Pokémon That Are Clones of Other Pokémon

[bdt2002]

Happy Halloween, everyone. I've been thinking about something a lot lately when taking my everyday stroll through these threads. Have you ever stopped to notice that some Pokémon are just a little bit too similar to other Pokémon? Dare I say, reused concepts levels of similar? In other game fandoms, we see words like "clones" and "copies" being tossed around a lot with this kind of thing. For all intents and purposes, I'll be referring to some of the terminology from the Super Smash Bros. games, another favorite Nintendo franchise of mine, to explain some of the things I wanted to talk about.

See, the reason I'm making this thread is because I've wanted to try creating a list of all of the "original" Pokémon we've seen so far in the franchise- that is to say, Pokémon whose ideas, concepts, et cetera, aren't directly stolen from Pokémon similar to the so-called parent or parents. In the Smash titles and other games, we see the same kind of treatment with some of the games' characters from one entry to another. Sometimes repeated content will even appear within the same game.

Now, before I continue, I would like to make something clear. In a contrast to some of my opinions regarding Super Smash Bros., I do not think that Game Freak and all those other companies reusing ideas for future Generations to fill up space is a bad thing. In a few other threads in the past, I've even gone as far as to state my controversial opinion that the Sinnoh games stole a ton of stuff from Hoenn and tried to write it off as new. While I still stick to that opinion, I do not think this is inherently bad for the consumers who buy the games, as a lot of this reused and/or returning content or features may not have been available to newer players otherwise. For example, Pokémon Black & White introducing a Pokémon like, say, Timburr for example, in a regional PokéDex that only has newer Unova Pokémon in it is a completely valid design choice, as it would introduce those players to a Pokémon who is very similar in style and raising to Kanto's resident Machop family.

In the above example, I would consider Timburr's evolution line to be a clone (or I guess a set of clones) of those of Machop's evolution line. These are the kinds of things I wanted to discuss in this thread. I would ask about your opinions on how these kinds of Pokémon could stand out more from their original versions, but I'm willing to bet that falls too much against OI's rules about wishlisting, so let's just save ourselves the trouble and say that wishlisting for anything is off limits in this thread.

Aside from maybe some more Smash Bros. fandom vocabulary (notably the three different kinds of clones), I don't think there's anything else to go over with this introduction, so I'll get the discussion started with some well-known examples in the Pokémon community. Remember as always to have fun and be nice to others in... well, any thread, really. I'll see you guys in the discussion! Feel free to use my examples as a sort of format for you own posts if you'd like.

Example #1: The Pikachu Clones (Specifically the ones from Gen 3 onward)
Original parents: Pikachu and/or Pichu
Clone type: Semi-clones
What makes them clones: These single-stage Electric-Type Pokémon are all inspired by various rodent animals and yield some form of cheek pattern much like Pikachu and Pichu. Every clone in this category since Emolga's debut has also been a dual-type Pokémon. Coincidentally, the secondary types of Dedenne, Togedemaru, and Morpeko all match the types that were added in games after Generation 1.


Example #2: The Fire/Fighting Starters (Gens 3 through 5)
Original parents: The Torchic family
Clone type: Full clones
What makes them clones: All three of their evolutionary families function as Fire-Type starter Pokémon who eventually gain a secondary Fighting-Type in their second stage form, all of them gaining a Fighting-Type physical attack upon evolution. All three families emphasize Attack and Special Attack as two of their highest base stats in one way or another. Finally, they all reach their final evolution stage at level 36.

 

[SpiritGuy]

Example #2: The Fire/Fighting Starters (Gens 3 through 5)
Original parents: The Torchic family
Clone type: Full clones
What makes them clones: All three of their evolutionary families function as Fire-Type starter Pokémon who eventually gain a secondary Fighting-Type in their second stage form, all of them gaining a Fighting-Type physical attack upon evolution. All three families emphasize Attack and Special Attack as two of their highest base stats in one way or another. Finally, they all reach their final evolution stage at level 36.

I admit not really being conviced by this one and finding your arguments pretty frivolous, especially concerning Emboar who is more bulky-looking than the two other ones. 36 is a common level for a starter to reach its final form, and I'm not conviced by the idea that having good attacking stats as best stats is an argument for considering two Pokemon as clones. I was also surprised that you consider them as fully clones while you don't for the Pikachu clones, since they have a similar concept and inspirations while the starters you've mentioned no.

Considering Pikaclones, I pretty much agree with you, excepting the two last far-fetched arguments.

 

[bdt2002]

I admit not really being conviced by this one and finding your arguments pretty frivolous, especially concerning Emboar who is more bulky-looking than the two other ones. 36 is a common level for a starter to reach its final form, and I'm not conviced by the idea that having good attacking stats as best stats is an argument for considering two Pokemon as clones. I was also surprised that you consider them as fully clones while you don't for the Pikachu clones, since they have a similar concept and inspirations while the starters you've mentioned no.

Considering Pikaclones, I pretty much agree with you, excepting the two last far-fetched arguments.

I wouldn't really say I was trying to argue in favor of any specific type of clone for either of these examples. Emboar's added emphasis on HP sets it apart from the other two a bit, absolutely, but I just feel like there was so much similarity between the three of them. The family even gets Flame Charge to help remedy their lower Speed relative to the other two, now that I think about it. I can see where you're coming from with the attacking stats bit, though. (EDIT: The level 36 bit is admittedly not a very big contributor to the group being full clones either, but I had figured it was worth mentioning anyway since Sinnoh is one of the regions where each starter has different evolution levels.)

As for the Pikachu clones, I feel like there's just enough to differentiate them as semi-clones instead of full clones. They're still different kinds of rodents, even if they're all rodents, and if one takes into account non-Electric-Type examples that are frequently meshed in with the Pikachu clones group such as Marill (i.e. "Pikablu") or Mimikyu, the criteria for what makes a Pikachu clone becomes a lot more ambiguous.

At the end of the day, you did bring up multiple good points that I'll admit are worth taking into account. :)

 

[Ishiftyounot]

I'm going to ignore the typical clones you expect to see across the Pokemon generations - we're always going to have a regional bird, regional bug, regional rodent, pseudo legendary and Pikaclone - and instead focus on the similarities between Gen I and Gen V (Kanto and Unova), because I think it's fascinating and quite interesting how things were done!

The original Unova games (Black/White) were apparently meant to be a refreshing take on the Pokemon series, moving us away from our traditional staples of the first four generations whilst still keeping some sense of familiarity in terms of design and inspiration. It wasn't well-received at the time apparently, although now it's credited as one of the best moves Gamefreak made for the franchise. Funny how that works right? I personally liked Gen V from the get-go and to me represents a time where I became very involved in the Pokemon community via forums, beginning my antics in the competitive scene and where I actually began paying attention to things like leaks and reveals before the games came out - I'm still a bit nostalgic over seeing Blitzle, Munna and Pidove revealed earlier (which is weird, I know). I started with Diamond/Pearl so the similarities between Unova and Kanto Pokemon wasn't that big a deal for me and honestly wasn't that noticeable, and now I'm older I can see those similarities but there's enough differences (and dare I say improvements) that I still like that there's a clear link between design elements.

- early-game nightmare bat Pokemon

- three-stage Fighting type trade evolution

- three-stage Rock type trade evolution

- two-stage Poison type (w/ funky movepool)

- three-stage Water type frog

- single-stage Fighting type based on a particular style of martial arts

- two-stage Psychic type tapir-thing with a focus on sleep/dreams

- single-stage experience giving machine Normal type used by nurses/healers

- two-stage Ground type mole

- two-stage Poke Ball lookalike for in-game shenanigans

These are the above similarities I could find (there's probably more) and the similarities are pretty striking when listed like that. On the face of it this could be construed as unoriginality, but I don't think it's quite so simple - I think of it more as an illustration of Gamefreak's development mindset behind Pokemon between Gen I to Gen V, or their intent to create similarities to ease the fans of the original games into playing a new region devoid of Pikachu, Charizard and Eevee. Not everyone sees it that way though!

A lot of the time Unova Pokemon are direct improvements from their Kanto counterparts, in regards to design (which is subjective), in-game performance and competitive viability. For example - Conkeldurr is better than Machamp in competitive due to Iron Fist and access to Drain Punch & Mach Punch, whilst Machamp is forced to rely on No Guard + Dynamic-Punch to carve out its own niche (since both have Guts available as an ability). In-game Conkeldurr is also better - you catch Timburr before the second gym in Black/White which is a Normal type gym, and it comes with Rock Throw at level 16 in those games to combat Bug/Flying types that may cause issues. Machop in Kanto is caught in Rock Tunnel which is before the fourth gym, a Grass type gym. A neutral match-up until you realise Erika uses Poison types, and Machop only learns Fighting and Normal types moves (Rock moves come via TM/tutors, let alone other forms of coverage).

Another example (albeit a more balanced one) is Hypno and Musharna - both suck competitively and resided in the lowest possible tier available back in Gen 7 (RIP to Hypno making it into SwSh) but when compared together Musharna was still the better choice - more HP and Special Attack, slow enough to use Trick Room, learnt a healing move and could better use its stats to set up and deal damage. Hypno had better coverage and could go mixed... on base 73 offenses. Not even close. In-game you got Munna before the second gym again and could evolve it into Musharna before the third gym, with no competition for your Psychic type except Woobat (which is not very good, albeit is very cute). It doesn't do amazingly versus Lenora or Burgh but has natural bulk and reasonably strong Psychic attacks to alleviate some of those issues. In contrast, Drowzee in Kanto is caught just outside the third gym and will reasonably evolve by the fourth gym (on par with Musharna) but faces competition for your Psychic type from Kadabra (120 Special Attack / 105 Speed and is a Kadabra before you even caught Drowzee) and Mr. Mime (100 Special Attack / 90 Speed and traded experience boost) who majorly outclass it. The main upside for Hypno though is that Psychic types break Kanto with ease, and even a medicore Drowzee loves crushing Team Rocket's plethora of Poison types and lack of Dark types. Musharna though? Sandile and Purrloin + evolutions everywhere, Bite is on everything and you learn no coverage moves until I want to say the sixth gym for Charge Beam? Hypno gets Headbutt and can learn Brick Break for Magnemite if you really want it. Bit more evenly matched in-game, but competitively Musharna is the victor.

How much are these improvements down to game development between 1996 and 2011? Likely quite a lot, after four generations you need your new Pokemon to improve upon the old whilst still having their own distinct niches. I think Gen V did this quite well personally - as much as Machamp or Hypno or whoever else may not be quite as good as their Unovan counterparts, they're still solid and have their place in-game/in the metagame to the point where a lot of these similarities are negligible. I dunno, I just think the similarities are cool and it's a bit of a shame they had to make a BW2 to add older Pokemon back and we couldn't get more unique adventures with solely new Pokemon. Suppose in that sense, Black/White is my 1996 Red/Blue Kanto - just new Pokemon only and a fun adventure about to begin. Not to say the newer generations are bad without that, but eh.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

- early-game nightmare bat Pokemon

- three-stage Fighting type trade evolution

- three-stage Rock type trade evolution

- two-stage Poison type (w/ funky movepool)

- three-stage Water type frog

- single-stage Fighting type based on a particular style of martial arts

- two-stage Psychic type tapir-thing with a focus on sleep/dreams

- single-stage experience giving machine Normal type used by nurses/healers

- two-stage Ground type mole

- two-stage Poke Ball lookalike for in-game shenanigans

These are the above similarities I could find (there's probably more) and the similarities are pretty striking when listed like that. On the face of it this could be construed as unoriginality, but I don't think it's quite so simple - I think of it more as an illustration of Gamefreak's development mindset behind Pokemon between Gen I to Gen V, or their intent to create similarities to ease the fans of the original games into playing a new region devoid of Pikachu, Charizard and Eevee. Not everyone sees it that way though!

There are a few more imo:

- Difference between these two is that one is early game and the other is late game, but otherwise the similarity is there in that they are two-stage equine Pokemon with high Speed, good Attack, and okay Special Attack (their Attack and SpA in the end is the same).

- An aggressive Normal-type bovine Pokemon that doesn't evolve. Granted there are some differences but the intention is clear.

- Two-stage "jellyfish" Pokemon, both dual-typed Water-types, you can basically find their first forms all the time when surfing.

- A Steel-type "artificial" Pokemon, where they both are made of some weird mechanical thing and learn Electric moves. If you count cross-gen evos Magnemite is also three-stage since it gained Magnezone in Gen 4, which matches up well with the Klink line itself.

- Okay this one's pushing it since there are clear differences (Kanto's pair is three-stage while Unova's pair is two-stage) but these pairs are basically the "version exclusive" common Grass-type who reaches its final form via an evolutionary stone.

- This one is almost very explicit, and Clefable was a Normal-type before Gen 6. They even explicitly stated in interviews that Minccino was meant to be Gen 5's Clefairy. Pre-Gen 2 Clefairy was unevolved, and both of these mons evolve via an evolutionary stone.

- Aside from Pikachu's insane marketing, the elemental monkeys are very alike to Pikachu's function in the original RBY. The Pans, aside from the gift one in the first gym, are a rare encounter in the first forest you run into in Unova, much like how Pikachu was a rare encounter in the first forest in Kanto. Pikachu and the monkeys evolve once via an evolutionary stone, and Raichu and the Simis are statistically similar in that they have relatively even+usable offensive stats, weak defensive stats, and good Speed. Also they have decently wide offensive movepools and learn Nasty Plot xD.

Those are a few more Gen 1/Gen 5 expies I can think of off the top of my head. Some of them are pushing it a little but the similarities are definitely there.

 

[bdt2002]

I'm going to ignore the typical clones you expect to see across the Pokemon generations - we're always going to have a regional bird, regional bug, regional rodent, pseudo legendary and Pikaclone - and instead focus on the similarities between Gen I and Gen V (Kanto and Unova), because I think it's fascinating and quite interesting how things were done!

The original Unova games (Black/White) were apparently meant to be a refreshing take on the Pokemon series, moving us away from our traditional staples of the first four generations whilst still keeping some sense of familiarity in terms of design and inspiration. It wasn't well-received at the time apparently, although now it's credited as one of the best moves Gamefreak made for the franchise. Funny how that works right? I personally liked Gen V from the get-go and to me represents a time where I became very involved in the Pokemon community via forums, beginning my antics in the competitive scene and where I actually began paying attention to things like leaks and reveals before the games came out - I'm still a bit nostalgic over seeing Blitzle, Munna and Pidove revealed earlier (which is weird, I know). I started with Diamond/Pearl so the similarities between Unova and Kanto Pokemon wasn't that big a deal for me and honestly wasn't that noticeable, and now I'm older I can see those similarities but there's enough differences (and dare I say improvements) that I still like that there's a clear link between design elements.

- early-game nightmare bat Pokemon

- three-stage Fighting type trade evolution

- three-stage Rock type trade evolution

- two-stage Poison type (w/ funky movepool)

- three-stage Water type frog

- single-stage Fighting type based on a particular style of martial arts

- two-stage Psychic type tapir-thing with a focus on sleep/dreams

- single-stage experience giving machine Normal type used by nurses/healers

- two-stage Ground type mole

- two-stage Poke Ball lookalike for in-game shenanigans

These are the above similarities I could find (there's probably more) and the similarities are pretty striking when listed like that. On the face of it this could be construed as unoriginality, but I don't think it's quite so simple - I think of it more as an illustration of Gamefreak's development mindset behind Pokemon between Gen I to Gen V, or their intent to create similarities to ease the fans of the original games into playing a new region devoid of Pikachu, Charizard and Eevee. Not everyone sees it that way though!

A lot of the time Unova Pokemon are direct improvements from their Kanto counterparts, in regards to design (which is subjective), in-game performance and competitive viability. For example - Conkeldurr is better than Machamp in competitive due to Iron Fist and access to Drain Punch & Mach Punch, whilst Machamp is forced to rely on No Guard + Dynamic-Punch to carve out its own niche (since both have Guts available as an ability). In-game Conkeldurr is also better - you catch Timburr before the second gym in Black/White which is a Normal type gym, and it comes with Rock Throw at level 16 in those games to combat Bug/Flying types that may cause issues. Machop in Kanto is caught in Rock Tunnel which is before the fourth gym, a Grass type gym. A neutral match-up until you realise Erika uses Poison types, and Machop only learns Fighting and Normal types moves (Rock moves come via TM/tutors, let alone other forms of coverage).

Another example (albeit a more balanced one) is Hypno and Musharna - both suck competitively and resided in the lowest possible tier available back in Gen 7 (RIP to Hypno making it into SwSh) but when compared together Musharna was still the better choice - more HP and Special Attack, slow enough to use Trick Room, learnt a healing move and could better use its stats to set up and deal damage. Hypno had better coverage and could go mixed... on base 73 offenses. Not even close. In-game you got Munna before the second gym again and could evolve it into Musharna before the third gym, with no competition for your Psychic type except Woobat (which is not very good, albeit is very cute). It doesn't do amazingly versus Lenora or Burgh but has natural bulk and reasonably strong Psychic attacks to alleviate some of those issues. In contrast, Drowzee in Kanto is caught just outside the third gym and will reasonably evolve by the fourth gym (on par with Musharna) but faces competition for your Psychic type from Kadabra (120 Special Attack / 105 Speed and is a Kadabra before you even caught Drowzee) and Mr. Mime (100 Special Attack / 90 Speed and traded experience boost) who majorly outclass it. The main upside for Hypno though is that Psychic types break Kanto with ease, and even a medicore Drowzee loves crushing Team Rocket's plethora of Poison types and lack of Dark types. Musharna though? Sandile and Purrloin + evolutions everywhere, Bite is on everything and you learn no coverage moves until I want to say the sixth gym for Charge Beam? Hypno gets Headbutt and can learn Brick Break for Magnemite if you really want it. Bit more evenly matched in-game, but competitively Musharna is the victor.

How much are these improvements down to game development between 1996 and 2011? Likely quite a lot, after four generations you need your new Pokemon to improve upon the old whilst still having their own distinct niches. I think Gen V did this quite well personally - as much as Machamp or Hypno or whoever else may not be quite as good as their Unovan counterparts, they're still solid and have their place in-game/in the metagame to the point where a lot of these similarities are negligible. I dunno, I just think the similarities are cool and it's a bit of a shame they had to make a BW2 to add older Pokemon back and we couldn't get more unique adventures with solely new Pokemon. Suppose in that sense, Black/White is my 1996 Red/Blue Kanto - just new Pokemon only and a fun adventure about to begin. Not to say the newer generations are bad without that, but eh.

Now this is a post that I can get behind. With Black & White purposely designed to be this sort of reboot era for Pokémon, it makes since that we'd see all kinds of Pokémon who looked like or functionally are clones of older Pokémon by some definition of the term. I will also admit that maybe my examples weren't the most original in the world, but hey, that's what I made this thread for, to gather information on the less original examples. Referring to the Hypno --> Musharna example for a bit, these two had a lot more in common than I thought at first before reading your post. The way you described it, the biggest difference I could find in terms of evolution style was that Hypno doesn't require a Moon Stone, but then again, Gen 5 has a lot of stone evolutions to make up for the smaller amount in previous Generations.

This might just be my guilt-controlled nature kicking in again, but I apologize to any users out there who didn't really understand my original post that well or aren't really on board with what I was trying to do in this thread. There's no time for sulking about, though. I've come up with a few more examples in the meantime, my emphasis being primarily on the lesser known ideas.

Example #3: The Cave-dwelling Bats

Clone type: Psuedo-clones
What makes them clones: I know your post mentioned Zubat and Unova's resident Woobat, but personally I've always noted the similarities between it and the Dragon-Type Noibat. Things start out extremely similar in terms of battle prowess, the main difference being Attack and Special Attack being swapped for the two. However, that's where the similarities end, as their evolution families are extremely different from one another, both in terms of evolution methods and the number of stages. Noibat being a late-game Pokémon in its debut games as opposed to Zubat's typical earlygame nature is what solidifies Noibat's nature as nothing more than a pseudo-clone, if that. Oh well. At least they both learn Supersonic.

(Examples #4 and #5 coming later since I've got somewhere to be in a few minutes... geez this happens a lot lately in my posts.)

(EDIT: Hot dang, I messed up the formatting for Example #3 lol)

 

[Siggu]

- Aside from Pikachu's insane marketing, the elemental monkeys are very alike to Pikachu's function in the original RBY. The Pans, aside from the gift one in the first gym, are a rare encounter in the first forest you run into in Unova, much like how Pikachu was a rare encounter in the first forest in Kanto. Pikachu and the monkeys evolve once via an evolutionary stone, and Raichu and the Simis are statistically similar in that they have relatively even+usable offensive stats, weak defensive stats, and good Speed. Also they have decently wide offensive movepools and learn Nasty Plot xD.

If anything, wouldn't the monkeys be the conceptual equivalent of the Eeveelutions (albeit less ugly)? Three related Grass, Fire and Water-type Pokémon with similar looks and that all evolve via evolutionary stones.

 

[Ishiftyounot]

If anything, wouldn't the monkeys be the conceptual equivalent of the Eeveelutions (albeit less ugly)? Three related Grass, Fire and Water-type Pokémon with similar looks and that all evolve via evolutionary stones.

I think you're both right, which is fitting given Pikachu/Eevee are the mascots. You get a Pokemon early on who provides solid coverage, good offenses/speed, evolves via stone and it supports your starter like the Eeveelutions are capable of. Less choice compared to Eevee, but you can go hunting for the one you want in forests like Pikachu. Ironically enough in Kalos you find the monkeys and Pikachu in Santalune Forest?

Now this is a post that I can get behind. With Black & White purposely designed to be this sort of reboot era for Pokémon, it makes since that we'd see all kinds of Pokémon who looked like or functionally are clones of older Pokémon by some definition of the term. I will also admit that maybe my examples weren't the most original in the world, but hey, that's what I made this thread for, to gather information on the less original examples. Referring to the Hypno --> Musharna example for a bit, these two had a lot more in common than I thought at first before reading your post. The way you described it, the biggest difference I could find in terms of evolution style was that Hypno doesn't require a Moon Stone, but then again, Gen 5 has a lot of stone evolutions to make up for the smaller amount in previous Generations.

Example #3: The Cave-dwelling Bats

Clone type: Psuedo-clones
What makes them clones: I know your post mentioned Zubat and Unova's resident Woobat, but personally I've always noted the similarities between it and the Dragon-Type Noibat. Things start out extremely similar in terms of battle prowess, the main difference being Attack and Special Attack being swapped for the two. However, that's where the similarities end, as their evolution families are extremely different from one another, both in terms of evolution methods and the number of stages. Noibat being a late-game Pokémon in its debut games as opposed to Zubat's typical earlygame nature is what solidifies Noibat's nature as nothing more than a pseudo-clone, if that. Oh well. At least they both learn Supersonic.

Yeah there's quite a few similarities between Hypno and Musharna! I didn't really notice them myself until I saw a meme with the Kanto/Unova clones and went digging a bit. Biggest difference is honestly probably the movepool options and competition for the role - yes Munna needs a Moon Stone to evolve but you typically evolve it as soon as you get said stone (which puts you in the early-mid 20's for levels) since Munna gets Psybeam at level 11, Hypnosis at level 19 and then nothing worthwhile until... Calm Mind at level 35/Psychic at level 37. Not worth dragging Munna to those levels for better STAB (even though Psychic TM is postgame I believe?) so you just take the extra bulk and Special Attack from Musharna and watch it drop enemies. With that in mind you have both Pokemon evolved around the same time, if anything Musharna would do better in Kanto and Hypno would be solid in Unova? Kanto just wants you to spam Psychic moves and Musharna's bulk alongside 103 Special Attack keep it reasonably equal to Kadabra/Mr. Mime, whilst Hypno learning Headbutt + coverage via TMs mean it would do well in Unova where there are a fair few Dark types hanging about.

As for the Zubat/Noibat correlation, don't they have the same BST? As does Noivern and Crobat from what I recall, except Noibat lacks a Golbat stage itself to make it usable in the mid-game (which the Dragon typing does not save). It should've had Golbat's stats and stayed a mid-late game Pokemon who slowly gets worse until you get the Noivern evolution, but here we are.

 

[bdt2002]

If anything, wouldn't the monkeys be the conceptual equivalent of the Eeveelutions (albeit less ugly)? Three related Grass, Fire and Water-type Pokémon with similar looks and that all evolve via evolutionary stones.

Conceptually, yes, but the way I look at this situation, the monkey trio doesn't feel like clones of Pikachu or Eevee and its evolutions. Part of the issue with this comparison is that there was no Electric-Type monkey that evolves with a Thunder Stone. If we had Water/Electric/Fire monkeys in the same way we had Vaporeon, Jolteon. and Flareon, then maybe I could see the clone argument being justified. Instead, the monkeys seem more like a parallel to the traditional Grass/Fire/Water starter Pokémon trios, with a popular fan theory suggesting that they may have originally been intended to outright become the Unova regions's starter choices. Finally, while we have since seen Leafeon take up the Grass-Type role previously seen by the Pansage family, Eevee couldn't even evolve using a Leaf Stone into Leafeon all the way until just recently with Sword & Shield, likely as a stand-in for the lack of a mossy rock in Galar. Same deal goes for Glaceon and the Ice Stone, for the record.

Case in point, the only Pokémon mentioned here that would fit my criteria of clones of any kind would be Raichu and Jolteon as a set of semi-clones within the same generation, but even that would be pushing it a little bit.


Getting back to my list of examples, I have some more ideas that I'd like to bring up now.

Example #4: The Psychic-Type Ladies
Original parents: The Ralts family, specifically Gardevoir
Clone type: Full clone, specifically for Hatterene
What makes them clones: Okay, so this one's actually a bit interesting. When Ralts and its evolutions were introduced in Gen 3, they were still only pure Psychic-Type and didn't have a split evolution path into Gallade yet. Come Gen 5, we saw the introduction of the Gothita family, who carried a lot of similarities to the Ralts family at first, with the exception of Gallade's introduction. Both were three-stage Psychic-Type evolutionary lines whose final stages shared a distinct feminine appearance. Normally this would just end off as an example of a psuedo-clone at best, but three Generations later, things would get really interesting when Gardevoir's actual full clone was added into the game. The Ralts line had since become part Fairy-Type and gained a Mega Evolution that along with the rest of the mechnic did not return in Gen 8. However, the newly Hattena family not only shared even more qualities with Ralts's original family than the Gothita line did, but they both kept that added Fairy-Type and both end up with an extra form- Gardevoir with its Mega Evolution, and Hatterene with its Gigantamax form. Both evolution lines were prominently used by male rival characters as well, with Wally using Ralts and Bede using Hattena.


Example #5: Regional Variants Turned Semi-Clone
Original parents: Alolan Rattata's evolution line
Clone type: Semi-clones
What makes them clones: Pokémon Sun & Moon famously introduced regional variants into the franchise, with Alolan forms specifically going exclusively to Kanto-native Pokémon as part of the recognitions of Pokémon's 20th anniversary. Regional variants could technically be classified as clones of their original variants, with the Smash Bros. term "Echo Fighter" being a possible parallel to regional variants for all intents and purposes. Pokémon Sword & Shield re-introduced regional variants and added forms for Pokémon from regions outside of Kanto for the first time. One of these Pokémon, who in and of itself was already considered another regional Normal-Type rodent just like Rattata, also happened to get a Galarian form. I am of course referring to Galarian Zigzagoon. The latter shares many similarities with Alolan Rattata, including its typing and even a bit of biological inspiration, with both regional variants in this pairing having something to do with locations they are found in: whereas Rattata was brought to Alola do help with Yungoos populations, Zigzagoon's original form is supposedly the Galarian one. As early-game Normal/Dark-types, their battle strategies are predictably similar enough. The biggest difference between the two, as well as why I can't consider Galarian Zigzagoon a full clone, is because of the introduction of Obstagoon, who likewise did not have an Alolan regional evolution counterpart.

 

[Ironmage]

For the gen 1 to gen 5 comparisons, I would probably add

/ <-> : Two-stage pure Poison types that evolve by level and represent pollution

<-> : three-stage water type based on tadpoles and/or frogs.

When comparing Gothitelle and Hatterene, I think it's probably worth noting that they were both part of paired lines in their original games (Gothitelle has a counterpart in Reuniclus and Hatterene has one in Grimmsnarl). Ralts is the odd one here for being solo.

Speaking of gen 8 psychic types, Indeedee ends up with several similarites to Meowstic even if only the latter has a pre-evolution.

 

[Peridorito]

- single-stage experience giving machine Normal type used by nurses/healers

One funny contrast between the two is their rarity. In it's debut generation Chansey can only be caught in the Safari Zone, where it is an 1% encounter and can run away, and in Cerulean Cave, which is a post-game location. It's japanese name is even "Lucky", because you need to be very lucky to get one. Meanwhile Audino in its debut can be found in almost every single route in Unova in the shaking grass. You will definitely run into multiple of them while playing through the game.

 

[Ishiftyounot]

One funny contrast between the two is their rarity. In it's debut generation Chansey can only be caught in the Safari Zone, where it is an 1% encounter and can run away, and in Cerulean Cave, which is a post-game location. It's japanese name is even "Lucky", because you need to be very lucky to get one. Meanwhile Audino in its debut can be found in almost every single route in Unova in the shaking grass. You will definitely run into multiple of them while playing through the game.

That is a good point, and I guess leans into my discussion on the changes in Gamefreak's development ideas from Gen I to Gen V. Audino is worse than Chansey on all accounts except availability, where it knocks it out of the park. Ironically this is in-part due to Eviolite, an item added in the Black/White games. Let's Go continues this thought process even more - Chansey is found on a lot of routes as a rare encounter in the Let's Go games and is commonly recommended to be used for grinding purposes much like Audino in Black/White is. Heck the Lucky Egg (associated with Chansey) increases experience gains! Funny how that all works out.

For the gen 1 to gen 5 comparisons, I would probably add

/ <-> : Two-stage pure Poison types that evolve by level and represent pollution

<-> : three-stage water type based on tadpoles and/or frogs.

Not as many people focus on Weezing/Muk and Garbodor and honestly I think they should! They're all goofy in their own way whilst representing a significant issue in the real world. They also learn a wide variety of moves which is really cool - Muk learnt stuff like Mega Drain in Gen I, it and Weezing could learn Fire and Electric attacks (Muk also got Moonblast in Let's Go?) and Garbodor got moves like Seed Bomb, Drain Punch and Spikes.

 

[Pikachu315111]

is a clone of

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week (and afterwards). Try the Slowpoke Tail, it's a cut (from) about the rest.

 

[misterdarvus]

There is a peculiar case in video game to reuse assets. In 2D era, its recolor or alter sprites. in 3D era, its reusing of models, instead of starting from scratch. This technique is used to save development time.

As Pokemon jumps into 3D, there is an opportunity to copy existing a pokemon model, alter it, and call it a new Pokemon. For me, I think this is the particular Pokemon that not created from scratch




Also, you can design a base model, then create a two different pokemon, just like the latest box legendary

< these guys also looks like altered from

 

[CTNC]

Gyarados and Milotic are both sea serpent like Pokemon that evolve from pathetic fish and their base stats are the same but rearranged. The thematical difference is Gyrados goes from hilariously weak to devastatingly strong and Milotic's goes from completely hideous to stunningly beautiful.

Floatzel and Barraskewda are fast frail Physical attacking Water types with Swift Swim that were available early in their first games.

Competitively speaking, Salamence was used in Gen 4 and 5 Ubers as a second Rayquaza.

Mimikyu isn't a clone of Pikachu, but it's worth mentioning for the effort put into trying.

is a clone of

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week (and afterwards). Try the Slowpoke Tail, it's a cut (from) about the rest.

-_- If we're trolling with comments like this, Ditto is the king of being a clone. Ditto can become a clone of anything.

 

[bdt2002]

There is a peculiar case in video game to reuse assets. In 2D era, its recolor or alter sprites. in 3D era, its reusing of models, instead of starting from scratch. This technique is used to save development time.

As Pokemon jumps into 3D, there is an opportunity to copy existing a pokemon model, alter it, and call it a new Pokemon. For me, I think this is the particular Pokemon that not created from scratch




Also, you can design a base model, then create a two different pokemon, just like the latest box legendary

< these guys also looks like altered from

In my original post, I wanted to clarify that I am very much not against the idea of reused or "cloned" content in 99% of cases. (At least, not in Pokémon. Now Smash Bros. on the other hand, oh boy.) Alas, I hadn't thought much about a Pokémon's actual design until now. :D

 

[misterdarvus]

In my original post, I wanted to clarify that I am very much not against the idea of reused or "cloned" content in 99% of cases. (At least, not in Pokémon. Now Smash Bros. on the other hand, oh boy.) Alas, I hadn't thought much about a Pokémon's actual design until now. :D

I do aware that cloned content are groaned upon, as the aforementioned recolored sprite and moveset clones in fighting games.

This topic might be about pokemon architype for each generation (oh, regional rodents/birds/bugs! the three staged psychic! the pseudo legends!), however, my approach is from the development perspective for saving time to create assets.

At the beginning, pokemon was created from sketch and the game is in 2D, so I believe there are hardly any cloned design aside from Nido family. They are a pair of bunch of kaijuu inspired design thought. Lake Trio also one design spliced into three.

And the literal pallete swap I can think in the franchise is Plusle and Minun*.

I wonder when the franchise transitioned into 3D, the developers are saving time modelling legacy pokemon by importing another unrelated pokemon model but similar, let's say Meganium and Tropius.

*edit, I just remembered there are more literal pallete swap

They all share similar posing on their sprite! Even the elemental monkeys, introduced in the same generation, has the audacity to not sharing similar pose

 

[Samtendo09]

I do aware that cloned content are groaned upon, as the aforementioned recolored sprite and moveset clones in fighting games.

This topic might be about pokemon architype for each generation (oh, regional rodents/birds/bugs! the three staged psychic! the pseudo legends!), however, my approach is from the development perspective for saving time to create assets.

At the beginning, pokemon was created from sketch and the game is in 2D, so I believe there are hardly any cloned design aside from Nido family. They are a pair of bunch of kaijuu inspired design thought. Lake Trio also one design spliced into three.

And the literal pallete swap I can think in the franchise is Plusle and Minun*.

I wonder when the franchise transitioned into 3D, the developers are saving time modelling legacy pokemon by importing another unrelated pokemon model but similar, let's say Meganium and Tropius.

*edit, I just remembered there are more literal pallete swap

They all share similar posing on their sprite! Even the elemental monkeys, introduced in the same generation, has the audacity to not sharing similar pose

Well, you have an Illumise profile picture (likely a random Gen 5 sprite profile picture) yet I’m surprised nobody mentioned Volbeat and Illumise so far. Hang on…


Pokémon: Volbeat and Illumise
Generation: III for both Volbeat and Illumise
Concept: Short stacked human-like firefly Pokémon
Clone-E-Meter: Semi-clone, semi palette swap
How Are They Called Such?: The two fill- uh, similar firefly Pokémon are constructed to be in a generally one-sided relationship, with Volbeat being attracted to Illumise’s scent with the latter not aware or caring.

The two have the pure Bug-type, have the same stat distribution but with Attack and Special Attack swapped, near identical level-up movepool, similar cry and obviously a very similar design silhouette. It’s to a point they come off as too similar and become interchangeable most of the time (except that one trainer with a Volbeat in XY), and unlike Plusle and Minun, there is no Ability they have that grant bonus when both are present on the same side in Doubles.

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

Volbeat and Illumise are basically an instance of gender differences being split into separate species, like the Nidoran. They aren't so much clones as basically just the same creature in the first place.

 

[Siggu]

I wouldn't put the genies, the elemental monkeys or Volbeat/Illumise as "clones". I'd only mention Pokémon from different generations that have a lot of traits in common (and are not technically related, such as Hitmontop with the rest of the Hitmons, or Miltank to Tauros).

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Floatzel and Barraskewda are fast frail Physical attacking Water types with Swift Swim that were available early in their first games.

Actually funnily enough, aside from this, Galar's and Sinnoh's dexes actually have a few other Pokemon who are honorary clones of each other, albeit to a much lesser extent than Barraskewda and Floatzel. As for Barraskewda and Floatzel specifically though, they also share the same evolution level at Level 26.

- Two-stage Steel-type that evolves in the mid 30s. More of an honorary clone in that they are very different conceptually but they are that one two-stage Steel-type nonetheless, one also has "copper" in its name, and the other has "bronze", which is an alloy of copper.

- A two-stage Ground-type found in deserts that evolves in the mid-30s, and has an ability to summon sandstorms (albeit, Sandaconda summons one upon taking a hit, while Hippowdon does so as soon as it enters the battlefield). They also have high Defense.

- Very loose one too but a two-stage Grass-type found relatively early and has a unique ability, and evolves fairly early as well.

- The obvious "breakout" star of the regions, dual-typed awesome looking Pokemon who evolves from a baby Pokemon, and one is essentially given to you in their respective debut games.

Well, you have an Illumise profile picture (likely a random Gen 5 sprite profile picture) yet I’m surprised nobody mentioned Volbeat and Illumise so far. Hang on…


Pokémon: Volbeat and Illumise
Generation: III for both Volbeat and Illumise
Concept: Short stacked human-like firefly Pokémon
Clone-E-Meter: Semi-clone, semi palette swap
How Are They Called Such?: The two fill- uh, similar firefly Pokémon are constructed to be in a generally one-sided relationship, with Volbeat being attracted to Illumise’s scent with the latter not aware or caring.

The two have the pure Bug-type, have the same stat distribution but with Attack and Special Attack swapped, near identical level-up movepool, similar cry and obviously a very similar design silhouette. It’s to a point they come off as too similar and become interchangeable most of the time (except that one trainer with a Volbeat in XY), and unlike Plusle and Minun, there is no Ability they have that grant bonus when both are present on the same side in Doubles.

Volbeat and Illumise are basically an instance of gender differences being split into separate species, like the Nidoran. They aren't so much clones as basically just the same creature in the first place.

Volbeat and Illumise are an extreme case of sexual dimorphism in that they manifested a "male" and "female" variant of the same creature into two individual Pokemon. More importantly, they are really more than anything a product of their time. They were created in Gen 3, before the concept of gender differences in Pokemon were created, which didn't happen until the generation after, and the first instance of a Pokemon looking very different depending on gender was with Hippopotas and Hippowdon, and the concept of the same species having such strong dimorphism wasn't brought into full force until Gen 5 with Unfezant and Jellicent, and later with the likes of Pyroar, Meowstic, and Indeedee, the latter two bringing it further by having different movepools and in Indeedee's case, the same stats.

If Volbeat and Illumise had been introduced later, they would've likely been the same Pokemon with extreme gender differences.

 

[Chadlad50]

Technically not a clone but:


Come on...Alomomola is literally a Luvdisc evolution. I get they technically couldn't make it an evolution because of Gen 5's "Unova Pokemon only" thing but like, how hard would it be to make it a Luvdisc evo but just have only it's fully evolved form available in Black and White's main story? Talk about a missed opporunity


Not necessarily a clone either, but don't the Shaymins + Virizion look like a scrapped evolution line?

 

[Pikachu315111]

-_- If we're trolling with comments like this, Ditto is the king of being a clone. Ditto can become a clone of anything.

Fine, how about this then. Surprised when talking about a group of Pokemon with similar roles that the 600 "Cute" Mythics haven't been brought up:

The most notable shared trait between them is they have 100 in each stat. In theory this means they can have flexible roles (though obviously Typing, Abilities, and what Moves they have available would make this vary between them).
However with Diancie and Hoopa both having a gimmick to them it finally broke this groups tradition and they never went back.

As for Mewtwo, well, statwise he's SORTA unique but there are three other groups of Mascot Legendaries which share something in common:
Special focused:

Physical focused:

Like, I'll give them this that they at least don't do this pattern back-to-back (Tower Duo are an odd redistribution of Mewtwo's stats, Spacetime Dragons are both Special-focused, Mortality Duo share the same stats with one another, and the Hero Wolves are both Physical-focused). Still, I feel its common enough (heck, if I want to stretch it, I could say Mewtwo and Ho-Oh are Special/Physical counterparts and the Spacetime Dragons are counterparts to to the Hero Wolves. Only the Mortality Duo are unique... unless you count the third members in which case they're similar to Rayquaza & Origin-Giratina; Kyurem is similar to Altered Giratina; Base Necrozma to 50% Zygarde; and of course Necrozma, Zygarde, and Kyurem share a form changing gimmick (with Necrozma also sharing specifics between the other two; with Kyurem they both absorb the other members of the group giving them forms that splits into the special/physical counterparts; with Zygarde both have a "perfect" form).

 

[The Mind Electric]

- The obvious "breakout" star of the regions, dual-typed awesome looking Pokemon who evolves from a baby Pokemon, and one is essentially given to you in their respective debut games.

Got another one for this category, though it's not dual-typed:

 

[Scorpio]

Fine, how about this then. Surprised when talking about a group of Pokemon with similar roles that the 600 "Cute" Mythics haven't been brought up:

The most notable shared trait between them is they have 100 in each stat. In theory this means they can have flexible roles (though obviously Typing, Abilities, and what Moves they have available would make this vary between them).
However with Diancie and Hoopa both having a gimmick to them it finally broke this groups tradition and they never went back.

Fun fact: apparently the “Legendary Pixies” can be kinda connected to the five classic Chinese elements; Celebi is Wood, Jirachi is Metal, Manaphy is Water, Victini is Fire, and either Mew, Shaymin (more connected to ground-based plants as opposed to Celebi’s forest-theming), or Diancie (granted the stats don’t entirely line up, being literally a Carbink with +50 in both offenses, but it’s close-ish) representing Earth.