize on it. Overall a nice type that is fun to build and decently consistent.

Steel struggles with a lot of threats in the metagame and requires heavy outplaying to get past them. Nidoking, Galarian Moltres, Landorus-T, Hydreigon, Volcanion even Kyurem, the list goes on and on. I was originally reluctant to put it at A, but it is a strong type otherwise, and much like the rest of the A ranked types it’s great when placed into the hands of players that have a high skill ceiling. Spikes stack will always be great and Steel abuses it well thanks to its great defensive synergy.

Psychic, much like Steel, is a good type, but struggles with a lot of threats in the tier. Galarian Moltres, Aegislash, Melmetal, and Spectrier are all Pokémon to watch out for, and I think the type is huge on weakness berries to patch up holes. Kasib Berry for Aegislash, Dragapult and Spectrier and Colbur Berry for Bisharp and Weavile are good examples. Otherwise, it’s a good type and Galarian Slowking + Slowbro can be extremely hard to break.

Dark can run both offense and balance to a consistent degree. Galarian Moltres under screens is a huge threat for a majority of types, and the type is overall extremely consistent. I do feel like people need to realize how essential Sableye is to balance however, as it prevents Pokemon like Kommo-O, Urshifu-R, Corviknight, and Skarmory from steamrolling you.
Poison is a good type but has fallen off due to recent metagame trends. Triple Regenerator is great on paper, but it struggles with a lot thanks to its defined team structure. Recent metagame trends like Chesto Resto Galarian Moltres, Substitute Bulk Up Landorus-T, as well as Arctozolt Ice all give it a hard time and makes the original Amoonguss + Toxapex + Galarian Slowking core not as great as it once was. A lot of the times when I load Poison I definitely feel like I get put into sticky situations more often than the types at A.

Fire is a powerful offensive type with an extremely high skill ceiling. It can cover basically any matchup with the right team, and Cinderace is an absurdly good Pokemon. The only thing that makes me put it at B is the skill caliber that is needed to pilot it. A lot of matchups require the Fire user to get many turns in a row right to win, and if the player does not have the skill ceiling to do it, then it can be hard to be consistent with. Overall a good offensive type that is fast paced and high risk but high reward.

Ice and Fairy are both good offensive types that are a lot more matchup oriented than the other types. They can both get good matchups, but risk getting completely awful ones. They are both good against Flying, Water, and Dragon, but can easily lose if loaded against Steel, Fire or team structures that can stand up to breaker spam. Both these types are extremely reliant on powering through with breakers which makes them riskier to use in a tournament setting compared to other, more reliable types.

Ghost is nice, but has a glaring weakness in hazards. It does not have a Magic Guard Pokémon to beat Spikes stack and is instead forced to opt for Dhelmise as removal. This can lead to some linear team structures along with lack of defensive synergy. However, spamming Ghost STAB always goes hard, especially with the addition of Spectrier, so it’s a decent offensive type in general.
Dragon is just full of firepower. It’s great offensively, but bad defensively. It can easily be shattered by many common offensive threats, especially those with super effective coverage, which make it not that consistent in the current metagame. However, anything can happen when you have jesus Kyurem on your side.

Normal’s main niche is Ditto, which gives you an upper hand against offense, as well as other Pokémon like Bewear and Heliolisk to tackle other matchups like Dark and Water. However, it does struggle defensively which makes it inconsistent. I spent 6 hours perfecting a Normal team in MWP 3 only to load into Toxic Spikes and lose. I have not loaded it since and do not plan to load it in the near future…

Grass sucks. It is the definition of flipping a coin, except the coin lands 25% on heads and 75% on tails. It loses to 50%+ of the tier, and auto wins against the rest. It is a downright matchup fish that targets extremely specific types like Water and Ground. However it does have a niche competitively which is why I didn’t put it at D rank.
Fighting, Bug, and Rock are all awful competitively. They all lose to a majority of the metagame due to lack of synergy and do not win against much else. I would not ever bring these three types in a tournament setting.

Thanks for reading, and it would be nice to have more people post their thoughts on the current metagame as well. You can make your own type tier list here: https://tiermaker.com/create/pokemon-types-6600
Tbh most of this this is pretty accurate to my thoughts and feelings. I'd probably put mono Fighting in it's own tier below Rock and Bug since it really doesn't have much going for it. Rock and Bug are still pretty bad but you can at least somewhat cover for your weaknesses. Fighting feels like it needs 7-8 pokemon in a team while only being able to fit 6. I'll also note that rock is probably the least bad out of the D tiers. I could just be biased but mono rock's offensive pressure is just a smidge better than bug's imo.
Oh and psychic could maybe be in high B tier. It's a hard maybe tho since I never actually used mono psychic before. I just never really struggled against mono psychic teams as much as I have with the other A tiers.
 

mushamu

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Tbh most of this this is pretty accurate to my thoughts and feelings. I'd probably put mono Fighting in it's own tier below Rock and Bug since it really doesn't have much going for it. Rock and Bug are still pretty bad but you can at least somewhat cover for your weaknesses. Fighting feels like it needs 7-8 pokemon in a team while only being able to fit 6. I'll also note that rock is probably the least bad out of the D tiers. I could just be biased but mono rock's offensive pressure is just a smidge better than bug's imo.
Oh and psychic could maybe be in high B tier. It's a hard maybe tho since I never actually used mono psychic before. I just never really struggled against mono psychic teams as much as I have with the other A tiers.
Imo Psychic is good, I just feel like people should utilize weakness berries more on the type. It doesn’t have natural switchins to Ghost and Dark unless you count Indeedee (underrated imo) so most of the time you’re using Kasib/Colbur on the type to compensate. I never really find myself putting boots or Rocky Helmet on Slowbro anymore for example because I feel like it’s one of the best weakness berry users on the type.
 

XSTATIC COLD

Banned deucer.
Imo Psychic is good, I just feel like people should utilize weakness berries more on the type. It doesn’t have natural switchins to Ghost and Dark unless you count Indeedee (underrated imo) so most of the time you’re using Kasib/Colbur on the type to compensate. I never really find myself putting boots or Rocky Helmet on Slowbro anymore for example because I feel like it’s one of the best weakness berry users on the type.
I disagree. Even using kasib on a mon isnt an issue vs ghost team. If you face specs spectrier + blace + aegislash it s free lose.
Because even if you tank a spectrier hit with kasib, you are not guaranted to kill back, and even if you kill it, he just has to use blacephalon (or conversely) and finish your team
I tested a kasib berry trick room hatterene, but he just has to use aegislash to tempo trick room and you are done.

Thus, against a good ghost team, you cant win with psychic, unless using indeedee, which is unviable vs other types.(so not worth)
That s also a reason why i think aegislash is over broken. (steel+ ghost)
 

Dead by Daylight

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I disagree. Even using kasib on a mon isnt an issue vs ghost team. If you face specs spectrier + blace + aegislash it s free lose.
Because even if you tank a spectrier hit with kasib, you are not guaranted to kill back, and even if you kill it, he just has to use blacephalon (or conversely) and finish your team
I tested a kasib berry trick room hatterene, but he just has to use aegislash to tempo trick room and you are done.

Thus, against a good ghost team, you cant win with psychic, unless using indeedee, which is unviable vs other types.(so not worth)
That s also a reason why i think aegislash is over broken. (steel+ ghost)
Yeah, Ghost is a difficult MU. However, I haven't seen many Spectriers anymore. Indeedee is not that unviable: its Expanding Force hits really hard and it has decent coverage. Kasib Berry is helpful for possible Ghost coverage more than the Ghost MU (same with Colbur). Aegislash is not broken: it is quite slow and its frail defenses in Blade form let it be revenge killed. The King's Shield nerf also helped neutralize it.
 
My viability rank looks something like this :

my-image.png

Mush makes me sick by not putting steel at S, its steel an amazing type. It just gets bullied at times due to players using anti-meta types, and sets to counter it. Even then it still manages to win. I also don't think ground is A, I think it should be in a High b slot, but unfortunately there was only 5 grades. I also disagree with the fire typing placement. C is a beautiful place for it :D.

Other than those two, I think I pretty much agree with the ranks that mushy mush put.
 
Such a shame to see Bug doing so badly, it used to be decent in USUM. Losing Mega Scizor and Pinsir really hurt it. On the other hand it's nice to see Ice is doing quite well atm, I remember how bad it used to be in USUM (arguably the worst type).
 

Azick

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Hey, wanted to throw in my thoughts, relatively similar to Mushamu so I won't go into depth except for specific changes. Split mine up a bit more to better give my own reflection.
my-image (1).png

S
Flying - Agree with everything mushamu said, most verstaile type other than perhaps water and can pretty much beat anything including ice with double steel move Cele and Zap Galar. Access to a versatile attacker and an electric immunity in Thundy T and of course Broken Bird destroying teams along with a solid fire switchin with Dragonite and Landorus-t always one of the best competetive mons. Excellent synergy among the type and with the introduction of HDB in SS it has certainly become the best type in my eyes

A+
Ground - One of the best offensively oriented types in my eyes and whether running sandless or not both work extremely well and have access to a solid water immunities. The main thing pushing it over the edge to me is the utility of sub landy gravity set-up setup which has a myriad of uses as well as the popularity of AV Mamo allowing a decent check to psys and Kyurems.
Water - As aforementioned probably the most verstaile type in the game with a huge variety of options in the teambuilder beyond just rain vs non rain water. Urfishu has certainly improved the type exponentially and the vast variety of building options such as stall, rain water, balance, and even more offensively oriented water all work well. Has access to excellent mons such as the king toxapex, crawdunt, rotom, fini, ect.
Steel - Great type with an excellent selection of mons lot of threats as mentioned but can be played ard if done right and stuff like scarf heatran can help quite a bit especially with the flying matchup.
Psychic - One of the more technical types to play but it has an excellent variety of mons with varying sets such as sub tini, hatterne coveres alot and lele is excellent speed control along with good bulk in bro and solid rockers in rachi/zong. Tons of variability and can beat most top tier types if played well.

Ice - An excellent anti-meta type that breezes through many of the top types specifically due to kyurem and with the rise of arctozolt I think it deserves a spot in A tier, good momentum with darmanitan and Ninetails excellent for screen setting and the dark matchup.
Electric - Probably the best offensively oriented type in the metagame with access to constant volt switching around and excellent mons to take advantage of this such as relegeki, zapdos, or zerora. A very fast and strong hitting type that does well against most high tier types as well.

B+
Fire - Fire is also a solid anti meta type that has a good variety of mons but lacks any strong defensive core, it's all about offensive pressure. Marowak alola is underrated as hell in my opinion as it is an excellent wallbreaker that covers electric teams and with mons like cinderace, sun setting capabilities, and good speed control its a very solid type.
Fairy - Fairy was definitely one of the top types especially with the attri fairy team becoming so popularized but as time has went on a think the type has become slightly less viable especially with the rise of steel. Still it has an excellent selection and with screen setting and the tapus you hit nearly everything. Certainly harder to play than it used to though.
Dark - Don't play much dark so don't have a ton to say but its a solid type mons like weavile and zarude along with screens setting make for a good hyper offensive playstyle and balance with sab works solid as well.
Ghost - Underrated type in my opinion has access to an excellent variety of Pokémon such as Spectrier, Froslass/Corsola for hazard setting, and good speed control along with an excellent sweeper in dragapult. A difficult type to learn in my eyes but can be very solid if played right

B
Dragon - Dragon definitely deserves B/B+ in my opinion, Access to kyurem along with kommo o allows it to beat many top tier types and dragalage with t spikes pressures the hell out of teams along with a solid rocker with garchomp. Certainly some variety but dragapult also pushes it over the edge in my opinion. An excellent scarfer that can turn out and provide momentum and fuck up psychic teams if played well. Downfall of fairy lately has also led me enjoy dragon a lot more although ice really is an auto loss but sub dreigon and such fucks up steel and overall I think if played right it can be excellent type.
Poison - Also don't play much poision but it has an excellent core that can be hella difficult for various types to break through, specifically water. Think its falling off a bit as people are learning to play around it a bit more

C
Grass - Hard type to play/build and mostly fishes for matchups as mentioned but I've seen some excellent grass games and rillbaboom itself i just a menace and it has a decent defensive core with cradily/ferro and solid setup sweepers such as zarude/Deceideye.

D
- Agree with everything Maroon all three types are extremely hard to use this meta with the top types pretty much destroying all of them but with that said but my one change would be Normal to D as well. It was an excellent type in ORAS and I think its unfortunate it fell off so hard but I would almost never risk bringing normal to tours personally. Ditto's cool and all and Bewear can put in hella work if played right but overall theres so many strong wallbreakers this generation the defensive core just doesn't work as well especially with the prevelance of knock off everywhere, as well as close combat everywhere
 
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Neko

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My personal thoughts on the type rankings. Please bear with some inaccuracies as I'm not exactly a good player...

Flying- A defensive core that's too good with the speed and the breakers to back it up. You have Lando-T/Steel Birb/Mantine/Zapdos for one of the most solid defensive cores, excellent Scarfers (due to the Speed Tier and spammability of moves) in Galarian Zapdos and Thundurus-T, and setup sweepers in Dragonite, Tornadus-T, and Galarian Moltres. Even "hard" matchups like Ice and Electric can be circumvented by using Scarf Galarian Zapdos + Celesteela or Dragonite.
Dark - It has Goltres so it must be broken. Jokes aside, it a large pool of sweepers to choose from to pick what matchup you win (SD Weavile murders Flying and Dragon teams, for instance). It also helps that its most common Choice Scarf user (Zarude) has really good coverage and has a speed slightly higher than what other types have. For Defense, it has the techs it needs to beat the techs other teams use to cheese it such as ID Kommo-o and TR CM Hatterene with Sableye and Heavy Slam Tyranitar, respectively.
Water - Kyurem might be scary but Water is scarier, Slowking, Urshifu-R, and Tapu Fini gives Water teams more than enough breathing room against this behemoth, and those three aren't even just used for Kyurem. Water also has probably the most diverse pool of Pokemon to choose from. Grass matchup is extremely terrible but not impossible because you have the tools such as Volcanion and Golisopod, which are also useful in matchups such as Steel, Fairy, Psychic, and Dark anyway.
These types have the tools to beat the top types and most of the other types, but fall short because they get overwhelmed by certain type(s) due to various circumstances.
Ground - If you want a type where you could just click a certain move all day and not worry much afterward, this type is for you. This type taught me how therapeutic Choice Band Excadrill's Earthquake is. For those that are immune to Earthquake, it calls its friends named Gravity Landorus-T and Mamoswine. The only thing holding it back is that the Ice and Water matchup are pretty bad, lacks proper entry hazard removal (Rapid Spin... on Choice Band Excadrill), and Grass matchup is very :D.

Fairy - Has a plethora of threats for every matchup, including Belly Drum Azumarill, Calm Mind Tapu Fini, Calm Mind Hatterene, Swords Dance Tapu Bulu, and Calm Mind Tapu Koko, to name a few. Choice Scarf Tapu Lele is also possibly the strongest late-game cleaner in monotype. I truly believe that Fairy can beat every type possible, as long as it doesn't run into Melmetal or Spectrier, and even then the Fairy player can resort to using Togekiss or Grimmsnarl to beat these. Its held back by its "what do I now" if the other type prevents you from finding chances to set up.

Psychic - If Fairy has a lot of offensive threats to cover all matchups, Psychic's access to Slowbro and Galarian Slowking gives it a lot of defensive breathing room to cover most matchups. Victini is an excellent Steelbreaker and can force out a lot of Pokemon to safely bring in its friends, Choice Scarf Tapu Lele is also possibly the strongest late-game cleaner in monotype and also provides the much needed terrain to prevent Bisharp from using Sucker Punch, and Calm Mind Hatterene provides entry hazard control and is just really a force to be reckoned with. Reliance on weakness berries means that you cannot cover all the threats you can, as Foul Play Kasib Slowbro cannot deal with Bisharp or Weavile, while Body Press Colbur Slowbro cannot deal with Dragapult, and both cannot deal with Dragonite or Garchomp unless it has Ice Beam.

Electric- Consistent firepower and pivoting makes this type really nice. It also has ways to deal with the Ground-types with Choice Specs Zapdos, Rotom-W, Magnezone, and Grass Knot. However, if you lose momentum and the opposing Pokemon sets up, its quite hard to come back out of that.
These types have glaring flaws and not much ways around them, there will always be bad matchups with these types.

Dragon- ID Kommo-o, Kyurem, NP Hydriegon are terrifying for a lot of types to face. Coupled with the fastest Choice Scarf user in Dragapult and Toxic Spikes from Dragalge, the pressure Dragon teams can exert is pretty big. However, Choice Scarf Tapu Lele is very common and types such as Ghost, Dark, Psychic, and Ice have tools to beat Dragon quite easily. Lack of longevity and good entry hazard control are also issues for this type.

Ice- Arctozolt, Heavy-Duty Boots, and SubRoost Kyurem makes Ice teams amazing against a lot of types. However, its balanced by the tendency to just roll over to the matchups it does not have an advantage against, such as Fire, Steel, and Bug.

Poison- Great defensive core that stalls out unprepared teams. Its quite similar to Steel in a sense that it has an immunity core and good Defensive mons, but trades the reliability of the Steel typing for Regenerator. Unfortunately, Poison can get pressured really quickly by Future Port, Ice/Ground or Ice/Electric coverage, Substitute Spectrier/Hydreigon/Kyurem, and Substitute Landorus-T/Melmetal, which are fairly common because Poison is quite notorious.

Steel- Another defensive type that would be as strong as Flying had it have an actually fast Pokemon or a good setup sweeper not reliant on just priority. Steel is also a notorious type so a lot of techs have targeted Steel, to the point that its just bullied too much now. An excellent type, its just that other types overly prepare for it so its...

Fire- In a similar boat to Fairy, except its weak to weather types. Volcarona and Cinderace are strong and Choice Scarf Blacephalon has a neat speedtier to start snowballing. However, since the most common coverage used is Earthquake, the Fire player might find themselves swept should a turn go wrong. Air Balloons and Shuca Berries help in that regard, though.

Ghost- Shadow Ball goes brr until it doesn't. Very few types have a consistent switch-in to Shadow Ball spam, but Ghost also doesn't have a good switch-in to pretty much everything either as Galarian Corsola can only take so much. Also, can get overwhelmed by entry hazards, particularly Toxic Spikes.
These types can handle a few types in the metagame consistently, but fall flat to a lot of types.

Grass- Ferrothorn-Cradily-Amoongus defensive core is pretty cool and all, SD Tapu Bulu can plow through slower teams such as Poison and Steel, Grassy Glide Rillaboom is a nice late-game cleaner, and Zarude has a nice speedtier. However, there is no switch-in to Physical Fire type attacks (Mega Venusaur was so much better than Amoongus), SD Tapu Bulu getting forced out by the fast Pokemon such as Nidoking and Heatran, Grass not being exactly a good STAB, being overwhelmed by NP Hydreigon and SubRoost Kyurem, and Zarude getting overworked just because of Grass team's generally slow Speed holds it back. Grassy Glide OHKOs Alolan Ninetails and Galarian Darmanitan btw :).

Normal- Heliolisk, Snorlax, and Bewear are excellent for Water, Ice, and Steel matchup, while Ditto is excellent in almost every matchup. However, its relatively slow speed, difficulty in Defogging, and prevalance of Close Combat (where Braviary is nowhere as good as Staraptor in taking those) keeps it from being amazing. Also, with only Diggersby and Bewear being able to break through Poison teams (and Taunt Obstagoon, should you want that), things are dire. Also doesn't help that Choice Scarf Indeedee's speedtier is mediocre and Normal teams don't have a switch-in to Fighting moves. The Chansey and P2 core is pretty annoying to break for a lot of types though.
These types are just for fun.

Fighting- Toxapex, Psychic teams, Fairy teams, Electric teams, Weather teams, Ghost teams, and lack of switch-in to anything makes Fighting sad. Unlike Ghost it cannot even properly wallbreak, though it does have Terrakion and Hawlucha, which are very nice Pokemon. If only Zeraora was an Electric / Fighting type, but alas. The powerlevels of Bara guys cannot compare anymore with the powerlevels of most types.
Rock- It has Stak. Getting walled by Slowbro, Toxapex, and Amoongus is quite an issue, but you can work around it by using Nihilego or Choice Band Tyranitar. After doing that you get swept by Urshifu-R's Aqua Jet. Or perhaps TR wears out and you find yourselves getting CC'ed or Earthquake'd to oblivion. Sad times. You don't even get to beat Flying consistently....but at least you do beat types like Fire and Dragon though.
Bug-Volcarona, Scizor are there to help but...its never quite enough. The lack of Speed and immunities is an issue, no more HP Ground makes Steel matchup a bit more harder, getting steamrolled by rain Water (unless you're running Water Absorb Araquanid, then you're losing to types with one random Fire-type Pokemon), having to time setting up Volcarona perfectly to win the Electric matchup, and Toxapex, Celesteela, and Mantine being annoying keeps the Bug-types from being top tier. This gen "helps" Bug by providing them Heavy-Duty Boots to protect their delicate feet, but these Boots also made their Sticky Webs less scary for a lot of types.
 
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Dead by Daylight

was a long and dark December
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I deleted my last list because it was completely inaccurate, so here's my revised version:

my-image.png


#1. Flying is quite likely the best type in Sword/Shield Monotype, and rightfully so. Its incredibly flexible team structure lets you run excellent offensive playstyles, culminating in it being nearly meta-warping. While Stealth Rock was a massive issue for it in previous gens, the introduction of Heavy-Duty Boots lets them soar as high or low as they want to. The one thing they can't do is stall, but nobody really cares about stall.

#2. Steel is a great type in my opinion. It practically forces some type of super-effective coverage such as Flamethrower on NP Hydreigon, Close Combat on literally anything, or Earth Power to defeat Heatran. But here's the thing: you can barely ever hit them with SE moves. Heatran + Aegislash + Celesteela/Corviknight/the occasional Skarmory let all three common super-effective moves do absolutely nothing, while Steel preys on unsuspecting types with its surprisingly good Attack and wide variety of team options.
#3. Fairy is an underrated type right now. Sure, it suffers from a massive Achilles' heel in the Steel-type, but it still does Dark and Dragon. Additionally, the Tapus have been a gift to them in USUM and now. Klefki (which I attempted to write an analysis about) lets it have easy setup opportunities behind screens, and resistances to Knock Off and Fighting-type moves let this type flourish. Not S-rank, though, because of those big artificial behemoths made of iron.

#4. Psychic, while still not at the absolute level of dominance that it was in Gen 1, is getting closer, although to be fair it will never reach the absurdl y annoying levels of RBY. It has good team options, decent surprise tactics, and that's really all I have to say.

I'm too lazy to do this rn I have to do another nomination for 10 Titans cya there
 

mushamu

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What caused Normal to drop off so hard? Losing Mega Lopunny was a big blow, but surely Fighting being so bad now helps it right?
Lack of team structure mainly. It loses to a lot of things: Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Kommo-o, Corviknight, other Fighting Pokemon, stuff like that. It can be used to fish for certain types like Water and Dark which Heliolisk and Bewear can beat but other than that it isn't consistent.
 

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