Yes, haunter =) i'm the girl who beat ginganinja with specs Slowking and Amoonguss, and Chandelure too ^^
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Gimmicks and Their Role in the OU Metagame
- Thread starter Jukain
- Start date
@SnowCristal!, your Chandelure set is probably good with Haunter's HP Fighting suggestion. Great idea!
Hey that's pretty but isn't Hidden Power Flying a bit better ? Breloom can put Tentacruel to sleep or doing a big amount of damage with *5 bullet seed, it's better to OHKO him right off the bat, even at +2 Toxicroak is less fearsome and you can hit him reasonably well while hitting Conkeldurr / Keldeo with the same damageRespectable definition, thank you.
I thought of a cool one earlier and decided to test it out on the ladder, and it's not too shabby. It's netted a few surprise kills against its main intended target and still has some use outside of that one poke.
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 100 Spd / 252 HP / 156 Def or 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
Timid Nature or Bold
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Psychic]
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic
- Rapid Spin
I've noticed more Toxicroak on the ladder recently, and I don't know if it's just to counter Pony + Dinosaur or just a random increase, but I thought of a cool counter. Tentacruel is normally setup bait for Toxicroak, usually only carrying scald and rarely ice beam, but with HP psychic the tables have completely been turned (unless Toxicroak has earthquake for some odd reason). Exploiting Toxicroak's 4x weakness to psychic, Tentacruel can now deal a huge amount of damage to Toxicroak with no investment, and a decent chunk to fighting types such as Breloom, Keldeo, and Conkeldurr (without giving it the guts boost too).
The first EV spread I provided is a custom one I made to outspeed jolly Mamoswine, which subsequently lets you outspeed adamant Toxicroak and jolly Breloom. You can choose to ignore it and use the standard bulky spread if you'd like, as the loss in bulk is very noticeable.
Calcs:
0 SpAtk Tentacruel Hidden Power Psychic vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Toxicroak: 78.18% - 92.51% (2 hits to KO)
0 SpAtk Tentacruel Hidden Power Psychic vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Breloom: 48.28% - 57.47% (2-3 hits to KO)
0 SpAtk Tentacruel Hidden Power Psychic vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Keldeo: 28.48% - 34.06% (3-4 hits to KO)
0 SpAtk Tentacruel Hidden Power Psychic vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Conkeldurr: 28.99% - 34.3% (3-4 hits to KO) (watch out for sheer force T-punch)
With hp psychic you don't have to rely on the scald burn for Breloom and Keldeo, but scald is often the better option anyway just in case they want to switch out. Shows how stupid scald is, but I'll save that for another time. ;)
I really like SnowCristal's sets (watch out of this girl she's a genius)
and I just saw Goutland's Tentacruel
yeah HP Psychic sounds cool as an option to beat Toxicroak but I recommend you HP Flying to ensure the OHKO of some weird SDef Evsed Breloom
especially on this defensive set (anyway HP Flying, or Psychic at least, runs better on an offensive set max speed+ max satk @LO)
oh, outspeeded by Morpheus, nvm
and I just saw Goutland's Tentacruel
yeah HP Psychic sounds cool as an option to beat Toxicroak but I recommend you HP Flying to ensure the OHKO of some weird SDef Evsed Breloom
especially on this defensive set (anyway HP Flying, or Psychic at least, runs better on an offensive set max speed+ max satk @LO)
oh, outspeeded by Morpheus, nvm
I guess I'll make a post on the discussion point I brought up.
Gimmicks are not for those who value consistency. They're not for those who play safe. Gimmicks are therefore not for those who wish to play tons of games with the same team on the ladder. More often than not, you will end up facing the same opponent twice, and thus your gimmicks will be less effective. When they are predictable, they lose a lot of their material and intellectual value, as your opponent now cannot be caught off-guard and lose a Pokemon, nor do they think it is different than it is.
Despite this, I contend that the best gimmicks can work on the ladder with consistency. The Liepard I posted is as hard to stop when you know what it is as when you don't. Taunt + U-turn Hydreigon (while not strictly a gimmick) will always stop Custap hazard leads. Normal Gem Gyarados will always beat Rotom-W. HP Ice Terrakion will always beat Gliscor. If these were standard and to-be-expected sets, they would still be able to eliminate these Pokemon.
I'm not saying Scarf Breloom and Scizor aren't good, but they're not anywhere near as good when your opponent knows what they are.
In tournaments, however, all gimmicks work with few flaws. Since you only have to face one opponent, well, once, you don't need more safer sets. This is where your Flame Charge Chandelure, Specs Slowking, DD Latios, etc. can shine their brightest.
Feel free to dispute my points.
Gimmicks are not for those who value consistency. They're not for those who play safe. Gimmicks are therefore not for those who wish to play tons of games with the same team on the ladder. More often than not, you will end up facing the same opponent twice, and thus your gimmicks will be less effective. When they are predictable, they lose a lot of their material and intellectual value, as your opponent now cannot be caught off-guard and lose a Pokemon, nor do they think it is different than it is.
Despite this, I contend that the best gimmicks can work on the ladder with consistency. The Liepard I posted is as hard to stop when you know what it is as when you don't. Taunt + U-turn Hydreigon (while not strictly a gimmick) will always stop Custap hazard leads. Normal Gem Gyarados will always beat Rotom-W. HP Ice Terrakion will always beat Gliscor. If these were standard and to-be-expected sets, they would still be able to eliminate these Pokemon.
I'm not saying Scarf Breloom and Scizor aren't good, but they're not anywhere near as good when your opponent knows what they are.
In tournaments, however, all gimmicks work with few flaws. Since you only have to face one opponent, well, once, you don't need more safer sets. This is where your Flame Charge Chandelure, Specs Slowking, DD Latios, etc. can shine their brightest.
Feel free to dispute my points.
The 2 hit KO on Toxicroak in rain is extremely valuable and too much to pass up. With hp flying it turns into a pathetic 4 hit ko due to dry skin + black sludge/lefties, and they can switch out relatively unharmed instead of heavily crippled. Toxicroak wins out in the end if it has sub or sucker punch, as it'll just get to +6 and kill you with drain/sucker punch if you don't have hp psychic. Breloom is way easier to handle for most teams after sleep foddering due to it not having reliable recovery (outside of poison heal, which is uncommon).
Also, I don't see the value in running max offense Tentacruel with LO as Starmie does that job much better, despite being weak to sucker punch. I guess that's one reason, along with not being pursuit bait and the surprise factor, but with Tentacruel's typing and only modest offenses, it's better suited to a defensive spread.
Also, I don't see the value in running max offense Tentacruel with LO as Starmie does that job much better, despite being weak to sucker punch. I guess that's one reason, along with not being pursuit bait and the surprise factor, but with Tentacruel's typing and only modest offenses, it's better suited to a defensive spread.
Mew @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 124 Atk / 128 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- U-turn
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
I really love this set of Mew. I use it in a volturn team and it work perfectly. Why? U-turn > Volt switch for ground user, i don't like be locked on a hippowdon for example. Ice beam is amazing for dragons(100 base power of speed like Salamance) like Salamence, Dragonite and others. Flamethrower is for Ferrothorn(2hko) and Scizor(Ohko). One of the check of this mew was Heatran. Heatran after the scouting the of this mew's set was a perfect counter. So i placed EQ to ohko it and for magnezone too. With Synchronize i can send it on the toxic to toxic together the toxic user. A nice bait killer!
Moltres @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Sleep Talk
This is a wonderful rain sweeper. Hurricane with 349 Spatk and stab is hard to take. Hurricane+Fire blast work also in rain and with fire blast break the sunny teams. Roost for more staying power(for life orb too) and Sleep Talk is dangerous. It take the spores of Breloom and then the opponent switch out. In this moment the opponent take Hurricane/Fire Blast and for the Sleep Clauses breloom is useless. Moltres resists the 2 main stabs of Breloom(bullet seed and mach punch) and is hard to hit for Venusaur, Lilligant(eccept if it has hp rock) and others sunny abuser. Jirachi can't switch in on moltres because fire blast also in the rain is 2ohko! Moltres <3
Mew @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Barrier
- Stealth Rock
- Nasty Plot
this mew is really a good lead for any offensive team, it can setup stealth rock easily and then progress to support a special sweeper of the team, something like lati twins or reuniclus. it's really uncommon (i have seen it only once in a wcop match of taylor so yeah credit to him for this) but with its bulk it can baton pass at least 1 nasty plot and then a lati twins or reuniclus (or any special sweeper as i already said) are really hard to stop so give it a try i guess, it isn't bad as it could look and it can surprise lots of opponent as well (be careful at some roar / whirlwind mons though since they rape this set)
Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 96 Atk / 156 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- ExtremeSpeed
Nice Dragonite's set. I actually see Landorus-t lead with SR, Tyranitar or CustapSkarmory. Well that dragonite outspeed lando and kill him with Ice Beam, kill Superpower for ttar, fire blast for Skarmo + Espeed. With Fire Blast hit ferrothorn, scizor others switch in, with ice beam gliscor or bulky lando. With superpower blissey, who after scout ice beam and fire blast think what that Dragonite is only Special and take a great damage from superpower. Espeed is nice for little cleaning.
My main question is why not just run Choice Specs? I mean I'm guessing you're going to be asleep thanks to Breloom, so you may as well lock yourself into a move and get a 20% power boost. Roost isn't needed too much, and I'm suggesting you use U-turn or HP Ground instead. Other than that, I really like the idea of this set. Most rain teams have quite a bit of trouble with Breloom, and this is a solid check (counter with no SR).
Moltres @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Sleep Talk
This is a wonderful rain sweeper. Hurricane with 349 Spatk and stab is hard to take. Hurricane+Fire blast work also in rain and with fire blast break the sunny teams. Roost for more staying power(for life orb too) and Sleep Talk is dangerous. It take the spores of Breloom and then the opponent switch out. In this moment the opponent take Hurricane/Fire Blast and for the Sleep Clauses breloom is useless. Moltres resists the 2 main stabs of Breloom(bullet seed and mach punch) and is hard to hit for Venusaur, Lilligant(eccept if it has hp rock) and others sunny abuser. Jirachi can't switch in on moltres because fire blast also in the rain is 2ohko! Moltres <3
Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Rapid Spin
Under rain, this set of Tentacruel can be very tricky to deal with. His respectable 100 Base Speed united to Swords Dance, Rain Dish + Black Sludge and Waterfall rain and STAB boosted is able to inflict serious Damage and give to Tentacuel more staying power. Poison Jab is the second STAB move which allows Tentacruel to deal with Grass Pokèmon like Celebi. Rapid Spin is still a support move, you can even try Double-Edge.
snake (Thundurus-T) (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn
- Grass Knot
posting this because nobody has do this yet and i think that set has to be posted somewhere and this is the perfect thread to do it. this thundurus really wrecks, stab electric (use tbolt if you aren't using this on a rain team) + hp ice for generic coverage also called boltbeam, grass knot to destroy gastrodon, quagsire but mostly specially defensive hippowdon which can stall out thundurus with slack off and sand damage. u-turn deals with celebi and hits harder lati twins. nothing else to say, it's probably one of the best support for rain sweeper like keldeo or even starmie but it can be used without the rain as well. give it a try
I wouldn't say that's a gimmick at all. If anything, I'd call that pretty standard. U-turn is rising in popularity to hit Celebi on the switch (ever since Landorus-I went to Ubers), and Grass Knot hits Tyranitar and Gastrodon for great damage. What's gimmicky about this set again?
snake (Thundurus-T) (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn
- Grass Knot
posting this because nobody has do this yet and i think that set has to be posted somewhere and this is the perfect thread to do it. this thundurus really wrecks, stab electric (use tbolt if you aren't using this on a rain team) + hp ice for generic coverage also called boltbeam, grass knot to destroy gastrodon, quagsire but mostly hippowdon which can stall out thundurus with slack off and sand damage. u-turn deals with celebi and hits harder lati twins. nothing else to say, it's probably one of the best support for rain sweeper like keldeo or even starmie but it can be used without the rain as well. give it a try
When you playing a gimmick, please think about not being totally walled by a top tier pokemon like Ferrothorn...
Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Rapid Spin
Under rain, this set of Tentacruel can be very tricky to deal with. His respectable 100 Base Speed united to Swords Dance, Rain Dish + Black Sludge and Waterfall rain and STAB boosted is able to inflict serious Damage and give to Tentacuel more staying power. Poison Jab is the second STAB move which allows Tentacruel to deal with Grass Pokèmon like Celebi. Rapid Spin is still a support move, you can even try Double-Edge.
Well
Well, it's still gimmick. Before sending Tentacruel with that set you should kill Thorn and other Pokèmons that can wall him.
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Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 188 HP / 116 Def / 204 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Substitute
- Protect
That is a wonderful set of Ferrothorn. After sub and seed it is a annoyer of the choice items pokemon and with gyro ball ferrothorn hit the stat upper who think he can setup easy on this thorn. Protect + Lefties + Seed is amazing and force the opponents pokemon to switch out and to take damage for the possible hazardz. In an other hand this ferrothorn is bulky and thanks to Iron barbs it can defeat anything if is subbed! Really Nice set to use in a stall team!
Ferrothorn (F) @ Normal Gem
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 128 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Explosion
- Power Whip
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
The unique goal of this Ferrothorn? Set and explode! KABOOOM. Power whip>Gyro ball for hit hard Jellicent. After SR and a possible layer of spikes Ferrothorn explode and do a important kill of possible stat upper of the opponent's team. Adamant for max damage! Literally an explosive set
Chandelure (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Haze
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Flamethrower
One of my best set. The best Pokèmon vs the sunny teams. Why? A nice bulkyness and a wonderful type + trait. Dugtrio counter it? Error! Dugtrio do only 60 % with EQ and take wow and then Ftrower. Venusaur? No problem! He can take an EQ of +2saur. Ninetales? Walled! Volcarona? Useless. I reset its stat changes with Haze. And with sands? Ttar? Hippowdon? Where is the problem? Wow them and then use painsplit to recover important hp. Breloom? Chandelure resist bullet seed and is immune to Mach punch or focus punch. This Chandelure is very very powerfull!
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Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 96 Atk / 156 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- ExtremeSpeed
Nice Dragonite's set. I actually see Landorus-t lead with SR, Tyranitar or CustapSkarmory. Well that dragonite outspeed lando and kill him with Ice Beam, kill Superpower for ttar, fire blast for Skarmo + Espeed. With Fire Blast hit ferrothorn, scizor others switch in, with ice beam gliscor or bulky lando. With superpower blissey, who after scout ice beam and fire blast think what that Dragonite is only Special and take a great damage from superpower. Espeed is nice for little cleaning.
this works way better has anti lead specially weather:
Dragonite @ Life Orb
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk/252 SpAtk/4 HP
Quiet Nature (+SAtk,-Spe)
- Draco Meteor
- Superpower
- Fire Blast
- ExtremeSpeed
You mean to tell me you have to play a gimmick and play you're whole team around it to make it work ? No, this Tentacruel is not worth it, at all.
The role of a gimmick pokemon is to A/ kill his classic checks and counters and B/ be a bit threathening to the metagme, if you wanna be a lolhipster and using sets because they are original but bad, i don't get it.
The role of a gimmick pokemon is to A/ kill his classic checks and counters and B/ be a bit threathening to the metagme, if you wanna be a lolhipster and using sets because they are original but bad, i don't get it.
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earthquake
- Memento
this latios helps sun teams a lot. with earthquake it can bypass easily heatran without using dugtrio, hidden power fire hits other steel like scizor, ferrothorn and jirachi and draco meteor is a generic stab. otherwise memento allows an easier setup to a things like volcarona and venusaur which can setup their quiver dance growth respectively and sweep teams after heatran is removed (you can use hidden power ground volcarona, earthquake venusaur and even dugtrio but this latios often does his job so i'd suggest to not lose any slot both in your team or in your mons, using hp ground and earthquake always loses coverage on something else). nothing else to say, try it sometime