Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[Fire Fist Ace]

Got my 50 streak through an absolute fast, bulky, wallbreaking team focused around Kartana, Mega-Gyarados, and Garchomp.


Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike

Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SpDef
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Outrage
- Swords Dance

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance

The typing synergy between these 3 Pokemon is pretty good, and I went for as much raw power as I could muster. What ultimately ended me was a combination of KINGS ROCK Greninja (out of all fucking things I know), that fukt my Garchomp and a Passho Berry QD Volcarona burning and killing my Gyarados and Kartana in a fell swoop. If it weren't for the flinch hax, I would have won easily.

RIP streak at 56.

 

[NoCheese]

If it weren't for the flinch hax, I would have won easily.

Yeah, King's Rock is one of those items that is essentially worthless for you but is super scary on an opponent. Starmie4 is a long, long time nemesis of mine, and putting a King's Rock on something even faster than that is scary. Thankfully, King's Rock Greninja is a set 3 Pokemon, so you won't see it as often, but definitely a big streak ending threat there! Sorry it took you down, but congrats on getting to 50.

Now, an interesting question is how Greninja3 prioritizes its attacks. Water Shuriken is a multi-hit move, and Grass Knot is variable power, something the AI in the past has had trouble with. If the AI undervalues the expected damage on these moves and hence prioritizes Rock Slide in neutral situations (as the highest power move if you don't take multi hits or weight into account), then it's extra scary. Rock Slide spam + King's Rock = a whole ton of flinches. Yuck. In fact, the calculation skews even more towards Rock Slide thanks to the Jolly nature and Attack EVs. Boo.

 

[Siggu]

If it weren't for the flinch hax, I would have won easily.

Skill Link + King's Rock flinch haxing for the win :P

Unfortunately, that would mean using one of the following: Cloyster (struggles to set up in the first place), Cinccino (unavailable) or Toucannon (too slow) =/

 

[iVolke]

I call this set Turn and Heel, and its carried me to streaks of 54 and 46 so far.



The main strategy with this stat is to 1-shot anything that takes a SE STAB hit from Phero, which is honestly quite a lot, and from there potentially snowball without having to swap. Otherwise I U-turn on anything I know I can't 1-shot and let Toxapex and Celesteela double up on what's left. If they get walled, I sack the less useful one and bring in Phero again to finish off the offender. Celesteela covers all of Toxapex weaknesses (and vice versa) bar Electric and can stall out EQ, while doing a surprising amount of damage with Heavy Slam (STAB + heaviest pokemon in the game). Toxapex explains itself, very common set that has been very reliable.

First obvious point is that if Pheromosa goes down I get destroyed by electrics, I've been able to switch stall occasionally but my streak has been ended twice by a Raikou. IMO Pheromosa with pseudo-Moxie is more useful in battle tree as it outspeeds pretty much everything bar Accelgor already and its use for me is to 1-shot or U-turn. I take Wide Lens over Life Orb as HJK and (sometimes) Lunge 1HKO's anything that's SE, and in Battle Tree I want the best odds possible on a glass cannon. Second issue is my EV spreads are mostly just tinkering with what I've faced so far, and I'm sure they could be optimized a lot more. I used to run Celesteela with Flamethrower but the idea is with EQ I might be able to KO an electric in case Phero goes down, while still having coverage against Steels. This means I lose the ability to quickly drop bulky Grass types, but they've always been easy to beat with Tox/Steela switching even with Toxic/Leech Seed Immunities (Scald has much better burn rate than Flamethrower anyway).

My biggest issue right now is what to run 4th slot for Pheromosa, as I've found Ice Beam is unlikely to drop the likes of tanky Garchomp and Dragonite, so it seems rather pointless unless it's used later in the battle when the tanks have worn something down. However I have no idea what else I could put there, maybe Poison Jab? Other than that I just need to practice matchups more and know when I NEED Pheromosa to stay alive for later, and when I can use it as a nuke and let the other 2 finish off. That and get bottlecapped and better EV spreads.

I think Pheremosa could really use a slow U-turn or Volt Switch support. Ice Beam or some of it's other attacks may not be able to OHKO everything, but if you U-turn out and then slow VoltTurn back once or twice, it should bring the opponent into KO range.

I would actually use Jump Kick over HJK to get the 100% accuracy with Wide Lens because I just know an HJK miss will cost me a streak at some point.

 

[pokemonc]

Hi, I need advice on my team, I reached a 46 streak until a Wonder Room Slowking wrecked my team. I used the following pokémon:

(Lead)
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
IV: 0Atk, 30Def
EV: 252SpAtk / 252Spe / 4SpDef
Timid nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Energy Ball
- HP Ice

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EV: 252HP / 176Def / 80SpDef
Bold nature
- Toxic
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EV: 252Atk / 252Spe / 4SpDef
Adamant nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double Edge
- Earthquake
- Roost

I have had problems with faster SpAtk electric pokémon, mainly Jolteon and Manectric, where I felt I won those battles on a lucky whim as Toxapex cannot wall them and they outspeed the other two inflicting them a good chunk of damage on the switchout. Another two problematic pokémon have been Slowbro and Slowking, they have super effective attacks on my whole team and I don't feel I have the means to beat them consistently.

I was thinking in switching Chandelure for another scarfed special attacker but I can't think of any other besides Gengar and Alakazam which I'm not entirely convinced would make a difference as Gengar lost levitate and both are frail pokémon.

How could I improve my team?

 

[LucarioMega]

Tapu Lele has good Special Defense and can take a couple of hits from Jolteon and maybe one from Mega Manetric. Modest Psychic OHKO both.

I recommend running more bulk on Mence and make him the Lead. If you have a good matchup then set up, roost and sweep. If you dont, Toxa is a good switch 95% of the time.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Guys quick question.

Me and my brother want to tackle Multi-Battles.

That means:
DOUBLE the amount of Z-Moves AND Megas!

We can both acquire Mega-stones now but we are unsure how to use this amazing situation to make Battle Tree waaay easier!
We want to get so far that a battle gains you a Megastone lol

Any ideas what worked in past games in XY?

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

IIRC the least misery-inducing co-op teams involved Charizard Y in some form. Weather is still pretty good in doubles.

Having said that, I think Tapu Koko and some Electric Terrain shenanigans should be more than sufficient in getting you to 50.

 

[Nom4d]

I think Pheremosa could really use a slow U-turn or Volt Switch support. Ice Beam or some of it's other attacks may not be able to OHKO everything, but if you U-turn out and then slow VoltTurn back once or twice, it should bring the opponent into KO range.

I would actually use Jump Kick over HJK to get the 100% accuracy with Wide Lens because I just know an HJK miss will cost me a streak at some point.

Yeah I've often thought of how nice it would be to get Phero in for free without having to sack one of my other 2, I'll have a look at what has a slow Volt/Turn and maybe also patch up my Electric weakness as well. I think I'll still run HJK for now, as it's missed twice before and there's enough redundancy in the team to usually get me through. Definitely something I'll consider though.

EDIT: Looking at options I have a decent Gliscor from battling the Maison I can use. It has immunity to status thanks to poison heal and can be enough to switch-stall with Toxapex. It also has the ground coverage Celesteela has, but most importantly it has both Ground and Electric immunity so it can bait EQ as well as electric moves. Honestly looks like a 100% improvement over Celesteela.

 

[JesusFreak333]

Could I have some help with my singles Battle Tree team? I am quite new to team review and mediocre at teambuilding, so I would really like some advice! Here is my team:

Kartana @ Steelium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31/31/28/x/x/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
~Brick Break
~Smart Strike
~Swords Dance
~Substitute

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Impish
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
~Confide
~Toxic
~Soft-Boiled
~Growl

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator --> Shell Armor
Nature: Bold
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
~Withdraw
~Scald
~Calm Mind
~Rest

Notes/comments:

Kartana:
I guess I loved the idea of using such a high attacking pokemon in Kartana, so I decided to give it a go. I couldn't really decide on the coverage moves, so I went with fighting and steel--I didn't have many options as its movepool is terrible. Swords Dance is self-explanatory. I figured with substitute I could protect myself when at the +3 or so that is easy to get to. I am definitely open to changing this part of my team because though it may be appealing with its stats, Kartana doesn't have too much to offer with the moves it gets.

Chansey:
Ahh, the classic old growl Chansey stolen from Vaporeonice (with a minor adjustment). She does her job very well in either toxic stalling or lowering the oppenent's stats. Pokebank is not out yet, thus unfortunately I didn't have access to seismic toss. I decided to settle on confide. Though unusual, it works quite well with Megabro's Shell Armor. Because of the seismic toss nerf, it is actually viable to run charm with chansey, so I might try that in the future (though growl's pp is quite nice for pp stalling). I am also thinking about moving her HP EVs to her SpD EVs as HP investment only adds about 10% to her health.

Megabro:
The real star of the circus, his oddly-encompassing shell clothes and extreme balancing skills have gotten him far! Again, without pokebank he doesn't get access to iron defense. Thus came the seemingly useless beginner move you never kept. Settling seems like a common thing this generation, Gamefreak. Still it is (again) quite
useful in pp stalling water absorbers! Anyway, I decided to be simple with the EVs as I was still unfamiliar with some of the new EV game mechanics. Taking physical hits is basically his job so I decided it would be a pretty good spread.

Overall:
This team is designed pretty simple. Chansey takes the special hits while slowbro takes the physical ones. And Kartana picks off the weird mons? I don't know, I wanted to try something different. Anywho, let me know of any comments/mistakes/SUGGESTIONS/gripes/complaints/criticisms! Thx!

 

[Nom4d]

Could I have some help with my singles Battle Tree team? I am quite new to team review and mediocre at teambuilding, so I would really like some advice!

I don't have a whole lot of experience with Kartana, but isn't it incredibly fragile? I get its Defense is high but it has a low HP stat and 4x Fire weakness, which normally manifests as special especially as a coverage move. Its sub is also only 16 HP so is only worth if you completely wall what you're facing. I just think it would be really hard to get it to set up, though even at +2 it can sweep a lot of mons. My advice would be to try a Choice set or Life Orb and switch Swords Dance/Substitute for Leaf Blade and another coverage move. Leaf Blade looks great as it's your highest BP STAB move and Choice Specs will do big damage, plus you annihilate tanky waters/grounds. Or keep SD for a good matchup and run Life Orb, since it's coverage is pretty average anyway.

If you want to sweep with something fragile you really need something to support it like a baton+sub, Wish user or sleep inflicter. Even with the nerf burn would hit Kartana hard, and a lot in the Battle Tree packs WoW. Something like a Togekiss lead with Safeguard+Yawn would be a decent partner but that would mean losing Chansey which might mess with your core (though has the attraction of not needing egg moves).

Your other 2 mons look tanky enough that switching in a disadvantageous matchup for Kartana should be pretty safe, but you face similar issues to my set with switching back in without sacking something.

I guess I just feel Kartana has its massive Atk wasted with such low BP moves, seems like such a shame but I guess that's why you run Steelium-Z which is an interesting bypass. Other than that I love the Chansey/MegaBro duo, I'll have to try it out post-Bank. I won't bother commenting on EV spread as I tend to leave that to people who know better.

Also, what was the nerf to Seismic Toss as a side note?

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[JesusFreak333]

I don't have a whole lot of experience with Kartana, but isn't it incredibly fragile? I get its Defense is high but it has a low HP stat and 4x Fire weakness, which normally manifests as special especially as a coverage move. Its sub is also only 16 HP so is only worth if you completely wall what you're facing. I just think it would be really hard to get it to set up, though even at +2 it can sweep a lot of mons. My advice would be to try a Choice set or Life Orb and switch Swords Dance/Substitute for Leaf Blade and another coverage move. Leaf Blade looks great as it's your highest BP STAB move and Choice Specs will do big damage, plus you annihilate tanky waters/grounds. Or keep SD for a good matchup and run Life Orb, since it's coverage is pretty average anyway.

If you want to sweep with something fragile you really need something to support it like a baton+sub, Wish user or sleep inflicter. Even with the nerf burn would hit Kartana hard, and a lot in the Battle Tree packs WoW. Something like a Togekiss lead with Safeguard+Yawn would be a decent partner but that would mean losing Chansey which might mess with your core (though has the attraction of not needing egg moves).

Your other 2 mons look tanky enough that switching in a disadvantageous matchup for Kartana should be pretty safe, but you face similar issues to my set with switching back in without sacking something.

I guess I just feel Kartana has its massive Atk wasted with such low BP moves, seems like such a shame but I guess that's why you run Steelium-Z which is an interesting bypass. Other than that I love the Chansey/MegaBro duo, I'll have to try it out post-Bank. I won't bother commenting on EV spread as I tend to leave that to people who know better.

Also, what was the nerf to Seismic Toss as a side note?

Thanks so much for your input Nom4d! I'll change up Kartana and see how it goes! And as for Chansey, siesmic toss and charm are not compatible because ST is an egg move and charm can only be learned by Happiny. Charm might be better than growl because it -2 in one turn but growl has more pp for pp stalling.

And thanks Couer7! I guess I totally didn't sacred sword in his movepool! Haha i'll try a sash or life orb with more coverage moves. Thanks!

 

[pokemonc]

Tapu Lele has good Special Defense and can take a couple of hits from Jolteon and maybe one from Mega Manetric. Modest Psychic OHKO both.

I recommend running more bulk on Mence and make him the Lead. If you have a good matchup then set up, roost and sweep. If you dont, Toxa is a good switch 95% of the time.

Thanks for your answer, I'm trying to catch a timid hp fire Tapu Lele now. What spread would you recommend for Salamence?

 

[Doomsday94]

Thanks for your answer, I'm trying to catch a timid hp fire Tapu Lele now. What spread would you recommend for Salamence?

I have the Tapu in my thread.

Trying to sort out a team to grind BP, thinking of something like

Alakazam @ Alakazamite
Timid - Magic Guard / Trace
4 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spe
Psychic
Focus Blast
Shadow Ball
Thunder Wave

Magearna @ Steelium-Z
Timid - Soul Heart
4 Def / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spe
Fleur Cannon
Flash Cannon
HP Fire
Volt Switch

Marowak A @ Thick Club
Adamant - Lightning Rod
120 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Sp.Def / 132 Spe
Shadow Bone
Bonemerang
Flare Blitz
Will-o-Wisp

Does it look weak to anything really obvious?

 

[MKL122788]

I have the Tapu in my thread.

Trying to sort out a team to grind BP, thinking of something like

Alakazam @ Alakazamite
Timid - Magic Guard / Trace
4 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spe
Psychic
Focus Blast
Shadow Ball
Thunder Wave

Magearna @ Steelium-Z
Timid - Soul Heart
4 Def / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spe
Fleur Cannon
Flash Cannon
HP Fire
Volt Switch

Marowak A @ Thick Club
Adamant - Lightning Rod
120 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Sp.Def / 132 Spe
Shadow Bone
Bonemerang
Flare Blitz
Will-o-Wisp

Does it look weak to anything really obvious?

Can you use Magearna or does she suffer from "Event Only" syndrome?

 

[Doomsday94]

Can you use Magearna or does she suffer from "Event Only" syndrome?

I hadn't check, turns out it isn't. So I still need a third, as the Alakazam/Marowak core seems solid. Maybe Tapu Lele or Koko?

 

[LucarioMega]

Thanks for your answer, I'm trying to catch a timid hp fire Tapu Lele now. What spread would you recommend for Salamence?

I have been using the Smogon set. EVs: 248 HP, 124 Atack, 136 Speed, Adamant. Is very bulky and after 1 DD you outspeed every non scarf mon. DD+Roost+Return (If you want you can try Double Edge)+EQ.

 

[Laevus]

I have been using the Smogon set. EVs: 248 HP, 124 Atack, 136 Speed, Adamant. Is very bulky and after 1 DD you outspeed every non scarf mon. DD+Roost+Return (If you want you can try Double Edge)+EQ.

So i have been running MegaMence/Toxapex/Aegislash and i was wondering what spread i should run for Salamence. I have been using the return/sub/roost/DD Jolly set, but was wondering if i should switch it up. Or would Dragonite be better if i wanted to run a different Salamence set?

 

[pokemonc]

I have been using the Smogon set. EVs: 248 HP, 124 Atack, 136 Speed, Adamant. Is very bulky and after 1 DD you outspeed every non scarf mon. DD+Roost+Return (If you want you can try Double Edge)+EQ.

Thanks, I'll report the results once I reassemble the team and go to the battle tree again :)

 

[nasc]

I have been using the Smogon set. EVs: 248 HP, 124 Atack, 136 Speed, Adamant. Is very bulky and after 1 DD you outspeed every non scarf mon. DD+Roost+Return (If you want you can try Double Edge)+EQ.

This set could be optimized: 244HP / 124Atk / 4Def / 4SpD / 132Spd
Basically you can set up 4 Substitutes and have 1HP remaining and 132Spd to outspeed every mon up to 90+ base speed.

 

[Siggu]

This set could be optimized: 244HP / 124Atk / 4Def / 4SpD / 132Spd
Basically you can set up 4 Substitutes and have 1HP remaining and 132Spd to outspeed every mon up to 90+ base speed.

Why those random 4 EVs on Defense and Special Defense?

I know they are not much of a difference, but they could be put into Attack.

 

[Maunzi]

So I still need a third, as the Alakazam/Marowak core seems solid.

TBH I don't think the team is too good. Alakazam and Marowak as a core don't really cover each others weaknesses, so you can't really switch them around if they face a bad opponent. Alakazam is pretty much a glass cannon and because it's mega you can't even sash it. Focus Blast is too unreliable in Battle Tree, TWave doesn't do much. Marowak isn't too bulky either and it is pretty slow, so you are really vulnerable for all kind of hax with it. Lightning Rod doesn't do much, because you don't have any Pokémon weak to electric.
If you are interested in just farming some BP and don't care about too long streaks, I would suggest the old Gengar/Chomp/bulky Water core.
Gengar @Sash Timid Max Spa/Spd -Sludge Bomb -Shadow Ball -Thunderbolt -Destiny Bond
Garchomp @LumBerry Jolly Max Atk/Spd -Outrage -Earthquake -Poison Jab -Swords Dance
Tapu Fini @ Lefties Bold Max HP/Def -Moonblast -Scald -Calm Mind -Protect
Idea is pretty simple. Gengar outspeeds and 2HKOs very much and if it's low HP and can't KO the opponent anymore, it just uses Destiny Bond to take the opponent with it. In nearly all matches Gengar gets at least 1 opponent, in a lot matches it gets 2, in some matches it sweeps the whole thing. Garchomp is devastating after 1 SD, Lum Berry so you don't have to care about enemy WoW oder Confuse Ray users etc and Tapu Fini can tank things extremly well and can setup. And you can switch Chomp/Fini in each others weaknesses pretty good. But I guess other bulky waters would do a good job too (Mega Slowbro, Toxapex).

I have been using the Smogon set. EVs: 248 HP, 124 Atack, 136 Speed, Adamant. Is very bulky and after 1 DD you outspeed every non scarf mon. DD+Roost+Return (If you want you can try Double Edge)+EQ.

Thanks, I'll report the results once I reassemble the team and go to the battle tree again :)

Because the Battle Tree is Level 50 and not Level 100 you should adjust the EVs a bit. You would get the same stats with 244 HP, 124 Atk, 132 Spd, because after the first 4 EVs you need 8 more EVs to raise the stat by 1. So you can either put 4 EVs each in Def/SpD or put all 8 in Atk or Spd. Personally I would put 156 EVs in Spd (or 140 and Jolly, outspeeds Manectric4 after 1 DD), just because I don't like to speedtie with any Pokémon haha.

Why those random 4 EVs on Defense and Special Defense?

I know they are not much of a difference, but they could be put into Attack.

4 EVs each in Def and SpD gives you 2 points extra, 8 EVs in Atk gives you only 1 point. Also 1 point in Atk boosts your Atk by 0.5% (1 point out 200), while 1 point in Def boosts it by 0.66% (1/151) and your SpD by 0.9% (1/111). It just gives you a little bit more overall, when you put 4 EVs each in bulk compared to just putting 8 in Atk. If you don't need all your EVs, it's most of the times slightly better to cut 8 EVs from a stat and put 4 EVs each in the 2 stats, which don't have EVs yet.

 

[Anna says hi]

EV spreads at level 50 are not as simple as at level 100. Generally it's acceptable to lose 1 point in your secondary stat in order to gain a point in each of the tertiary stats.

 

[MKL122788]

Why those random 4 EVs on Defense and Special Defense?

I know they are not much of a difference, but they could be put into Attack.

It is basically just a math game, operating on the idea that +1 in two moderately useful stats will generally have more applications than +1 in your single best stat.

The Vaporeonice Mega-Salamence ran 4/252/4/0/12/236 as a lead. This ran at 187 speed.

Using http://pastebin.com/0QBULpdW from Turskain, we can see it takes 173 speed to outspeed anything after a single DD.

Probably, the easiest change is to go 4/252/4/0/4/244, putting you at 188, which is an unused tier. 184 is the next one you can use, which outspeeds all the base 115+ speed pokemon by 1. The only speed fights you sacrifice to this point are ones against Hawlucha and Salazzle. 182 is the last unused speed tier until 166 at that point.

The 183 tier has most Azelf, Ambipom, Starmie, and Raikou. It also has mega absol and mega houndoom.

Scarfed Rampardos is at 181.

The question then becomes what threats are you most concerned by after that. Mega-Lucario runs at 180 speed, but he is likely better off switch stalled with Aegislash.

There are so many pokemon between that and the next tier at 166 that I don't think it is worth pursuing any lower.

I'd probably stop at 184 if I were choosing. It makes things very simple. The stat build for that is 4/252/4/0/4/220 with 24 extra going into HP or SPDef.